Old 01-28-2015, 04:43 PM   #1
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Default v5.0pre9 - January 28 2015

v5.0pre9 - January 28 2015
+ FX Browser: smart folders (filter-folders)
+ FX browser: options to view JSFX by description and/or filename
+ MIDI learn: fixed action binding corner-case in relatve modes 2 and 3
+ Ripple editing: fixed moving items with other locked items at same position [issueid=5490]
+ Ripple editing: removing time in one-track and all-track mode better respects QN preferences for markers, items, and envelopes
# Automation: automatically create per-take envelopes when tweaking FX parameters in envelope write mode, if preference enabled
# Automation: button to open per-take envelope dialog
# Automation: support for copying per-take envelopes from one take to another by dragging the envelope button
# Automation: take envelopes obey preference to only draw overlapping above a certain height
# Fixed "modify MIDI CC/mousewheel" actions
# VST: fixed some plugins refusing to accept the user setting an .RPL preset
# Video: allow automation on take FX processors
# Video: param button for accessing parameters
# Video: processors support user presets
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:45 PM   #2
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awesome stuff devs! thanks
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:57 PM   #3
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The take (FX) envelopes stuff is great!
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:02 PM   #4
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Smart folders are brilliant! Can we have subfolders to that?
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:33 PM   #5
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smart folders are indeed smart -
checking out auto item tweaks too - thanks.


would be great if mousewheel worked in the fx window
left pane for example to go to next/previous folder. would be speedy
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:40 PM   #6
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Bug:
Per-take envelope mode entries get doubled by choosing.

https://i.imgur.com/ViSzw0k.gif
(also temporal glitch in this one as there's initially no label on the dropdown, but I've only seen this once so far)

Nice additions, thank you.
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Per-take envelope mode entries get doubled by choosing.
Oops, that was dumb. Fixing, thanks...
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Old 01-28-2015, 05:42 PM   #8
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I'll post the bugs I collected here again (happened to be on irc and already relayed them there).

Windows 7 x64 with Reaper 5.0 pre9 x64 running in a portable install.

Nice progress on the envelope button on the items. Still the old clickery-do game on that window That IS on your agenda for fixing/upgrading in some way or another, right ?


Possible issue
One parameter for ReaEQ is activated and armed for an item-fx, First Band Frequency
I'm activating a second parameter, the 7th band frequency. The first envelope now gets half the vertical space. That's expected.

The second envelope is not showing up. The mouse cursor isn't changing anywhere either.



Some value has been set too, but no envelope. I tried activating it via the "Param"button but no envelope shows up there either. It would be great to include access to the Envelope window in the "Param" button menu, perhaps just right at the bottom or top.

Another possible issue:
When in LATCH mode, I move the 7-band frequency control, and the 1-band frequency envelope(the other activated and armed parameter) starts recording as well.

This should not happen in Latch mode. Only the touched stuff should record. Envelope recordings play back fine though. Even for the envelope that isn't drawn.

Inconsistency
"Hide All" button on envelope window for item-fx will hide the item fx envelope(s), but will leave the "Arm" status untouched.

When manually unchecking the "Visible" checkbox, the "Arm" checkbox will be cleared as well, so that isn't consistent.

Usability issue
RIGHT-CLICK menu for the FX button on tracks. The smart folders work, but if the list is long, the mouse scrollwheel does not work for scrolling through the entries.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg R50pre9x64_second_item-fx_envelope_not_showing.jpg (54.1 KB, 1932 views)
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:00 PM   #9
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oh: options to NOT include Reaplugs in smart filters please -


just realising i can't get shot of the blighters.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:13 PM   #10
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smart folders issue: may or may not want to fix, not such a big deal but I can't figure out how to get "reverb" to match and "dereverb" not to match.
Edit: Just got it to work... huh.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argitoth View Post
smart folders issue: may or may not want to fix, not such a big deal but I can't figure out how to get "reverb" to match and "dereverb" not to match.

I tried:

reverb NOT dereverb
NOT dereverb OR reverb

if only we could just use regex for all search dialogs... oh if only...
you have ticked 'smart folder' ? cleared filter list? <i didn't and thought it was broken.

just i have reverb working fine here
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:22 PM   #12
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Smart folders + finding out what they are = instant smile on face!

Very smart indeed devs! Thanks

Also, nice touch with the routing help "?" button now :O)
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:31 PM   #13
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Whoa...

I think I've just read that take fx can have side chains from other items now?

Need to re-read that new help button in routing again to make sure!

