Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > newbieland

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-19-2014, 03:16 PM   #1
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default is writing great vocal lines magic?

is writing great vocal lines magic?
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 03:20 PM   #2
whiteaxxxe
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
is writing great vocal lines magic?
yes. obviously. listen to the radio and you have prove for for it.
whiteaxxxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 04:23 PM   #3
cerendir
Human being with feelings
 
cerendir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
listen to the radio and hear the lowest common denominator
Fixed that for ya whiteaxxe

But yes, melody is everything... at least if we're talking about conveying a musical feel and idea to non-musicians. Chords, scales, modes and time sigs will all trigger different subconscious responses in a listener. A good melody... that's pushing the emotional buttons.
__________________
mattiaswestlund.net | facebook | soundcloud | bandcamp
cerendir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2014, 06:46 PM   #4
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
Default

Not magic.

Just copy old hits.
__________________
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:37 AM   #5
hopi
Human being with feelings
 
hopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
Default

writing them is the easy part.... singing them is the trick
__________________
...should be fixed for the next build... http://tinyurl.com/cr7o7yl
https://soundcloud.com/hopikiva
hopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:35 PM   #6
martifingers
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
writing them is the easy part.... singing them is the trick
Hmmmm...Not sure I agree. Writing strong original melodies is hard. Writing strong original melodies that complement lyrics is very hard surely.
martifingers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 01:38 PM   #7
G-Sun
Human being with feelings
 
G-Sun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
is writing great vocal lines magic?
Yes
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
G-Sun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 01:47 PM   #8
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Yes
i agree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pczRdiwSa8

18:46 - 19:10
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 01:51 PM   #9
whiteaxxxe
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
Fixed that for ya whiteaxxe

...
well, yes, no, maybe. :-) is that so different from what I wrote?
whiteaxxxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 03:40 PM   #10
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

It's magic.
Unless it's bloody Aerosmith.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 04:21 PM   #11
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
It's magic.
Unless it's bloody Aerosmith.
lol

u like them or u don't?
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 05:01 PM   #12
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
u like them or u don't?
I've only ever liked one thing that Steven Tyler has been involved with creating. Her names's Liv.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 05:22 PM   #13
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Living on the edge has a great melody along with many other Aerosmith songs
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 05:46 PM   #14
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
I've only ever liked one thing that Steven Tyler has been involved with creating. Her names's Liv.
hahaha
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:00 PM   #15
Doughboy
Human being with feelings
 
Doughboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Gaylord Michigan
Posts: 1,696
Default

I think it is magical!!!
__________________
---------------
Doughboy
http://www.reverbnation.com/GregPillsbury
Doughboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:23 PM   #16
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

All art is magic.



Except Aerosmith.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:35 PM   #17
poplomop
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 201
Default

30% practice 50% inspiration 49% hard work 37% bad math
poplomop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:37 PM   #18
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poplomop View Post
37% bad math
Excellent! I'm halfway there....
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 11:59 PM   #19
Doughboy
Human being with feelings
 
Doughboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Gaylord Michigan
Posts: 1,696
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poplomop View Post
30% practice 50% inspiration 49% hard work 37% bad math

that.....is beautiful....sniff!!!
__________________
---------------
Doughboy
http://www.reverbnation.com/GregPillsbury
Doughboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 01:02 AM   #20
chip mcdonald
Human being with feelings
 
chip mcdonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
is writing great vocal lines magic?
Ho ho ho, you know. Never believe it's not so, it's magic.
__________________
]]] guitar lessons - www.chipmcdonald.com [[[
WEAR A FRAKKING MASK!!!!
chip mcdonald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 01:45 AM   #21
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
is writing great vocal lines magic?
Have we established that yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
yes. obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerendir View Post
But yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by martifingers View Post
surely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
i agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
It's magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughboy View Post
I think it is magical!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip mcdonald View Post
Never believe it's not so, it's magic.
Splendid.

Now, then....

Write the suckers early on, preferably as soon as the chords start to take shape, but certainly before you've listened to the riff (or whatever) so many times that this has become the melody associated with the song in your head, and you just can't think of it any other way. I once knew a duo whose vocal lines just followed the root notes of the chords exactly. They did not prosper.

Don't get hung up on lyrics. Sing the vowel sounds that seem fitting, and then write the words to accomodate those sounds. Make the words serve the music, and not vice versa.

Get random. teG modran. doGma rent. Gonad term. damn erGot. danGer tom.

If you're really stuck for inspiration, put a movie on in the other room, and wait for the score to start clashing with your song in interesting and unexpected ways.

If you are a guitarist, record random notes from a keyboard. Snap to the scale. Better still, don't snap to the scale. Steal the best bits.
If you are a keyboard player, buy a trumpet or something.

If you're still stuck, collaborate. Fresh ears are best for fresh ideas.

But really, to create great vocal lines, you must relax, switch off your ego, and let your subconcious take over and your spirit soar.
And that's what magic is.

