Preamp+AD/DA converter with ADAT I/O

[matthewjumpsoffbuildings]

Im looking at upgrading my interface/pres (I have a shitty old M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R).

After a lot of research Ive decided I want to build around an RME HDSPe RayDAT card, and then get an 8 in, 8 out preamp+AD/DA converter that I can ADAT into/out of the RME card.

I am looking at a few options

• ART TubeOpto 8
• Presonus Digimax FS
• Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic
• Behringer ADA8200

All of these products (I think?) meet my requirements - they have 8 mic pres, that can be sent via ADAT to the RME card, and they also have ADAT inputs with 8 line outs that I can use to receive the ADAT output of the RME.

My main concern is noise floor and sound quality. I have a feeling the Behringer would be the worst on both counts? But Ive seen mixed reviews of the TubeOpto too. If anyone can offer any concrete advice on the noise floor and quality of each of these pres that would be great.

edit: i should add im particularly interested in the noise floor on the HiZ inputs, since I use a lot of amp sims and due to the high gain nature of guitar amps, the digital noise floor gets significantly boosted, resulting in a significant change in character/tone. hence my desire for HiZ ins that are as clean and noiseless as possible

Also Im aware the Digimax FS is discontinued, which sucks cause the current model only does AD but not DA, and I really like the fact the FS has its XLR inputs on the front panel However if the pres on it are the best option I guess Ill hope I can find one second hand in good condition.

Finally if theres any other products with 8 pres, 8 line outs and ADAT I/O with better quality preamps, Im all ears

Cheers.

[James HE]

Back when I had use for a lot of inputs, I had a Mackie 800R. The pres were fine, the DI sounded great, and one neat thing was that it has this M/S circuit in it, which is really useful at times. Also discontinued, but can be found used for reasonable prices.

it, like the newer digimax, does not have DA - so what I did was pick up an old Blackface ADAT for basically nothing and used that for DA. That ties you to 48k, so maybe not an option, and you need the rack space for it. Just something to consider I guess.

[ivansc]

I had 2 ADA8000 and traded to Focusrite Octopres in the interests of reliability after having one of my ADAs succumb to the Behringer power supply fault just out of warranty!
Still have them and they work fine for me.
At this sort of price point you are really not going to see a huge amount of difference in noise floor between them,
And you also have to decide at what point the noise floor of the preamp you choose actually becomes more significant than noise from other sources.

However, the Behringer at least on paper is a astep up from my ADA8000s.
IF you go to something with its mic inputs on the rear panel, I have a 1U 8xXLR panel left over from when I made little jumper cables to route the mic/xlr ins round to the front of my rack that I could sell you cheaply assuming you are in the UK

[matthewjumpsoffbuildings]

Originally Posted by ivansc

And you also have to decide at what point the noise floor of the preamp you choose actually becomes more significant than noise from other sources.

with the amp sims the noise floor does make a big difference. other forms of noise (cable noise, noise the guitar pickups create etc) is acceptable because you would get that using a normal guitar amp, it doesnt sound weird. but the digital noise floor added by digital HiZ inputs does make a massive difference in tone, and doesnt sound anything like normal guitar noise. With the large amount of gain added by the ampsim it adds a ton of digital 'hiss' and 'fizz' to the tone which sounds like ass.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by matthewjumpsoffbuildings

Im looking at upgrading my interface/pres (I have a shitty old M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R).

After a lot of research Ive decided I want to build around an RME HDSPe RayDAT card, and then get an 8 in, 8 out preamp+AD/DA converter that I can ADAT into/out of the RME card.

I am looking at a few options

• ART TubeOpto 8
• Presonus Digimax FS
• Focusrite OctoPre MkII Dynamic
• Behringer ADA8200

So, you need 8 preamps?

I have a RME Hdsp 9632, performing fine

Behringer: I have the ADA8000 and I've ditched the pre/input use of it (except when I need more ins). To bad performance. DA is fine.

ART: If it's on par with MPA, it's a nice box for the budget/entry-studio, but not what I would choose in this case.