EDIT: I might have misread it.. still awesome. Though!

One other thing about item automation is that we can now put reverb on items and have a proper way of fading them out so they don't get cut off
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:42 PM   #14
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A comment about the current theme, TCP (I saw WT opened a dedicated thread, but it doesn't fit 100% there)

Imo when pan mode of a track is set to Stereo balance / mono pan, the width knob should disappear. Reason: A stereo balance / mono pan on a real desk is just one knob, there's no dedicated control over stereo width, so when using this mode I think it could be assumed the user doesn't need width control in this case (+ it would gain more space in the TCP for other stuff using this mode).

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Old 01-28-2015, 07:23 PM   #15
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With all this amazing item envelope stuff, there's only one thing missing from making it the ultimate sound design tool..

A "rate" envelope.

(to change both pitch and time in sync like a varispeed per item.)

I know visibly representing rate on a waveform is a nightmare but what if it didn't change how the waveform looked and simply allowed the envelope to affect rate?

That would be enough and make a lot of people happy

The other easier way is since you already allow stretch markers to change rate (if you untick "preserve rate when changing rate",) could we just have this but have a "speed" box next to it in item properties that would allow the speed to be slower than just instant like it is now.

Adding 100ms of "speed" would mean it took 100ms to get from say "1.00" rate to new rate of "0.7" instead of instant.

That would also have the benefit of representing the waveform near enough correctly too.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:52 PM   #16
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Default item automation bugs

Found these two things when playing..

1. "render item to new take" does not include any item automation in the bounce. Items end up being static. (think this might have been mentioned already but just in case as it's a biggy.)

2. Sometimes some envelopes won't show when all envelope lanes are showing one below the other and only show up again when in the overlapping view (i.e. when you shrink the item enough vertically in height.) This was particular repeatable on the 2nd effect of the item.

(did I mention already how awesome though it is having item fx envelopes?)
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Whoa...

I think I've just read that take fx can have side chains from other items now?

Need to re-read that new help button in routing again to make sure!

EDIT: I might have misread it.. still awesome. Though!
Actually I have understood it the same way (well spotted btw.).
Couldn't see a way to make it happen either though.

But who knows - maybe it's an unintended teaser what's to come.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
v5.0pre9 - January 28 2015
+ FX Browser: smart folders (filter-folders)
+ FX browser: options to view JSFX by description and/or filename
Great! Always glad to see FX Browser improvements.

Hey, wouldn't something this this be great for the Media Explorer (since people may have 50-100 plugins, but tens of thousands of samples)?

I'm sure even some minor improvements in this area would make a lot of people happy...
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap View Post
Great! Always glad to see FX Browser improvements.

Hey, wouldn't something this this be great for the Media Explorer (since people may have 50-100 plugins, but tens of thousands of samples)?

I'm sure even some minor improvements in this area would make a lot of people happy...
This, meta data included in search and sub folder searching would be great. I'm sure one of these should make 5 at least.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:03 PM   #20
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Awesome Pre!

While the FX Browser is in the spotlight I'd like to draw attention to a few simple FRs:

Additional Features:

"Just a simple addition [...] when I find I want to find the .dll that is associated with a particular plugin, I would like to have, in the right click menu, a "open file location" type of menu option.
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3084

"One thing I really enjoy in Windows 7 is the fact that you can press one key - the win-key - type three letters, and then you often only need to push enter to open the desired program. [...] When opening the FX browser, the cursor should be blinking readily in the search field - AND the search results that are narrowed down should automatically be highlighted, so that I don't have to use the mouse to select them."
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3095
^ Probably as an option "Automatically highlight search field in FX Browser" somewhere in preferences.


Organization:

"At the moment, most files in the JS FX folders are listed in the FX Browser. Currently .png files are excluded. I keep other files in those folders for ease of access - so my FX browser is cluttered with .txt, .xcf. xls and .txt files (among others)"
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4838

"[...] adding a "+" sign in front the main folders in the FX Browser like we have it in Windows Explorer:"
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2456

"Please set double click on fx chains to open a list of the fx chain folders, just like it does for "all plugins" and "my folders"
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3250
Similar FR, may need merging with other FR actually:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2728

"To create subfolders [in My Folders] and sort them alphabetically"
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=637
^ Note, second part of this FR is implemented already.

