Old 12-05-2016, 10:16 AM   #1
Teddy
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Default Custom Web Interfaces

I've been playing around with the new web interface system this weekend, and threw together my own interface with a more traditional layout.

During the process I made some experiences I thought it would be nice to share. This layout includes some elements that I think might make things easier for other people wanting to make their own.

It's based on knockout.js
The code in the original index.html is kind of tied to that layout, with styling-javascript popping up in the middle of the update procedure. I've tried to decouple it, and use a knockout.js viewmodel for updating the view. This makes it easy to change the layout and styling without having to worry about things not functioning right. Play around with it: all the bindings I've set up so far are in "logic-custom.js".

Hammer.js for touch events
Although setting up hammer.js to work with knockout.js was a bit of a hassle, it gives you quite a bit flexibility. I made two custom touch events: tap and panupdown. The first is a click/touch event that works on both desktop and mobile (even androids shitty touch events are handled here). The other is used on pan and volume adjustment: Just drag your finger up and down to adjust the value.

Thoughts on the web interface system
I think this really is a step in the right direction, but it would be better if Reaper pushed values when they actually change through websockets. That way it would be more responsive and work more like OSC. And there should really be a way to tell if there is a dialog message in reaper! Now, there's no way to tell...

Does anyone know how to scale the volume adjustments correctly??
Adjusting pan are now much smoother than when adjusting volume. This is because when I'm adjusting pan, I suspend the updates from reaper and update the UI directly. I would like to do the same for volume, but I can't figure out the proper steps (the logarithmic stuff is throwing me off)... Does anyone know how to do this correctly? Now I send TRACK/id/VOL/+1 or -1 to reaper to adjust the volume relative to the old value....

Have fun. Hope someone makes something interesting...

Download it here
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/29089/reaper-mixer.zip


Last edited by Teddy; 12-05-2016 at 10:33 AM. Reason: forgot something...
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Old 12-05-2016, 10:29 AM   #2
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That looks fancier than fancy.html!
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Old 12-05-2016, 12:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
I've been playing around with the new web interface system this weekend, and threw together my own interface with a more traditional layout.

During the process I made some experiences I thought it would be nice to share. This layout includes some elements that I think might make things easier for other people wanting to make their own.

It's based on knockout.js
The code in the original index.html is kind of tied to that layout, with styling-javascript popping up in the middle of the update procedure. I've tried to decouple it, and use a knockout.js viewmodel for updating the view. This makes it easy to change the layout and styling without having to worry about things not functioning right. Play around with it: all the bindings I've set up so far are in "logic-custom.js".

Hammer.js for touch events
Although setting up hammer.js to work with knockout.js was a bit of a hassle, it gives you quite a bit flexibility. I made two custom touch events: tap and panupdown. The first is a click/touch event that works on both desktop and mobile (even androids shitty touch events are handled here). The other is used on pan and volume adjustment: Just drag your finger up and down to adjust the value.

Thoughts on the web interface system
I think this really is a step in the right direction, but it would be better if Reaper pushed values when they actually change through websockets. That way it would be more responsive and work more like OSC. And there should really be a way to tell if there is a dialog message in reaper! Now, there's no way to tell...

Does anyone know how to scale the volume adjustments correctly??
Adjusting pan are now much smoother than when adjusting volume. This is because when I'm adjusting pan, I suspend the updates from reaper and update the UI directly. I would like to do the same for volume, but I can't figure out the proper steps (the logarithmic stuff is throwing me off)... Does anyone know how to do this correctly? Now I send TRACK/id/VOL/+1 or -1 to reaper to adjust the volume relative to the old value....

Have fun. Hope someone makes something interesting...

Download it here
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/29089/reaper-mixer.zip
That looks great, Teddy Off to give it a try
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Old 12-05-2016, 02:09 PM   #4
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@Teddy
Awesome ! COngrats for the new Javascript interaction, and the style, it looks great !
Maybe you can propose it to cockos, or share it with Reapack

Just few ideas :
  • interactive buttons should have a custom mouse hover cursor (like link)
  • faders scroll with mouse doesn't fee right
  • -100 and over three digit volume value are not properly aligned. See here here
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Old 12-05-2016, 02:16 PM   #5
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Nice, I was wondering if it would be possible to use existing JS libraries, that's great.
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Old 12-05-2016, 02:54 PM   #6
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looks great. Can't figure out where to put it
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:16 PM   #7
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Wow. awesome work dude and excited to see such cool additions to the standard one already!

I'm wondered if anyone (maybe you if it's useful to you) can make a headphone mix one whereby you can pick a track, lock it and the see "just" the receives for that track.

That way anyone in the studio with there phone can get a personal headphone mix without me having to buy tablets for all of them!

