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02-24-2015, 06:16 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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OT from theme thread
I wish the entire TCP background could act like a meter
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02-24-2015, 06:44 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I wish the entire TCP background could act like a meter
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Here is a Big meters layout I did, but with some controls like volume, fx and mute solo buttons. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=154914
Maybe it is a good idea a layout like that in REAPER 5? REAPER 4 has the Big Meter layout so REAPER 5 will probably have it too once the theme is finished... But as I say.. I always missed at least some basic controls in that layout so I can use it more. Just an idea White Tie, I think if you include something similar it would be good.
another thing, in the gif you can also see why I would like a fixed height for some layouts, like the BUS folder layouts in that gif. I would like them to maintain height while zooming vertical in and out. Fixed height for separators TCP tracks would be good too.
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02-24-2015, 07:31 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,050
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What am I going have to change about my current theme in order to fit with 5.0?
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Slava Ukraini
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02-24-2015, 07:38 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda
Here is a Big meters layout I did, but with some controls like volume, fx and mute solo buttons. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=154914
Maybe it is a good idea a layout like that in REAPER 5? REAPER 4 has the Big Meter layout so REAPER 5 will probably have it too once the theme is finished... But as I say.. I always missed at least some basic controls in that layout so I can use it more. Just an idea White Tie, I think if you include something similar it would be good.
another thing, in the gif you can also see why I would like a fixed height for some layouts, like the BUS folder layouts in that gif. I would like them to maintain height while zooming vertical in and out. Fixed height for separators TCP tracks would be good too.
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To me, this is the opposite of good functionality. I don't need the meters that badly. I don't need them huge nor at incredible resolution.
A decent size is nice, but what I really need, is easy access to all my controls, and high resolution on input. Meaning a small knob, or small fader track, and ginormous meter, let me see what I should be using my ears for, and doesn't give me any sort of precision to set it how I want it.
Give me nice sized meters, but the main thing is the controls. I don't want to hunt for stuff or fiddle with anything.
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Slava Ukraini
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02-24-2015, 07:43 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep
To me, this is the opposite of good functionality. I don't need the meters that badly. I don't need them huge nor at incredible resolution.
A decent size is nice, but what I really need, is easy access to all my controls, and high resolution on input. Meaning a small knob, or small fader track, and ginormous meter, let me see what I should be using my ears for, and doesn't give me any sort of precision to set it how I want it.
Give me nice sized meters, but the main thing is the controls. I don't want to hunt for stuff or fiddle with anything.
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I agree with you.. It was based on the Big Meters v4 layout, but with some controls, because the controls are important as you say. I don't mean it to be the default layout, but as the big meters layout is an optional layout, a big meters with some controls at least could be another.
And also we can switch to this layout and back to the default one to all tracks with a single keyboard shortcut as you probably know.
I'm totally with you to use the ears. specially since the meters we have are only peak meters. and not loudness meters.
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02-25-2015, 12:38 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Spain
Posts: 7,239
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one idea would be... set track names separated by a / for example
"Long description / short description"
Then in TCP only show long description and in MCP only show the short one.
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02-25-2015, 03:32 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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I was suggesting the knobs stay where they are and the meter be background
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02-25-2015, 07:02 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda
one idea would be... set track names separated by a / for example
"Long description / short description"
Then in TCP only show long description and in MCP only show the short one.
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You know what I would like? having a track name underneath the icons in mcp.
For me, I only need a short name. The track icon is part of the name, the folder hierarchy is another, and all I need after that is short abbreviations.
Track templates make icons really useful. If I want an instrument, I callup that track template with icon and everything. It's very fast.
If you did short/long names, and put short names under the icons, I would use short names only.
Or if you guys decide to put track names right under icons in mcp either way, that might make me switch theme even. Idk why that isn't standard, they are both identifiers, and are generally placed as far apart as possible on every strip in mcp, doesn't make sense to me. It seems kind of intuitive to do it that way, for some reason, but from a practical standpoint, I don't see the advantage.
Icons at the bottom would be weird, but I'd take it. Track names at top and bottom, would be awesome to me also. I have plenty of vertical real estate in mcp.
__________________
Slava Ukraini
Last edited by Sound asleep; 02-25-2015 at 07:09 PM.
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02-26-2015, 02:40 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I was suggesting the knobs stay where they are and the meter be background
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That would force all TCP controls to be redrawn at the same rate as the meter refresh which, over multiple tracks, would cumulatively be pretty bad for CPU performance.
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02-26-2015, 06:00 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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I have 200 tracks and my CPU is at 20%. Bring it on!
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02-27-2015, 09:04 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: mcr:uk
Posts: 3,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I have 200 tracks and my CPU is at 20%. Bring it on!
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LOL!
