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04-06-2014, 02:56 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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Questions about: Limiter? Clipping?
Hi there,
I am a bit of noob but have been using Reaper with no real trouble for a year. Mainly recording acoustic guitar and vocals with a M-Audio Fast Track Pro interface.
1) As I am about to start mixing my recorded songs, there is this clipping sound. How could I solve this? It did not help lowering the Master lever as low as down to -19,5 db.
2) In order to do some very basic mastering, I would need to use a limiter I understand. Mainly just to increase the output volume (as some friends will listen to my songs on their computers/smart phones). I have heard there might be a built-in plugin in Reaper. I have no experience using any limiter or any plugins in Reaper before.
Very helpful if someone may be able helping me. I am running Reaper 64 BIT.
Many Thanks in advance! :-)
Chris (morningbakery)
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04-06-2014, 03:16 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 272
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First thing to do is make sure you didn't clip the input when you recorded. Zoom into your audio item and see if it tops out anywhere (i.e. if it touches the top of the item it will have clipped there if you haven't already reduced the item volume). Also make sure none of your plug-ins are clipping.
There's a decent limiter called masterLimiter included with Reaper. Just put it into the search field in the FX dialog. Bring down the threshold to increase perceived loudness. Bring down the "limit" or ceiling control to bring down the actual output peak level below 0 dbfs. The Reduction parameter is not a slider, it's just a very brief kind of peak meter that will flash on when you go over the threshold.
Last edited by David Perry; 04-06-2014 at 04:12 PM.
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04-06-2014, 04:20 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 272
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I misspoke when I said threshold couldn't be above limit on that plug-in. It's confusing labeling because it sounds like they should do the same thing. Pulling the threshold down is doing more than one thing, maybe both increasing the input gain and the output up to the 'limit' at the same time. This may be the way the L series work in Waves, I'm not sure. I'm used to using Fab Filter Pro-L where you manually control input and output separately.
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04-07-2014, 08:58 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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Many Thanks for your reply!
So I found the plugin called Master Limiter.
I lowered the Treshold from the default setting to -13.3 and the Limit to -2.9.
Still there is clipping when I play the track. However I did not "render" in any way after I did the changes within Master Limiter. Is that needed? How would I do this then?
Appreciating all help!
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04-07-2014, 09:27 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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If you clipped when tracking,
you're screwed. (Or need some advanced tools)
Else, check your mix-chain for clipping plugins.
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
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04-07-2014, 09:33 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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From Daves post
"Zoom into your audio item and see if it tops out anywhere (i.e. if it touches the top of the item it will have clipped there if you haven't already reduced the item volume)"
Have you done this? If the input level clipped when you recorded it doesn't matter about the limiter or moving faders around. It's part of the recorded audio
Make sure that's not it before proceeding I would say. Also mentioned is make sure no plugins are clipping.. most plugins have meters monitoring input.. make sure none of them are clipping while the audio sounds like its clipping.
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04-07-2014, 09:33 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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Everything worked fine for three months (when I started recording). The input sources were not clipping, no clipping on the recorded parts. Listened to the tunes and was very happy having finally arrived at the mixing stage.
Then suddenly, there is this clipping sound.
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04-07-2014, 09:38 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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I made a new test today.
Only recorded one piece of acoustic guitar. It does not top out on the track. Did not increase the volume inside the track afterwards. I especially checked there is no "distorted" part due to too high in-signal or anything like that.
No plugin is being used only the "pure" signal of the acoustic guitar.
Result: The sound is clipping.
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04-07-2014, 10:01 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 649
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If there is no visible clipping when looking at the wave in reaper then my guess is the clipping is occurring in the preamp on the way into reaper.
Or are you saying you recorded something awhile back and everything was fine and now, suddenly, clipping is heard on playback?
__________________
Give me back my Loc-Nar ! No, It's my Loc-Nar !
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04-07-2014, 10:34 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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My knowledge of this subject is as mentioned unfortunately very limited.
I am not using any pre-amp (only have my acoustic guitar connected with a cable to the sound-card).
Lucian, exactly - everything was fine with the recorded pieces for three months. Recently the clipping appeared from "nowhere".
