Old 04-17-2015, 09:46 PM   #1
Mink99
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Default Rme totalmix v4 coexistence w. Reaper

Rme has issued a new version of the totalmix tool, which is compatible to mostly all rme cards.
This raised once again the question, what approach would make sense to get the best out of this soundcard-routing device and the mixing-routing capabilities of reaper ?

This is not specific to rme, the other manufacturers have similar mixers bundled with their devices.
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Old 04-17-2015, 10:22 PM   #2
ivansc
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Been through the old emu Patchmix and currently own 2 RME devices.
I never use the RME Totalmix stuff, just "set and forget" and use Reaper for all routing.
But you could do it the other way equally well.
Nice to have choices, isn't it?
Especially as Totalmix seems to be getting better and better... I may switch one of these days.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:11 PM   #3
lachrimae
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Here's a shot of my TMix window and a brief description of what's happening:

https://i.imgur.com/F9fj3pw.png

2 Snapshots: 1st sends all audio directly to the monitors. 2nd sends all audio to a vst host (pedalboard 2) which hosts ARC2 before heading to the monitors. I use the 2nd snapshot all of the time because it allows me to listen to everything including streamed 3rd party music through the EQ'd room control (helps to get the ears trained to the room)

All 4 mic pres use a 12dB/Oct LC filter from TMix.
All mic pres use AutoSet which I find to be extremely convenient. My snapshot sets them all to 40dB Gain, then AutoSet adjusts it downward leaving 6dB headroom with whatever material I'm playing. So if I'm tracking an ac. guitar for example, I click snapshot 2 to reset the gain, play the loudest part of the material I'm about to record which sets the level, then I'm all set with a safe amount of headroom.

Headphones 1 & 2 aren't routed through the ARC2 software (another convenience I don't have to manage when moving back & fourth from monitors to headphones).

Digicheck Totalyser is always running and shows audio from all sources (DAW, youtube, steams etc). Here's my config:
https://i.imgur.com/drNu5Bz.png

My monitors and sub can be controlled together or separately.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some conveniences. Prior to moving to RME I was having to change the default Windows audio device depending on whether or not I wanted to let the DAW have the audio driver or let Windows have it. There were issues if I tried to let them share... I also tried running Win audio inside reaper so that each project had a hidden track that was receiving windows audio, but it was kluge and was a hassle to use in more than one DAW.

The current setup is DAW agnostic and allows me to use the audio drivers from any source, simultaneously. I'm happy...
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:19 AM   #4
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Ok, took me some time to get it .... respect ...

So ... The more powerful the device will be, the more Features from total mix can be used to tame it or shield it from the daw...
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:44 AM   #5
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It´s really simple to answer..
We use a HDSPe MADI FX card(s) live and do all the (virtuell) mixing things
with Totalmix; that means completly mixing with/in the hardware interface and totalmix.
And DIGI-Check for recording all Hardware-inputs, playback and Hardware-output streams on the fly.
So we have really all used channels as separate streams and can do mastering/mixing later in studio.
We never use any DAW software for mixing and recording on stage.
Live, the DAW is only another instrument, for the band(s).

Private I never hear any classical music, it´s a horror for me, but it´s always a funny thing to record
really big orchestras.
So, yesterday we record an reeeeally big classical one live (I mean 280 instrumental persons it was )
with alone over 170 mics. Really funny and I mean the result is absolute great.
In 37 years i never did that before. The max was always near 100 mics.

As i said, on stage we mix completly with Totalmix in hardware/card interface
and with DIGI-Checks Global record function, we record very easy and stable all used audio channel streams to disk. According to the motto: push only once the record button and do not think about it anymore, til maybe the session ended.
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Last edited by ELP; 04-19-2015 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:37 AM   #6
Rusty Falcon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lachrimae View Post
Here's a shot of my TMix window and a brief description of what's happening:

https://i.imgur.com/F9fj3pw.png

2 Snapshots: 1st sends all audio directly to the monitors. 2nd sends all audio to a vst host (pedalboard 2) which hosts ARC2 before heading to the monitors. I use the 2nd snapshot all of the time because it allows me to listen to everything including streamed 3rd party music through the EQ'd room control (helps to get the ears trained to the room).
Hope you don't mind a brief resurrection of this thread...

I've been using VSTHost and Sonarworks room correction with Win 10 x64 and a M-Audio FW410 using HiFi-Cable and ASIO4ALL. This works fine when I'm playing back music or for other Windows created sounds. When using Reaper I turn off VSTHost and have my Reaper set to output directly to the FW410 using Sonarworks as a Monitoring FX. Again all works well and does what I expect for either audio/video playback from Windows, or audio from Reaper - just one at a time.