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03-21-2015, 08:21 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 35
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How can this take priority over "timeline, signature" lanes customization?
Or the "generic" FX chain window?
Those elements are in dire need of customization...they break all themes
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03-21-2015, 01:45 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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I version 5 can anyone advise me how to adjust the TCP as below please? Also, what is the best way to learn about Walter for noobs wanting to adjust 5 themes please ? What to read?
Also is it possible for me to add a parameter(s) from an FX as an additional horizontal fader(s) below the meter ?
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03-22-2015, 04:08 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Bump..is it possible
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03-22-2015, 07:58 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Horizontal meters are possible. The Walter code is still pretty much the same as it ever was, as are the things you can do with it.
But the current v5pre default theme has a special "novice-friendly Flow implementation". That makes it pretty easy for anybody to choose and tweak the order of some of the elements shown at different panel sizes. At the same time, it does make the rtconfig as a whole a bit more complex to handle, so not really a beginner theme to dive in and tweak just everything.
Since the default theme is still in development, making custom changes to it may be risky and break some of the flow features. But if you're happy about the current look otherwise, nothing stops you or somebody willing to experiment with it. Personally I think there are more simple v4 themes to practise with though and none of the skills acquired are wasted, there are just some additions in v5.
As for the parameter faders in TCP, I don't think that has changed from the v4...so afaik, it would be knobs at specially defined places.
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03-22-2015, 09:01 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Also, what is the best way to learn about Walter for noobs wanting to adjust 5 themes please ? What to read?
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Coachz...my recommendation would be to read White Tie's rtconfig.txt comments.
He's provided some great ways to mod the default theme with limited knowledge of Walter.
So...reading his rtconfig and consulting http://reaper.fm/sdk/walter/walter.php#intro
and http://reaper.fm/sdk/walter/images.php#intro will IMHO do the trick.
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03-22-2015, 10:05 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,770
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Thanks. Im reading the walter docs to allow me some tweaking.
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03-27-2015, 05:32 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
No, it looks perfect. Subjective tennis, love-15, WT to serve.
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I actually gave a reasoning. It's not an opinion, it's a statement: there are two different graphics styles mixed together in the same theme. I don't like it (THAT's an opinion). But you may find that perfect, so suit yourself. Mostly an exercise in futility, it seems.
Last edited by Evan; 03-27-2015 at 06:10 AM.
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03-27-2015, 05:59 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
1) Volume knob on TCP looks completely out of place with the rest of the theme (i.e. rounded shiny embossed style vs flat/minimal).
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Agreed. It does not look good.
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03-27-2015, 06:35 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
Theme is shaping up fine. Two annoyances..
1) Volume knob on TCP looks completely out of place with the rest of the theme (i.e. rounded shiny embossed style vs flat/minimal).
2) Similarly, the excessive gradient in the MCP faders. (but less annoying than the TCP volume knob)
I like the default TCP layout. I like the 'small' MCP layout (would prefer that as default).
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+1, bulgy and flat elements side by side are completely rubbish.
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03-27-2015, 08:36 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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I am a little puzzled... not much, only a little.
It used to be "Let's work together to get this thing up and running".
Now it's more like "Take the 'opinion' I disagree with, and shove it in an OT thread". At best. At worst, it goes in the ignore-land of forum history.
The hard truth is that we have been mostly wasting our time with our OT opinions. Is my good will and contribution worth such a fate? Hardly...
No surprise the good-ol days of people brainstorming with ideas and endless mockups... have died out (with just a few loyal folks still going).
I am a little puzzled... not much, only a little. And I don't think I care much anymore either.
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03-27-2015, 10:02 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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I'm also puzzled. WT, stop being a primadonna and understand that not everything you do is perfect. That volume knob is definitely NOT perfect, it stands out as a sore thumb, and it needs to be changed for the final version of the default skin.
Still, I bet again the default Reaper 5 theme is going to be the cause of a lot of flack regarding Reaper's GUI, because there's still not enough things added to WALTER to make Reaper's GUI more consistent (FX window, anyone?)
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03-27-2015, 11:12 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Norway
Posts: 140
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This thread shouldn't even exist, none of this discussion should have been moved from the "5.0pre18 WIP Theme - Flow in the wild" thread.It's constructive criticism/theme feedback.
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03-28-2015, 08:29 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lannister
This thread shouldn't even exist, none of this discussion should have been moved from the "5.0pre18 WIP Theme - Flow in the wild" thread.It's constructive criticism/theme feedback.
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The posts move here may indeed be OT, if that other thread has a very specific focus. Although I did not conclude that seeing that most were talking about everything, really. But say it is so.
The question now is this: is there any other thread, where discussions such as these in here, are on topic? Is there a discussion thread about the Reaper 5 UI in general, that is taken even half-seriously from those responsible?