"1. Change the order of user created folders in the FX browser (drag and drop).
2. Use collapsible subfolders (also with drag and drop)
3. Change order of items within folders and subfolders (drag and drop again)."
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1703

Note quite FX browser but:
"In the right-click >> "Add FX" >> "Recently used" menu [effects] are listed in alphabetical order (based on the full path name, for JS FX), within category."
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4887
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1998 (duplicate)

And some house cleaning - this is just silly and a quick way to chop an FR off the list:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2091

Last edited by Fergler; 01-29-2015 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
v5.0pre9 - January 28 2015
# Automation: support for copying per-take envelopes from one take to another by dragging the envelope button
thank you devs!!!
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:18 PM   #22
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Oh, and also in this thread I pointed out a small bug with the new sidechain routing:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...16&postcount=6
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:29 PM   #23
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A little bug: when "Show JSFX filenames and descriptions" is enabled, a right square bracket is added to JS effects names in the mixer. The same thing happens in the right-click menu of FX buttons.


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Old 01-28-2015, 09:30 PM   #24
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Default Regarding Take-FX Automation

There seems to be some serious optimization issues with Take-FX automation.

How to reproduce:
I created a track with a small 2sec. item, added ReaPitch as a take-fx, then created a simple automation curve for just one parameter. Click play and everything seems fine, however if I then duplicate the track and click play, my CPU maxes out and it takes a couple of minutes before I can get REAPER to stop.

Second issue:
Do the same as above but don't click play, just scrub around instead. Sometimes when doing fast scrub motions and releasing the mouse button, you'll notice that the values of each instance of the take-fx are out of sync.

The system I'm testing this on is an old winXP single-core laptop, I haven't tried this out yet on my quad-core sys., but still, you would think that such a simple example wouldn't be maxing out the CPU.

As a side note;
The devs might want to study the the item/clip automation system of FL-Studio, it really is top-notch, rock solid, always in sync. The only thing missing is OSC support but still the best automation sys of all the DAWs I've used over the past 20yrs. Here is a nice breakdown of the features and a link to a youtube vid in this post from Argitoth.., http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=86

Thanks
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:45 PM   #25
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wondering about this:

whenever I install any of the 5.x pre's, they alter the VST locations in the pref's so that the last one is the C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3 folder...

I wish the installer would not do that... I wish it would leave it up to the user to enter whatever they want and not automatically do that for them.

Or.. is this something that just happens when it scans at reaper's launch?

PS... I'm very with Fergler on one point for the FX Browser... that is being able to organize by drag and drop... that's been a sore spot with me forever. Move up, down, top, bottom really is tedious.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Awesome Pre!

While the FX Browser is in the spotlight I'd like to draw attention to a few simple FRs:
You missed a few

-FX Browser: Show FX Chains in tree lists by folder (like "My Folders", "All Plugins"). I have over 800 chains, so this would be a big help.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=142651

-Show every preset manually saved from all plugins together in a section of the FX Browser (with FX/Instrument subtrees). If these presets were good enough to save, I want easy access to them. Being able to see all of your favorite presets in once place is not just convenient, but can lead to better creative decisions.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=142199


-This is a big one, consolidate all presets from instruments that auto-populate Reaper's FX window into an FX preset section (perhaps a subtree of VSTi) so we can filter and find similar sounds regardless of the plugin (i.e. type "keys" or "pad" and have a list full of those sounds from every plugin)..
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:10 PM   #27
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I like Fergler's suggestions... but especially:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
When opening the FX browser, the cursor should be blinking readily in the search field - AND the search results that are narrowed down should automatically be highlighted, so that I don't have to use the mouse to select them."
God yes... efficient mouseless FX selecting would be great ("shift-tab / down-arrow / enter" is a pain...), and as that FR says, for the action menu as well: open them with the search box focused, let us whittle it down and either up/down arrow or just hit enter on whatever is selected already and bam, get back to work. Otherwise it's a frustrating bit of very unnecessary friction that you feel every time you add an effect...

And thanks for the good work so far!
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
v5.0pre9 - January 28 2015
+ FX Browser: smart folders (filter-folders)
+ FX browser: options to view JSFX by description and/or filename
Not sure how to enable smart folders? Don't see an option anywhere.

JS FX still need some fixes/edits in their desc, some are still written in all lowercase (would be nice if they're properly capitalized). Some simply have too long descriptions ("Bit Reduction and Dither with psychoacoustic noise shaping" (there are two of them that are exactly the same feature-wise one in MIDI folder one in Sstillwell folder! One should go, no?), "Turn audio signal into velocity-sensitive drum trigger" - way too long!). Some have redundancy in their desc ("Butterworth Filter 4-pole Filter", "Chebyshev Filter 4-pole Filter") Names should be shorter and to the point.