I just obtained a HDSP PCI and Multiface (1 not 2) and am recreating my routing. Reading your post gave the impression you somehow loop your UFX back into Windows to ARC2/pedalboard2 then back out ? Does your pedalboard2/ARC2 also pick up the audio from Reaper and route out to the UFX ?

If I didn't completely understand, would you mind amplifying a bit how exactly you did this ?

Thanks,
Brian
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:08 PM   #7
lachrimae
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Hey Brian,

I've stopped using Pedalboard/ARC2 and created my own EQ curve in the Main out of TMix:

I set the curve via sine sweeps and white noise until my analyzer was as flat as I could get it on the bottom-end. It's not perfect and doesn't account for differences in L/R signals, but I like the simplicity and decreased latency of running w/out Pedalboard.
Personally I feel like as long as you get the curve as flat as possible and then get to know the sound of your room, your mixes will sound fine.

But, let's see if I can recall how I set up Pedalboard in Tmix (change the inputs/output numbers to whichever you prefer to use):
Software Playback (middle row in TMix):
- Reaper should output to Analog 1/2
- Windows should output to ADAT 15/16
Both of the above should send at full-volume to:
Hardware Outputs (bottom row in TMix)
- ADAT 11/12
Set ADAT 11/12 to Loopback.
Set Input in Pedalboard to ADAT 11/12 (the loopback of ADAT 11/12 is sending Reaper and Windows audio to Pedalboard).
Software Playback:
- Pedalboard should output to ADAT 13/14
Hardware Outputs:
- Set Main (AN 1/2) to receive signal from ADAT 13/14.

Not even sure this is right, but hopefully it'll put you on track:
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:37 PM   #8
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Really appreciate you taking the time to spell that out for me. The "loopback" function in TM is the key it seems like. I don't believe I have that function in my FW410.

Your routing makes sense, ADAT 11/12 and 13/14 just to loop things around back and forth so that Sonarworks/VSTHost are applied then they output to the monitors. In essence ADAT 13/14 becomes the main audio playback with correction applied, then that goes to the monitors and phones. Interesting and I may have to give this a shot once I recreate my basic setup using my HDSP and MF1.

I'm going to have to stew on this a bit at home. What I had been doing took a step or two depending on what I was planning to do at that moment (mix in Reaper or listen to video/audio from Windows) but seemed less complex. :>

Thanks again!
Brian
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Old 10-27-2016, 10:24 AM   #9
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Hey lachrime using the 'loopback' feature worked a charm. Had to make some changes since the Multiface 1 I have provides overall less ports. Plus I lose half the ADAT ports (8 becomes 4) when running at 88.2 as I prefer. Following your info I was able to route audio as follows:
  • TM playback SPDIF receives audio from Windows (default playback device)
  • TM playback ADAT 1/2 receives audio from Reaper
  • TM output ADAT 3/4
    • receives from TM playback SPDIF and ADAT 1/2
    • configured as "Loopback"
  • VSTHost with SWREF
    • receives audio from HDSP ADAT 3/4
    • I select one of two VSTHost profiles as needed:
      • Mains/Sub uses SWREF room correction, sends audio to TM playback ADAT 3/4
      • Phones uses SWREF headphone correction, sends audio to TM playback AN 5/6
  • TM output Phones
    • only takes audio from TM playback 5/6
  • TM output AN 1/2
    • only takes audio from TM playback ADAT 3/4
    • is connected to my Tannoy mains
  • TM output AN 3/4
    • only takes audio from TM playback ADAT 3/4
    • is connected to my subwoofer
This works great at 88.2 with 64 samples buffer in HDSP for about a 2 ms latency. Using the loopback allowed me to skip using a VB HiFi-Cable virtual device, skip using ASIO4ALL to get audio into and out of VSThost, and remove the SWREF software from my Reaper Monitoring FX panel. This new setup clearly reduced CPU usage and latency while giving me a consistent path for using SWREF/VSThost to apply SWREF to all audio.

Do you know offhand is there any advantage or disadvantage in using playback AN vs SPDIF and ADAT ports ?

Thanks again,
Brian
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lachrimae View Post
I set the curve via sine sweeps and white noise until my analyzer was as flat as I could get it on the bottom-end.
For someone doing this for the first time, is there a tutorial video demonstrating this technique? Do you need a specific flat mic to capture the sweeps? Is there a frequency responce chart that you have to match it against? How does the white noise work?

I'd love to watch a video that covers this, without necessarily selling a specific product or solution.
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