I don't see one. I don't think it's even wanted. Whatever that means.
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03-28-2015, 10:17 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
The posts move here may indeed be OT, if that other thread has a very specific focus. Although I did not conclude that seeing that most were talking about everything, really. But say it is so.
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It may be easy to forget whenever a new default theme topic by White Tie appears, but those topics do have some very specific questions asked and for a reason. I have also myself failed to stay in topic all the time, but try to acknowledge when that is happening and change it.
The thing is, the default theme is not tailor made for me and I'm not the one responsible for making it no matter what happens. So as I see it, if I want to help with it, I'll better help like I'm asked to.
From pre9 thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
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Please help me, and in a way that I find helpful. If you were to employ me directly, I would use all my powers of charm and persuasion to encourage you and your company to follow a rigerous and structured approach to design. Not because I'm so damn clever, but because that is my training, my profession and I've witnessed how well that works. I've also, many many times, winessed how a disorganised and ad-hoc process fails to make progress and yields very poor results, no matter how much intelligence, talent and good intention is on-hand. Charm and persuasion don't translate on the interwebs, but we still need to follow the course. It is, for this reason, that I will do what needs to be done to keep things focussed, which may well mean addressing others who distract those wonderful people who are here to join in the effort. You have a whole forum to post off the topic of this thread, or start a meta conversation about it, please make use of it. But not here please. Please do not respond to this paragraph, or at least not in this thread. I need to keep things on-track for us to have a chance of a great outcome, which is of course what we all want. Thank you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
The question now is this: is there any other thread, where discussions such as these in here, are on topic? Is there a discussion thread about the Reaper 5 UI in general, that is taken even half-seriously from those responsible?
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Any other thread is fine for discussing about all and everything related, imho. But I think if we want ourselves taken seriously, we must show that seriousness ourselves where and when it's asked to.
Or are we getting occasionally too serious while not really trusting the development process? The process we are not creating but just participating in?
Last edited by xpander; 03-28-2015 at 11:09 AM.
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03-28-2015, 12:00 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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xpander, thanks for a balanced perspective...
Perhaps it's best to think of the default theme development as a contracted job, and -generally speaking- none of our business.
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03-28-2015, 02:44 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
I version 5 can anyone advise me how to adjust the TCP as below please? Also, what is the best way to learn about Walter for noobs wanting to adjust 5 themes please ? What to read?
Also is it possible for me to add a parameter(s) from an FX as an additional horizontal fader(s) below the meter ?
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Have you tried the Reaper 3 theme Coachz? It basically does what you're asking for.
It's plain and it's simple but I've been using that up until now and might continue to use it, depending on how Version 5 actually turns out.
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03-30-2015, 08:46 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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I think this is getting out of hand. Flexibility is good and all but some seriously basic design principals are being thrown out the window in favour of pleasing everyone. End result, no one is pleased.
The contrast, the incoherence of things, the strange colouring (and the preferences method of tinting is gone in favour of Walter code editing? Talk about a regression..)
With all due respect White Tie, I think you should pick priorities and stick with them. Emphasis on readability, contrast, and clean feedback of numbers would be my suggestion, fwiw.
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04-11-2015, 06:58 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Nominating main R5 UI standouts of 2015
- Tiny pixel-thin bitmap text/art..... check!
- Black text on dark-grey background.... check!
- Arbitrary mix of flat styles and pseudo-3D-gradients.... check!
- Red-green icons potentially inaccessible to the color-blind (and just plain 'yuk' to another bunch).... check!
(Plus my stereoscopic glasses don't do a thing)
- Minimizing preparedness for the coming onslaught of affordable hi-DPI monitors.... (e.g. http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-...ucts/surface-3).... check!
The list is too short... a plea to enrich it with more awesomeness, 2015 is still young.
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04-11-2015, 08:29 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
The list is too short... a plea to enrich it with more awesomeness, 2015 is still young.
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I would nominate the white indicator lines on very light grey knobs (MCP, 'stereo pan' pan mode, width knob on selected tracks).
Btw, if we would also nominate UI standouts for things that do *not* belong to Themes, I can make a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long list.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
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04-11-2015, 10:20 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Btw, if we would also nominate UI standouts for things that do *not* belong to Themes, I can make a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long list.
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Yes but that would be very OT on an OT thread..... in other words... go right ahead
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04-11-2015, 01:18 PM
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#32
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Banned
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Too close to Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Emphasis on readability, contrast, and clean feedback of numbers would be my suggestion, fwiw.
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Seconded. It's very hard to read much of the info presented with the current theme. I suppose it might get fixed at last, but the problems are so obvious that it's really a piece of low-hanging fruit.
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