Woo hoo!
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:40 PM   #8
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That looks very good !
Thank you for sharing.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
I think this really is a step in the right direction, but it would be better if Reaper pushed values when they actually change through websockets. That way it would be more responsive and work more like OSC.
I'd rather make the browser do more of the work... it simplifies the REAPER side of things substantially, and ultimately is more powerful (even if it's more work for the javascript author ....

Quote:
I would like to do the same for volume, but I can't figure out the proper steps (the logarithmic stuff is throwing me off)... Does anyone know how to do this correctly? Now I send TRACK/id/VOL/+1 or -1 to reaper to adjust the volume relative to the old value....
Sending +1 or -1 will update it by +1dB or -1dB, is that not working for you? A linear 1dB per ~7 pixels isn't a bad way to go IMO, then 700px gives you 100dB of fader range.
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:50 PM   #10
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@reaperblog
to install this custom interface, unzip it anywhere, (i have chosen REAPER UserPlugins folder, like for sws, reapack or lameencoder), and add a WebInterface in your Control Surfaces Preferences. You can add a custom path for it.
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
I've been playing around with the new web interface system this weekend, and threw together my own interface with a more traditional layout.

During the process I made some experiences I thought it would be nice to share. This layout includes some elements that I think might make things easier for other people wanting to make their own.

It's based on knockout.js
The code in the original index.html is kind of tied to that layout, with styling-javascript popping up in the middle of the update procedure. I've tried to decouple it, and use a knockout.js viewmodel for updating the view. This makes it easy to change the layout and styling without having to worry about things not functioning right. Play around with it: all the bindings I've set up so far are in "logic-custom.js".

Hammer.js for touch events
Although setting up hammer.js to work with knockout.js was a bit of a hassle, it gives you quite a bit flexibility. I made two custom touch events: tap and panupdown. The first is a click/touch event that works on both desktop and mobile (even androids shitty touch events are handled here). The other is used on pan and volume adjustment: Just drag your finger up and down to adjust the value.

Thoughts on the web interface system
I think this really is a step in the right direction, but it would be better if Reaper pushed values when they actually change through websockets. That way it would be more responsive and work more like OSC. And there should really be a way to tell if there is a dialog message in reaper! Now, there's no way to tell...

Does anyone know how to scale the volume adjustments correctly??
Adjusting pan are now much smoother than when adjusting volume. This is because when I'm adjusting pan, I suspend the updates from reaper and update the UI directly. I would like to do the same for volume, but I can't figure out the proper steps (the logarithmic stuff is throwing me off)... Does anyone know how to do this correctly? Now I send TRACK/id/VOL/+1 or -1 to reaper to adjust the volume relative to the old value....

Have fun. Hope someone makes something interesting...

Download it here
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/29089/reaper-mixer.zip

Hey, great work teddy !
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Old 12-06-2016, 02:49 AM   #12
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Nice.... thanks Teddy

using it on an iphone... works OK for a few tracks

I'm sure its much easier on a tablet sized device... but still with a little
resizing on the phone it works well...

Nice see the transport controls right there with the loop and pause buttons
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I'd rather make the browser do more of the work... it simplifies the REAPER side of things substantially, and ultimately is more powerful (even if it's more work for the javascript author ....
I don't mind writing the extra code to make the best of what we've got, but that's not what I'm talking about. Try writing volume automation and reading it back through the web interface. It's not a pretty sight... I don't see why this has to be that much worse than OSC. Unless this is just meant as a simple controller for starting and stopping, recording?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Sending +1 or -1 will update it by +1dB or -1dB, is that not working for you? A linear 1dB per ~7 pixels isn't a bad way to go IMO, then 700px gives you 100dB of fader range.
Yes, nothing wrong with the steps, but they are calculated by Reaper, so I have to wait for feedback from Reaper to update the fader. That makes it seem unresponsive compared to the pan, where I update the UI manually before sending updates to Reaper. So what I'm asking is: how do I calculate the 1db on my own, so I can send reaper an absolute value and not a relative one? I suck at maths, so this is probably an easy question for someone else...
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:35 AM   #14
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Are you sending REAPER a linear gain, Teddy? I'm not au fait with the workings of this to know, but I might be able to help you with the maths.

1dB gain change is 10^(1/20), or about 1.1220184543019634355910389464779

Multiply or divide your fader gain by this for each 1dB step.

Sounds like Justin has got it to take relative dB steps though..?



>
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
Try writing volume automation and reading it back through the web interface. It's not a pretty sight... I don't see why this has to be that much worse than OSC. Unless this is just meant as a simple controller for starting and stopping, recording?
You'll want to just smooth out the results yourself in JS.