EDIT: there are two JS that have exactly the same name, this needs to be handled better - "compscope_src -> compressor -> compscope".

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Old 01-29-2015, 01:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Not sure how to enable smart folders? Don't see an option anywhere.
There is a checkbox when making a new folder via right-click.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:29 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
This FR was already implemented, at some point:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1998
That one is not fully fixed. It's sorting recent FX by date in FX browser, but NOT in the right-click the FX button on track menu.
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clepsydrae View Post
There is a checkbox when making a new folder via right-click.
Ah, I see. Hmm. Is nice, but a tag-based plugin search would be nicer.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
# Automation: button to open per-take envelope dialog
What's the PNG name we need to use to skin this? item_env_on/off.png, perhaps?
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:37 AM   #33
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Bug when copying item envelope from one item to another item - on the second item no envelope was enabled:

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Old 01-29-2015, 02:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
item_env_on/off.png, perhaps?
yes that's the names. I was hoping for item_env_read, item_env touch etc, but they don't seem to exist. It would be good to see the take automation mode on that button, methinks.

Last edited by gofer; 01-29-2015 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Bug: Per-take envelope mode entries get doubled by choosing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Oops, that was dumb. Fixing, thanks...
I just found that too and some weird behaviour from FX params.

I selected "Touch" from the dropdown and tried tweaking some VST params (Fuzzpilz Charsiesis) but it won't let me. The knobs don't move (or possibly move a tiny bit then stick) but it does create Take FX envelopes for the params I touch.

I'm guessing that's related to the mode dropdown bug, perhaps it's in "Read" mode but it's showing that "Touch" is selected?

Awesome changes!
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:58 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Bug when copying item envelope from one item to another item - on the second item no envelope was enabled:

With take volume the copied envelope gets enabled and points are copied, but all with a volume of 54dB or so. Pan/mute/pitch and fx parameter envelopes seem to copy alright.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:05 AM   #37
matthewjumpsoffbuildings
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great to see some work on the fx browser! of the FRs fergler mentioned, nested, collapsible folders would be especially nice if the FX browser is getting some more love
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Last edited by matthewjumpsoffbuildings; 01-29-2015 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:08 AM   #38
EvilDragon
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Would be cool to have options for looping the envelope with the item if Loop Source is enabled, and ghosting the take automation if the items are ghosted as well.


This brings the need for ghosted audio items, too, I suppose?


gpunk was right. If devs add the possibility to actually link these item FX automation lanes to TRACK FX, we have automation items. What happens if we have multiple items occupying the same duration in the timeline (FIPM, or multiple takes playing stacked)? Envelopes should be either multiplying or summing each other in that case, so you have the sum of all automation for a particular parameter in this regard. If this happens for v5, we would definitely need an action to coalesce all take FX automation back to the automation lane (along with an option of REPLACING the existing automation lane, or MERGING/SUMMING/MULTIPLYING it).
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:47 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
When opening the FX browser, the cursor should be blinking readily in the search field - AND the search results that are narrowed down should automatically be highlighted, so that I don't have to use the mouse to select them."
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3095
^ Probably as an option "Automatically highlight search field in FX Browser" somewhere in preferences.
Caution !
This FR once again implies the dreaded "Focus Stealing", one of Reaper's biggest flaws for many people.
A rethinking of that dilemma is overdue so that both workflow concepts are possible - what Fergler describes, as well as making the plain keys useable for DAW/edit commands even when child windows are open.
I can where see your FR would make sense for some, but like you said yourself, it has to be optional, and let me add that it better be part of a general choice/option for keyboard focus behaviour regarding child windows.
+1 on your other requests.
ymmv, as always,
peace,
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:49 AM   #40
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All that would be awesome Indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Would be cool to have options for looping the envelope with the item if Loop Source is enabled, and ghosting the take automation if the items are ghosted as well.


This brings the need for ghosted audio items, too, I suppose?


gpunk was right. If devs add the possibility to actually link these item FX automation lanes to TRACK FX, we have automation items. What happens if we have multiple items occupying the same duration in the timeline (FIPM, or multiple takes playing stacked)? Envelopes should be either multiplying or summing each other in that case, so you have the sum of all automation for a particular parameter in this regard. If this happens for v5, we would definitely need an action to coalesce all take FX automation back to the automation lane (along with an option of REPLACING the existing automation lane, or MERGING/SUMMING/MULTIPLYING it).
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