Trying to apply the changes I made in Master Limiter, but they do not yet seem to affect the tune inside Reaper. Trying to find out if I need to do anything specifically to make them work?
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04-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningbakery
I am a bit of noob but have been using Reaper with no real trouble for a year. Mainly recording acoustic guitar and vocals with a M-Audio Fast Track Pro interface....
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Are your speakers connected to this device as well for output? If so then the this device could be overdriven if a volume knob was inadvertently turned up. The preamp is most likely integrated into the sound card as an all-in-one device.
If it has no knobs than there should be a mixer application associated with it that you can look at.
Finally, I am unsure if you are on windows but if you are using the OS for sound output maybe just the windows volume on your soundcard is too high?
If everything was working 3 months ago, I would guess some volume knob in your playback audio path got turned up accidentally and the cause is outside of Reaper since all looks well inside Reaper. Whatever you are using for your soundcard is my best guess as it will have an input/output as well and if the input is on 10 and the output is 1, it will clip but still be quiet.
Another thing to check: When you open reaper, in the upper right of the title bar is your latency display, click on those numbers to open how reaper sees your soundcard and post back what is displayed...like device = waveout or ASIO.
Sorry about the delay, I am at work hehe
__________________
Give me back my Loc-Nar ! No, It's my Loc-Nar !
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04-07-2014, 12:34 PM
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#12
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningbakery
My knowledge of this subject is as mentioned unfortunately very limited.
I am not using any pre-amp (only have my acoustic guitar connected with a cable to the sound-card).
Lucian, exactly - everything was fine with the recorded pieces for three months. Recently the clipping appeared from "nowhere".
Trying to apply the changes I made in Master Limiter, but they do not yet seem to affect the tune inside Reaper. Trying to find out if I need to do anything specifically to make them work?
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Try different settings of buffer size in Reaper Preferences, start with 128, 256, 518 and 1024, maybe this could be the reason (wrong setting!).
Sometimes I forget to toggle my M-Audio back to Analog Inputs when I had to use Digital Inputs; and next time I started the project without using any digital connections, but I forget to switch Audio Interface to Analog Inputs, then I get the problems you have now -> clipping Sound.
And by the way, a limiter plugin will not avoid clipping if the input gain of your interface is too high !
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04-07-2014, 01:17 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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This may sound dumb, but all of us have made some dumb mistakes along the way.... But has you master buss fader been raised, by chance? Is the project sample rate and bit depth set for the same sample rate and bit depth as the soundcard?
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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04-07-2014, 03:14 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 272
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I've found Reaper's master out meter to be pretty reliable. If you aren't getting the red 'warning light' happening it isn't exceeding zero, except maybe at inter sample level and that wouldn't be immediately obvious in the way you are describing.
Sometimes buffer glitching can sound like clipping distortion. As the poster before mentioned, make sure you don't have your sound card latency set too low. If you are just recording acoustic and not running tons of plug-ins, though, this sounds like an unlikely explanation for the problem.
Open your sound card driver interface software and make sure the meters on there look ok when you play your guitar.
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04-07-2014, 05:17 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: MD
Posts: 293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningbakery
Hi there,
I am a bit of noob but have been using Reaper with no real trouble for a year. Mainly recording acoustic guitar and vocals with a M-Audio Fast Track Pro interface.
1) As I am about to start mixing my recorded songs, there is this clipping sound. How could I solve this? It did not help lowering the Master lever as low as down to -19,5 db.
2) In order to do some very basic mastering, I would need to use a limiter I understand. Mainly just to increase the output volume (as some friends will listen to my songs on their computers/smart phones). I have heard there might be a built-in plugin in Reaper. I have no experience using any limiter or any plugins in Reaper before.
Very helpful if someone may be able helping me. I am running Reaper 64 BIT.
Many Thanks in advance! :-)
Chris (morningbakery)
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Try Gclip
__________________
Charles-Miller Wabeno
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04-08-2014, 04:49 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 14
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Many many thanks for all your replies so far! Is very appreciated!
I am sure I now will get this fixed somehow.
A little thing I noticed: there is a lot less clipping, when listening through the external soundcard, compared to when listening "only" through the computer.
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