Quote:
Yes, nothing wrong with the steps, but they are calculated by Reaper, so I have to wait for feedback from Reaper to update the fader. That makes it seem unresponsive compared to the pan, where I update the UI manually before sending updates to Reaper. So what I'm asking is: how do I calculate the 1db on my own, so I can send reaper an absolute value and not a relative one? I suck at maths, so this is probably an easy question for someone else...
Yeah, as planetnine posted, it's pretty straightforward:

Math.pow(10,X/20) = XdB of gain, multiply by that if you want to predict where the gain will be.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:22 AM   #16
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I'm curious, how did you install it? I unzipped inUserPlugins folder, in Plugin too, but nothing change. I have only cokos (index) interface on my web phone (WindowsPhone, use explorer i think), not your interface..
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clerks View Post
I'm curious, how did you install it? I unzipped inUserPlugins folder, in Plugin too, but nothing change. I have only cokos (index) interface on my web phone (WindowsPhone, use explorer i think), not your interface..
You need to add Web Interface as a control surface in Preferences, then point to your new folder. If you leave it blank, it will stay as the default.
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
You'll want to just smooth out the results yourself in JS.
Okay, but then everything would be delayed... I still think it's not a good solution. Guess we have to agree to disagree.

Thanks Justin and Planetnine for help with the volume math. I'll try it later tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym
- interactive buttons should have a custom mouse hover cursor (like link)
I can implement this, but didn't think it was ever going to be used on non-touch devices... Do you think that people will use it on a desktop/laptop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym
- faders scroll with mouse doesn't fee right
Yes, I know. I'll try to fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym
-100 and over three digit volume value are not properly aligned.
Hm. That's strange. Does it look normal if you make the height of the window smaller?
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:38 AM   #19
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Metronome switch need urgently )
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:37 PM   #20
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I wonder if this new web interface is of strategic importance for Reaper 6.

Like perhaps it's a stepping stone to a separation of UI from Reaper's internals to provide a full HTML5-based interface in Reaper 6. Then no custom theme language is needed, and a world of possibility opens up to themers. And, also, high resolution support.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
I wonder if this new web interface is of strategic importance for Reaper 6.

Like perhaps it's a stepping stone to a separation of UI from Reaper's internals to provide a full HTML5-based interface in Reaper 6. Then no custom theme language is needed, and a world of possibility opens up to themers. And, also, high resolution support.
Interesting thought but not very likely IMHO. At least there are no signs of that in this extension.
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:08 AM   #22
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what is the use case/cases for this then if is slower than a normal interface. If one want's simple interfaces for tablets isn't OSC available?
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Old 12-08-2016, 06:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
Do you think that people will use it on a desktop/laptop?
Yes
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Old 12-08-2016, 08:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tack View Post
I wonder if this new web interface is of strategic importance for Reaper 6.

Like perhaps it's a stepping stone to a separation of UI from Reaper's internals to provide a full HTML5-based interface in Reaper 6. Then no custom theme language is needed, and a world of possibility opens up to themers. And, also, high resolution support.
Personally, I don't support this idea. Nothing is smoother than a native interface. This would eat up CPU like mad.
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:12 AM   #25
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I feel like a turd because I can't get the custom interface working. I'm on OS X and have tried placing the folder with all of the contents in the reaper_www_root folder as well as the userplugins folder as instructed on this and other threads. On the control surface preference window, I cannot get the default interface menu to show the custom interface. If I click User pages or Built-in pages, it just opens up my finder window as if I'm cruising my folders, not as if it's waiting for me to select a directory to use as an interface folder.
Sorry if this is annoying for you guys. I'm just at a loss here and thought I'd reach out. Thanks for your patience!
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Old 12-15-2016, 01:22 AM   #26
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The "User pages" button opens the reaper_www_root directory. Put the custom interface there (they cannot be in UserPlugins since pre10) then copy/paste the URL from REAPER into your browser's URL bar and add the correct directory/filename.

For example if the custom index.html is in a reaper-mixer subfolder of reaper_www_root, the correct URL will be http://hostname:8080/reaper-mixer/index.html.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:36 PM   #27
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are there any other custom layouts? This is the only one I've seen
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:28 PM   #28
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@EpicSounds
I had a mod with track color but I think it get erased with an update cause I don't find it. :/
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:49 PM   #29
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Personally, I don't support this idea. Nothing is smoother than a native interface. This would eat up CPU like mad.
It wouldn't eat CPU, I think.

Either you run it remote and then it eats the remote machine's CPU, as it is running in the browser.

Or you run it locally and then it would be a piece of cake to let the browser run on a core that is hardly used now because REAPER runs mostly on one core. I think it would be easier to separate things out.