Last edited by Fex; 12-21-2014 at 01:54 AM. Reason: yes.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 03:25 PM   #22
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,896
Default

100% magic
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 04:20 PM   #23
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
Default

It is about as much magic as many other human skills, like playing guitar, arranging a song, detecting bullshit, and doing science. That is, it requires a big foundation of work and education and practice, and then, when there is magic, you can say it is just magical!
__________________
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 05:09 PM   #24
Cosmic
Human being with feelings
 
Cosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Online
Posts: 4,896
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
It is about as much magic as many other human skills, like playing guitar, arranging a song, detecting bullshit, and doing science. That is, it requires a big foundation of work and education and practice, and then, when there is magic, you can say it is just magical!

Thats the long and short of it
__________________
it aint worth a bop,if it dont got that pop
Cosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 05:21 PM   #25
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
Default

Or you could be like Jon Anderson of YES or Michael Jackson and just have great ears.
Coachz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 06:32 PM   #26
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

i think magic happens when you actually like what you wrote haha
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 07:35 PM   #27
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

I think magic happens when you really like what you wrote, and you wonder who wrote it, and how.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 07:39 PM   #28
Garrick
Human being with feelings
 
Garrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wellington
Posts: 4,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
I think magic happens when you really like what you wrote, and you wonder who wrote it, and how.
Spot on
Garrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #29
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

haha yep!! better said Fex
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 02:55 PM   #30
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

I was messing around with 'Rolling in the Deep' today.

If you loop it in just the right place, Adele sings 'Rolling in the Dough' again and and again and again. And she is. That's some ju ju right there.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 03:32 PM   #31
Fergler
Human being with feelings
 
Fergler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,205
Default

For me the magic is when the lyrics and the instrumentation make sense together. This happens so rarely for me.

My biggest problem is that the lyrics are usually written with a melody instantly given to them, which never leaves my head. For this I should be fortunate. Except that, when I jam stuff on guitar and create guitar songs, no lyrics ever come to go over top and it never works to try to shove existing lyrics onto it.

I have a dual-personality in songwriting, my lyrics-first songs don't sound anything like my guitar-first songs. Marrying the two has been really hard.
Fergler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 05:45 PM   #32
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
I have a dual-personality in songwriting, my lyrics-first songs don't sound anything like my guitar-first songs. Marrying the two has been really hard.
I hear that, and can relate to that. I wonder if part of the solution is to rely more on YOUR own style and judgment, and not relying on what other expect, or what the genre prescribes. Let your music and words be your music and words.
__________________
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 08:07 PM   #33
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Quote:
I have a dual-personality in songwriting, my lyrics-first songs don't sound anything like my guitar-first songs. Marrying the two has been really hard.
May I ask a question about the above? Is your guitar stuff riff oriented? If so, that might be part of the problem. Not that you'll care but even great riffs have underlying chords. I only offer that because if this is the case, you can fix that problem by coming up with chords/melodies then finding riffs for those or the opposite, find the underlying chords for the riff, ditch the riff while you work on melody/lyric than add the riff back. I've always found it incredibly difficult to write a riff/melody/lyric. Much better to find a chord/melody combo and riff it out later. YMMV
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 10:46 PM   #34
hopi
Human being with feelings
 
hopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 15,618
Default

do you believe in magic?


[lovin' spoonful]
__________________
...should be fixed for the next build... http://tinyurl.com/cr7o7yl
https://soundcloud.com/hopikiva
hopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2014, 11:40 PM   #35
pixeltarian
Human being with feelings
 
pixeltarian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
Default

Yes. Also, I am magic.
You are too.
pixeltarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 01:18 PM   #36
for
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,384
Default

wanted to bring this up also...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adaPv2-Ud6E 0:35

singer of goo goo dolls talking about writing his biggest hit song iris stating in this interview that people were saying to him do it again, write another one like this but he states simply "i don't know how to do it again", he's really honest

We take it for granted that big artists will come up with a hit one after the other. If they did it once, they will probably will do it again, but is this always the case? not sure.
for is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2015, 03:27 PM   #37
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by for View Post
We take it for granted that big artists will come up with a hit one after the other. If they did it once, they will probably will do it again, but is this always the case? not sure.
There have been many, many one-hit wonders, big stars for fifteen minutes.

One of the more popular of my tunes (not my favourite, but one of the best, I guess) I wrote by trying to play something I couldn't play, then by writing it into the sort of chord progression that I wouldn't write, using the chords that I would use, but in a way that I wouldn't use them....

Well, I don't see how I can ever do that again.

I have dreamt other good tunes. I have little control over that sort of thing.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2015, 11:27 AM   #38
rothchild
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 784
Default

Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. P.Picasso
rothchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2015, 03:53 PM   #39
whiteaxxxe
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rothchild View Post
P.Picasso
wiseass.
whiteaxxxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2015, 01:38 PM   #40
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
Default where did Dylan's songs come from?

Check out Bob Dylan talking about writing songs
at the Grammys.
[not that he wrote any songs there...]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...n-20150207.pdf
__________________
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.