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Old 05-21-2015, 01:46 PM   #41
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I like the update but I'm on the fence on whether to bite. The scratch pad is elegant, it's basically a split arrangement where you can work on a region, trying out alternative ideas.

On the down side working on the tempo map sucks but I'm starting to think tempo maps on any daw is asking for trouble by adding another layer of complexity, one more thing that can go wrong.

The mixer has improved but I personally have never warmed to it
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:53 PM   #42
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Wasnt expecting all these responses lol. I still havent tried the S1V3 demo. I think im going to pass. Im deep into reaper as my main DAW! Im was just curious cause i almost switched to studio one awhile back. All im reading are mixed reviews and nothing is really making me pull the trigger. Oh well, guess that was short-lived! now we can look forward to Reaper 5 and maybe the devs can sneak some more new features before its official release. Im currently wrapping up my newest project in reaper so i have no time looking at other DAWS right now. Good luck to everyone out there! #ReaperGang
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:24 PM   #43
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Actually now I'm changing my mind. I hate it. It has all the bells and whistles but it's just an app in worship of it self, the included instruments sound like cheese to my ears and the included coffee maker smacks of a cakewalk promotional video.
My GAS is cured.
All I want to do is lay down my awesomeness and waltz up and collect the Grammy, collect $200 as I pass go.

There's something and I can't put my finger on it, that puts me off studio one v3 and it's the same feeling you get in the face of a pushy salesman.


Sigh

George Martin would have used Reaper.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:55 PM   #44
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^^^ Best post ever. ^^^.

As to the instruments, not disagreeing with your impression, but if you haven't bitten yet how did you demo or hear them only being downloads to people who purchased? Are they letting demo users download some the new content? (Just asking since I don't know)

Anyway, I do agree with MN. This particular update was clearly aimed at electronic music producers, not exactly my demographic, but I get it.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:31 PM   #45
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^^^ Best post ever. ^^^.

As to the instruments, not disagreeing with your impression, but if you haven't bitten yet how did you demo or hear them only being downloads to people who purchased? Are they letting demo users download some the new content? (Just asking since I don't know)

Anyway, I do agree with MN. This particular update was clearly aimed at electronic music producers, not exactly my demographic, but I get it.
no and good point Lawrence. I tried out the demo which you don't have the full instruments. I thought whoa reasons instruments are better for what I'm looking for. So I listened to the presets in the presence video. It was like listening to a cartoon. Now I understand why cockos won't do their own instruments. It's such a specialist area.

I think it would have served presonus better to improve s1 in smaller increments and then listen to us moan and grown instead of a big update with their best guesses. Presonus should have not been so coy.

Bigger businesses like to give their marketing department good fodder but really.
Lawrence you do this as a day job, I do this as a home hobbyist. We both think the product should sell it self.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:40 PM   #46
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I hear you. I find mostly ignoring marketing is the best path. The only way to really know how well you like something or not is to use it, imo, mmv.

Having said that, we all know the world doesn't work that way. i'm still completely baffled by the regular cycle of people spending hundreds of dollars to buy something (software that is, when a demo is easy to get) they've never even touched yet... and then whine like total babies when it all doesn't work out perfectly.

That mystery, to me, is up there with "who killed Biggie Smalls".

Baffling. To me, anyway.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:48 PM   #47
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Being a long time Studio One user, the last update made me come back to Reaper.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:59 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I hear you. I find mostly ignoring marketing is the best path. The only way to really know how well you like something or not is to use it, imo, mmv.

Having said that, we all know the world doesn't work that way. i'm still completely baffled by the regular cycle of people spending hundreds of dollars to buy something (software that is, when a demo is easy to get) they've never even touched yet... and then whine like total babies when it all doesn't work out perfectly.

That mystery, to me, is up there with "who killed Biggie Smalls".

Baffling. To me, anyway.
Ha ha
You're probably right, the style of marketing made me kind of vehement of all of a sudden.

I do hate being told what to feel
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:03 PM   #49
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Being a long time Studio One user, the last update made me come back to Reaper.
perfect timing

While I'm on my rant.

What are your reasons?
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:06 PM   #50
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I bought the upgrade yesterday—as the Presonus Live crew stirred all of us to do on cue.

I have issues with it on various levels. But I won't get into it. Okay, just a little.

The GUI bugs me. It's flat and featureless. The lack of contrast in the default theme makes it harder to work with the controls. Some of this can be adjusted, but not the actual graphics. Ugh.