Or am I imagining things?
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:59 PM   #30
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Or am I imagining things?
There are lots of things that could go wrong or right in an arrangement like that. It might work really well or really bad. No doubt Cockos would need to leave the option of using the standard GUI, too many people would for whatever reasons say they can't or won't use a web browser based interface.

Some very potential problems I can think of right away are passing around audio peaks/waveform data, metering and 3rd party plugin GUIs. The problem with running the GUI in the browser isn't necessarily that the browser would use lots of CPU but much more likely how to efficiently pass data with low latency between Reaper and the browser.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:15 AM   #31
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Damned.

I was already dreaming about working with several people on the same project. Imagine one person writing notes for MIDI, while someone else is editing audio...
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:03 AM   #32
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Damned.

I was already dreaming about working with several people on the same project. Imagine one person writing notes for MIDI, while someone else is editing audio...
I beleive this could already be done using "the cloud" and sharing projects or sub-projects or something similar.
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Old 01-09-2017, 03:07 AM   #33
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Damned.

I was already dreaming about working with several people on the same project. Imagine one person writing notes for MIDI, while someone else is editing audio...
This can be done by saving the project into Google drive or Dropbox etc (as Kenny suggests) but it would ideally only allow one person at a time.

To have multiple people working on one project you could split the project up into "subprojects" so that there's a master project and then parts of it are rendered stereo versions of subprojects (read manual on them, very useful.)

Films are often done this way whereby the mixer can receive edits on dialogue, music or say SFX whilst still mixing the rest of the film. (subprojects can be multichannel so you can still leave it open for the mix engineer.

Another way of doing it is using track templates as these can be sent and merged with the master project. I think you even drag in normal projects and have them extract but I might be wrong on that.

Not exactly what you wanted but thought it might be useful info
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:21 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
I was already dreaming about working with several people on the same project. Imagine one person writing notes for MIDI, while someone else is editing audio...
A web browser based interface is not required to implement that. Reaper instances running with the current GUI implementation could just as well be connected via the internet for collaborative work.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:35 PM   #35
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Yes, of course you could use existing cloud services.

But I was dreaming about a client/server model, like the one used by Black Magic's Da Vinci's Resolve video editor.

The video resides on a server, clients attach to the server, download low resolution video to work on and only the changes are uploaded to the server.

That's a very nifty setup, as the client part of Resolve is free, so any freelancer can work with it and people learning the app can do so without investment in software.

The hires video never leaves the server, so it should be safe, backup wise, and lots of people can work on the same project simultaneously. They could even do let's say color correction simultaneously, as long as there is a way to reconcile the different changes they make.

And that's when a browser interface could come in handy, for lyrics or midi editing, fi, since you don't need a full REAPER setup, I think. And it should be possible with mixing fi, to transfer only changes over the net, making latency and bandwidth a bit less of a pita. You could even compare different mixes, from different people and inlcude parts from different mixes on the end result.

All it takes, is a system to separate changes from the actual data. And that system already exists in a very crude form, in the "undo" system...

The only thing that remains single user and local, is tracking, for obvious reasons. And you would also need a common list of plugins that are to be used...
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:11 PM   #36
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Does any potential moder feel the need for a web based nicely formatted visually human friendly version of the web interface moding doc inside main.js ?
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:22 AM   #37
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Does any potential moder feel the need for a web based nicely formatted visually human friendly version of the web interface moding doc inside main.js ?
I don't need it, but sure, that would be nice.

I think it would be even better to make a kind of "kitchen sink" of the web interface, where all elements are there with a good markup and minimal styling for people to easily change for themselves. My javascript logic (with knockout.js) were thought of as a starting point, but I don't have time right now to update it with the features it's missing. And also, I lost a bit of faith in the web interface. Kind of... :/
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:18 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddy View Post
And also, I lost a bit of faith in the web interface. Kind of... :/
Don't !!!
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:31 AM   #39
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Ok I made the online doc, it can be helpful :

REAPER Web Interface Moding Documentation:
https://github.com/ReaTeam/ReaScript...face_moding.md

This file is the content of the help in main.js file formatted into markdown for nice display from GitHub.

@teddy
Indeed, it may not be the the Online DAW that someone could dream on, it is just a remote controller.
But a pretty cool one !

Maybe we would need infos to be more accessible to allow simpler moding.
I created a feature request here :
Web Browser Interface - Track infos - Cockos Confederated Forums
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:08 AM   #40
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Seems like much is possible with web-interface.

But,
I can't see:
- Preroll options
- Rec-mode

These would be very handy to see/control from interface

Would like to see these added beside transport in something like index.html,
and value input for fader (as they are hard to operate.
Pan: L-C-R would cover most of my needs.
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