I I was you I'd steered towards something like:
- UA 4-710d
- Ferrofish A16 MkII + 500rack with your choice of preamps
- Audient ASP880

If that's not in budget, I'd just get something used for so long.
eg http://www.ebay.com/itm/Presonus-Dig...3D262205743694

[matthewjumpsoffbuildings]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I I was you I'd steered towards something like:
- UA 4-710d
- Ferrofish A16 MkII + 500rack with your choise of preamps
- Audient ASP880

that setup would be way out of my price range

Originally Posted by G-Sun

If that's not in budget, I'd just get something used for so long.
eg http://www.ebay.com/itm/Presonus-Dig...3D262205743694

how does the Digimax LT compare with the Digimax FS? Do they have the same quality pres/HiZ inputs? If I was going to go with a used item Id prefer the FS over the LT, everything else being equal, since the FS has front facing input XLRs

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by matthewjumpsoffbuildings

with the amp sims the noise floor does make a big difference. other forms of noise (cable noise, noise the guitar pickups create etc) is acceptable because you would get that using a normal guitar amp, it doesnt sound weird. but the digital noise floor added by digital HiZ inputs does make a massive difference in tone, and doesnt sound anything like normal guitar noise. With the large amount of gain added by the ampsim it adds a ton of digital 'hiss' and 'fizz' to the tone which sounds like ass.

In that case, from my experience you could do a lot worse than the focusrite, but do see if you can audition or buy with guaranteed return the newer ADA box. It seems to get some positive comments for the most part and apparently they fixed the power supply problems the ADA8000 had.

As far a nasty fizzy high gain guitar amp and cab sims, I personally believe you would get more of a bang for your buck addressing this side of things as much a the interface.
I own a bunch of guitar amp sims and several of them are totally unusable in high gain mode, like you say.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by matthewjumpsoffbuildings

that setup would be way out of my price range


how does the Digimax LT compare with the Digimax FS? Do they have the same quality pres/HiZ inputs? If I was going to go with a used item Id prefer the FS over the LT, everything else being equal, since the FS has front facing input XLRs

Ok,
I don't know about the Digimax LT really.

If you don't aim for something like above suggested,
then I'd rather ditch the RME
and get what you want in one solution,
like Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
It will not be the weakest thing in your chain by a far shoot.

[matthewjumpsoffbuildings]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

If you don't aim for something like above suggested,
then I'd rather ditch the RME
and get what you want in one solution,
like Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
It will not be the weakest thing in your chain by a far shoot.

Oh im definitely building my system around an RME pcie card, because its one of the best performing options in terms of latency and stability. i have seen countless reviews and performance tests demonstrating that RMEs hardware and drivers is top notch, and for the price (around $1000 AUD) the HDSPe RayDAT is a great card with tons of connectivity.

I highly doubt a focusrite scarlett will be able to get the crazy low latencies with high track/FX counts of an RME card while still remaining rock solid over USB2

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by matthewjumpsoffbuildings

Oh im definitely building my system around an RME pcie card, because its one of the best performing options in terms of latency and stability. i have seen countless reviews and performance tests demonstrating that RMEs hardware and drivers is top notch, and for the price (around $1000 AUD) the HDSPe RayDAT is a great card with tons of connectivity.

I highly doubt a focusrite scarlett will be able to get the crazy low latencies with high track/FX counts of an RME card while still remaining rock solid over USB2

Well, yes RME Hdspe is usually best in class regarding latency and stability.
But, else it's like buying Ferrari tires for your Lada.

[drumphil]

Why not get an RME mic pre converter rack? A DI box can take care of the HighZ input. Likely to have lower latency converters than the other options too, but that can be hard to determine when manufacturers aren't always up front with such information.

At the end of the other thread discussing your plans, I believe I recommended an RME converter rack as the best way to get the lowest possible latency with a RayDAT and an external converter rack.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/octamic_2.php

Unfortunately it is very hard to find an adat mic pre rack that has high z inputs built in. Plenty of stand alone USB interfaces do, but using them as a converter rack for the RayDAT can be problematic, as many such units have added latency when running like this, and it's hard to find definite information before you get one.

Also, the HighZ inputs are often a weak link in audio interfaces. Just because it says "HighZ" on the converter rack doesn't guarantee that you wouldn't get better results with a dedicated high quality DI box.