The Scratch Pad is crashing for me and a few others, various issues for other users.

However, like anything else, it's something new and we all like "new," don't we?

The company is solid and I think they'll come around to appeasing some of us who are whining the loudest about the drastic visual change. As for the bugs, they'll all get fixed. One hopes.

But let it be said that some new features for Studio One are old standards for Reaper. Someone buy those Cockos guys a beer and a pretzel !
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:14 PM   #51
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Lawrence I had to look up"biggie smalls"

It might have not helped that his debut album was entitled"ready to die".

Think John Lennon singing"shot me" on "come together"
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Kundalinguist View Post
I bought the upgrade yesterday—as the Presonus Live crew stirred all of us to do on cue.

I have issues with it on various levels. But I won't get into it. Okay, just a little.

The GUI bugs me. It's flat and featureless. The lack of contrast in the default theme makes it harder to work with the controls. Some of this can be adjusted, but not the actual graphics. Ugh.

The Scratch Pad is crashing for me and a few others, various issues for other users.

However, like anything else, it's something new and we all like "new," don't we?

The company is solid and I think they'll come around to appeasing some of us who are whining the loudest about the drastic visual change. As for the bugs, they'll all get fixed. One hopes.

But let it be said that some new features for Studio One are old standards for Reaper. Someone buy those Cockos guys a beer and a pretzel !
There are a few posts on the scratch pad crashing the app. For me it worked fine and no crashes on 64 bi win.

One thing to watch out for, if you have a tempo map in s1v3 make sure the the arraignment section is in timebase time when replacing from scratch pad to main arraignment.

Forgive the spelling
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Old 05-21-2015, 06:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I hear you. I find mostly ignoring marketing is the best path. The only way to really know how well you like something or not is to use it, imo, mmv.

Having said that, we all know the world doesn't work that way. i'm still completely baffled by the regular cycle of people spending hundreds of dollars to buy something (software that is, when a demo is easy to get) they've never even touched yet... and then whine like total babies when it all doesn't work out perfectly.

That mystery, to me, is up there with "who killed Biggie Smalls".

Baffling. To me, anyway.
The only caveat is when the features that are the selling point don't work as advertised, which happens a lot in any DAW, especially when a new version hits. I think as a loyal customer, many of us buy assuming that we are getting equal or greater than we had before. When that perception is not met…well…we whine.

(I didn't even know a demo existed. In my account, it just showed me which version to "buy." Marketing also doesn't make a big deal of demos when they'd rather have the sale, regardless of the aftermath.)

P.S. Biggie is still alive and renting a room from Elvis. They send everyone their best.
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Old 05-21-2015, 07:35 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrick View Post
perfect timing

While I'm on my rant.

What are your reasons?
Performance: While it's reasonable to have issues arising with a large release, S1 v3 took a long a time, so long that as an user I expect a little polish under the hood. Mai Tai, the new synth, is a real resource hog. Also, old projects in general use more system resources in v3 compared to v2.

The new UI: while being able to change color is really neat, the UI as a whole looks unpolished and inconsistent. This was one of S1 strong points, but v3 is a step backwards.

No VST bridging: This is the main reason I returned to Reaper, the internal 32/64 bits bridging. Being a long sought feature by some, Presonus completely ignored it. Even damn Mixcraft has it.

No Producer edition: v2 had 3 versions -> Artist, Producer and Professional, while v3 only has Artist and Professional. The only option for us Hobbyist owning a Producer copy is to upgrade to Professional, which costs $200.

Slow development cycle: new versions, even little upgrades, take ages, and Presonus is ignoring the userbase not only when it comes to new features, but also some long lasting bugs that are periodically reported in the forums. This is the second main reason I returned to Reaper, as I see how it periodically improves, as a program and as a community. The ammount of resource in this forum and in the stash is overwhelming.
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:19 PM   #55
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Also, seems that they did absolutely nothing as far as CPU efficiency is concerned.
Very true:

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Old 05-21-2015, 09:06 PM   #56
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Very true:

WTF?
try using the windows performance meter
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Old 05-21-2015, 09:50 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Anyway, I do agree with MN. This particular update was clearly aimed at electronic music producers, not exactly my demographic, but I get it.
Not just electronic music producers but any producer, I think. There are tons of cool stuff there for them and the workflow is very straighforward for playing instruments and arranging. I like the UI as well but mostly because it feels like a whole, not like REAPER which looks like a puzzle with all the windows' windows (inception, a dream inside a dream) here and there (though I understand this is a major part of the efficience of REAPER). It's kinda funny, you know, because I've used several DAWs on different studios and it's puzzling how most of them neglect the editing part. I'm not talking about features like area selection and that stuff, I'm talking about things like being able to zoom in/out at mouse cursor with your keyboard, being able to select which channel of a stereo file you want to use, having envelopes for tweaking stuff per item, moving items and actually move them without ghosts left behind or even that silly thing where you can't even see the item moving until you drop it, split items at mouse cursor with your keyboard and decide for yourself if the split is going to happen left or right (great when splitting stuff close to transients), you know it's some simple stuff that I can't see other DAWs doing. REAPER is still miles away from hosts like PT with features like area selection and a more user-friendly automation environment but man, for editing real fast and getting that part done in minutes it is a beast (most people ask me which host I'm using but not because it looks different, it's because they see me doing all that crazy stuff we can do here heh).
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:34 PM   #58
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WTF? try using the windows performance meter
Are you sure the windows performance meter will prevent S1 also from stuttering? Thanks for suggestion, I should try it FFS.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:51 AM   #59
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btw:
Here are a some positive impressions from v.2.6 (compared to Reaper):
- Track inspector (I like it)
- Track Manager sticking one place, easy open/close
- Excellent browser-window for vst/i/files/media
- Less customization = less time customizing
- Bend marker strength and groove quantize!
- Comping is just fabolus
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:20 AM   #60
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Not just electronic music producers but any producer, I think. There are tons of cool stuff there for them and the workflow is very straighforward for playing instruments and arranging. I like the UI as well but mostly because it feels like a whole, not like REAPER which looks like a puzzle with all the windows' windows (inception, a dream inside a dream) here and there (though I understand this is a major part of the efficience of REAPER). It's kinda funny, you know, because I've used several DAWs on different studios and it's puzzling how most of them neglect the editing part. I'm not talking about features like area selection and that stuff, I'm talking about things like being able to zoom in/out at mouse cursor with your keyboard, being able to select which channel of a stereo file you want to use, having envelopes for tweaking stuff per item, moving items and actually move them without ghosts left behind or even that silly thing where you can't even see the item moving until you drop it, split items at mouse cursor with your keyboard and decide for yourself if the split is going to happen left or right (great when splitting stuff close to transients), you know it's some simple stuff that I can't see other DAWs doing. REAPER is still miles away from hosts like PT with features like area selection and a more user-friendly automation environment but man, for editing real fast and getting that part done in minutes it is a beast (most people ask me which host I'm using but not because it looks different, it's because they see me doing all that crazy stuff we can do here heh).
Not sure I agree with all of that (for example, only using one side of a stereo stream is easy enough now) but I do agree with your impression that Reaper can be setup to be a more efficient audio editor once you learn it fully. When I edit in Vegas, it too has some clear advantages for basic audio editing over S1. When you get to some other stuff like quantiIng audio or other similar things, not so much, but basic zooming and editing (cutting out mouth pops or clicks etc) and all that works much better in Vegas than in S1. So Reaper taking - some - of that from Vegas was one of it's best choices, imo.

You and I are always the same page. The general idea being that while we look at all products just to see what they're doing, and they all have value, it's not a good idea to start with the assumption that a product was designed to get people to switch, so the regular comments down that path are kinda silly. (Not you obviously)

They didn't update it to make Reaper users switch, they updated it with things that S1 users asked for, so the regular round of "why I won't be using it", again, not you, is kinda silly. I already lnow why most here won't use it, because Reaper does all they need.

It's not a contest. People actually do prefer different things.

Last edited by Lawrence; 05-22-2015 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 05-22-2015, 09:19 AM   #61
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Apologies for my earlier post claiming no upgrade for 2.6 producer. There is, but you HAVE to go up to Professional and at a price. 132 of those UK pound things.

2 Reaper amateur licences. For an upgrade.
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:24 AM   #62
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If EvilDragon (the resident Kontakt expert) is here... can you tell me what if anything from Kontakt 5 loads in Presence XT?

I heard it cuts off at 4.1 or 4.2 (watermarks in K5?) but more concise info would be nice, if you could try to load some of the factory sets and let me know.

Thanks in advance ED.
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:39 AM   #63
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NI changed the NKI format completely with the advent of K4.2. Anything above that simply won't work in anything else, other than Kontakt. Watermarking has nothing to do with it - it's a fundamental change in file format. While prior to K4.2 the format was packed XML, in K4.2 is a fully binary format. And only NI holds the specs for that.
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:46 AM   #64
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Apologies for my earlier post claiming no upgrade for 2.6 producer. There is, but you HAVE to go up to Professional and at a price. 132 of those UK pound things.

2 Reaper amateur licences. For an upgrade.
Upgrade to Studio One 3 Artist and get the "available add-on" for third-party plug-in support? That's only £97!

Oops, that's not possible from Studio One 2 Producer (only from Studio One 2 Artist).
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:04 AM   #65
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NI changed the NKI format completely with the advent of K4.2. Anything above that simply won't work in anything else, other than Kontakt. Watermarking has nothing to do with it - it's a fundamental change in file format. While prior to K4.2 the format was packed XML, in K4.2 is a fully binary format. And only NI holds the specs for that.
Gotcha. Thanks Ed. So the cutoff is actually what I have, 4.1.

So, just to be clear, if you dumped your own samples in Kontkat 5, (or 4.2 or greater), made a nice sound, exported that in Kontakt format (obviously unprotected unlike commercial libraries), would that also be in that binary / proprietary format that won't load in 4.1 or something like Presence XT?

Thanks.
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:08 AM   #66
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Correct - it's all binary format. Doesn't matter if it's a Kontakt Player library or not (KP libs have additional encryption on files, too, on top of AES-128 used for the "vanilla" K4.2+ binary format).

K4.1.3 was the last version before the format change.
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:09 AM   #67
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Yes, you are right. Any instrument built / edited in Kontakt version a.b.c will only load in that version of Kontakt or a higher version.

<< not quick enough >>
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:14 AM   #68
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Correct - it's all binary format. Doesn't matter if it's a Kontakt Player library or not (KP libs have additional encryption on files, too, on top of AES-128 used for the "vanilla" K4.2+ binary format).

K4.1.3 was the last version before the format change.
Thank you.

Your Kontakt guru status is well deserved.

(and the previous additional question you answered was more me wondering if they maybe had backward compatibility export functions, like PT, where you could export in 4.1 format or something)
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:22 AM   #69
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The new UI is terrible...ugly and boring, IMO. Looks like just another shitty, flat interface you find on most phone/pad apps and such. I'm guessing they took a cue from Ableton and Bitwig, which just seems to me a big step backward for S1.

My 2 cents...
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Old 05-22-2015, 11:23 AM   #70
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(and the previous additional question you answered was more me wondering if they maybe had backward compatibility export functions, like PT, where you could export in 4.1 format or something)
Nope, nor will they ever do that. There are far too many changes (especially with scripting) that simply make saving in previous version's format more of a miss than a hit. Development time is better used for further improvements rather than catering for the old versions.
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:10 PM   #71
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Is there a way to select ranges for quantizing a multitrack drum performance ?
Audiobend just seems to go through the entire file....
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:28 PM   #72
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Is there a way to select ranges for quantizing a multitrack drum performance ?
Audiobend just seems to go through the entire file....
Draw a range selection over any section(s) of any audio clip(s) and hit Q or Alt+Q (50% quantize). It will split the region(s) and only quantize and put bend markers on those sections where the range selections are/were.

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Old 05-22-2015, 12:52 PM   #73
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I bought S1 2.6 Pro last year and rather quickly went back to using REAPER at least 90% of the time. I do like Studio One but I'm hearing about too many issues in v3 and they want too much to upgrade to yet anoher version I probably won't use enough.

Thanks for all the opinions and input, but I'm staying put for the foreseeable future.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:28 PM   #74
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For those of you that keep complaining about the S1v3 theme being ugly, please go to preferences/general/appearance and move the sliders around. I quickly got rid of the ugly dark default theme and made an awesome Cubase looking theme in about 10 seconds.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:37 PM   #75
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Thanks for all the opinions and input, but I'm staying put for the foreseeable future.
That's why these threads are always entertaining to read, because nobody is ever asking anyone to switch to anything (literally, nobody ever does, not even the companies selling these productrs ) but every time a new version of anything comes out the same people come out and say why they aren't "switching".
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Old 05-22-2015, 10:30 PM   #76
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Draw a range selection over any section(s) of any audio clip(s) and hit Q or Alt+Q (50% quantize). It will split the region(s) and only quantize and put bend markers on those sections where the range selections are/were.

Thank you Lawrence !
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