Old 04-07-2014, 10:18 PM   #1
Lawrence
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Default FX Sends

Is there a way to just click the send below and open the FX from the FX bus, a way to just click that send and open that reverb plugin without having to navigate all the way over to track 50 where it's inserted?

If there is, please advise. The only actions I see are "Open FX for last touched track."

P.S. There's a workflow issue there with hidden tracks also. If my "FX bus" is hidden (don't need to ever see it in the console, only will tweak it's plugs) "Goto Send Destination" doesn't do anything, when it should probably do the logical thing and show the track so I can open the plugin from there.

Thanks.



Anyway, this has always been a little unusual to me because both Cubase and S1 open their FX return plugs from the channel's send.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:37 PM   #2
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Can't see it happening with the one track type Lawrence.

Wish it could.

How about if there was a separate page in the project bay for sends?
Any track that has a receive is listed there with its fx.

I don't know, my 2 cents anyway.

It would be great to hide the aux track but still be able to tweak the reverb, delays..etc
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:11 PM   #3
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Cockos could probably place an action to do that right in the context menu of that send.

"Open FX chain on send 1 target track"
"Open FX chain on send 2 target track"
"Open FX chain on send 3 target track"
"Open FX chain on send 4 target track"
"Open FX chain on send 5 target track"
"Open FX chain on send 6 target track"
and so on...

Those actions would apply to the currently selected track.

Would that help ? Then ask for it.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by airon View Post
Would that help ? Then ask for it.
Ok, I'll make an official FR.

I asked because I figured there must be another way already that I was missing, that everyone, like yourself and Kenny Gioia and others who probably mix in Reaper more than me weren't actually physically traveling to the FX bus every time they wanted to tweak a send plugin like that, that either there was another way and/or somebody had asked already.

Thanks Airon.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:04 AM   #5
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Vote here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5151

Bug Report for hidden tracks: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5152

Quote:
"Open FX chain on send 1 (2,3,4, etc) target track"
There would only need to be one action for all of it (the request)...

"Open Destination Plugin (or chain)"

To open the first plug or chain from whatever destination track the clicked send is going to and (imo) it should probably also be assignable to direct left click on the send with mouse mods since there are already multiple ways to call the routing panel.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-08-2014 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
[...] To open the first plug or chain from whatever destination track the source send is going to [...]
There may be some tricky corner cases here, for example: when the first plugin in that chain actually does not have any audio pins connected to the send. Since REAPER's routing is so flexible, there may be many cases where simply opening the first effect in the chain may be more confusing than helpful. So, perhaps opening the entire chain would be best.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:45 AM   #7
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Yes, "chain" makes more sense.

As to the function, I'd actually just ask for a new little button on every send, kinda like Cubase's "e" button, so everything else could remain exactly as it is now and there wouldn't be a need to call a context menu for something that should probably be directly accessible.

The button could be dual purpose. If there are plugs on the destination, open the fx chain, if not, navigate to the track, in either circumstance, "edit" the destination.

The biggest problem with Reaper's sends (imo) is that they don't use enough vertical space to show common things like "edit" or send pans or pre/post, when space isn't even really at a premium there.

Look how tiny that send is, and how the only direct control is with the send level, compared to Cubendo and S1 below. You can't even tell (just by looking at it) if the send is pre or post fader...







So I also wonder why they even have to be so tiny, and require context menus or popups for the other stuff.

I also think that's why PT 11 added the optional expansion of send panels, because mix guys were getting really tired of always popping up additional windows to edit them when they had these high resolution monitors with a ton of empty vertical space in the mix console, and very little direct control over the sends on the little gray button thing... not to mention having more visible feedback of status across the entire mix console.



P.S. This below, Bitwig, is also a subjectively flawed design, not so much graphically, more because there are no send pans on those sends at all. But as you can see below, pre and post sends have clear color distinctions, so the current status of that setting is visual, blue being pre fader ... but it also doesn't call the FX UI from the send, double clicking the knob resets it to infinity, a subjectively odd choice.



Vegas (10) also shows pre/post status on every send but it also doesn't open the FX chain from Bus A below on double click, when it probably easily could...



Thanks Banned.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-08-2014 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
As to the function, I'd actually just ask for a new little button on every send, kinda like Cubase's "e" button, so everything else could remain exactly as it is now and there wouldn't be a need to call a context menu for something that should probably be directly accessible.

The button could be dual purpose. If there are plugs on the destination, open the fx chain, if not, navigate to the track, in either circumstance, "edit" the destination.

The biggest problem with Reaper's sends (imo) is that they don't use enough vertical space to show common things like "edit" or send pans or pre/post, when space isn't even really at a premium there.

Look how tiny that send is, and how the only direct control is with the send level, compared to Cubendo and S1 below. You can't even tell (just by looking at it) if the send is pre or post fader...
That seems to be a Theming/WALTER discussion as well...
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:08 AM   #9
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Track manager or FX manager windows? I always keep those open on a second monitor because it is so much easier/faster to access anything track/fx related from there and also addresses hidden tracks. Just an FYI sorry if I misinterpreted.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
That seems to be a Theming/WALTER discussion as well...
Yeah, I suppose.

You could double the height of the send slot, add a panner and a pre/post button and an e button right on the UI under the level, and it would still be vertically smaller than all the others shown above.



So that design isn't (imo, mmv) a very good one, for the end user, for accessibility, workflow. It's a relative right click fest for editing the sends.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Track manager or FX manager windows? I always keep those open on a second monitor because it is so much easier/faster to access anything track/fx related from there and also addresses hidden tracks. Just an FYI sorry if I misinterpreted.
I hear you.

I might disagree that moving the mouse over to the track manager, and opening a plug from there is faster than just clicking a send on a channel you're already working on. In my example you'd still have to scroll to track 40 or 50 in the track manager to get to that track... or go to another window with the FX manager.

But if it works for you that's cool. Good discussion anyway.

Thanks Karbo.

At any rate, as to the other thing ... here's the full screen mixer at 1366x768 (low resolution laptop). Is it really necessary to see 12 send slots there or might it be better to see 6 (double the current height) with much more direct UI control and visual feedback across the entire console? Imo, the rest of it, the empty sends slots, is just wasted UI space, even more so on a high resolution monitor.


Last edited by Lawrence; 04-08-2014 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I hear you.

I might disagree that moving the mouse over to the track manager, and opening a plug from there is faster than just clicking a send on a channel you're already working on.
Depends on how the user habits I suppose, I'm already in that window 90% of the time since it supports swiping etc. I never have 50 tracks to scroll through to begin with due to track manager features. However, that' doesn't mean what you want wouldn't be good/better, I just wanted to promote those windows because they are indispensable and typically grossly overlooked and underrated (because they aren't pretty) which doesn't really concern your request per se so it's an FYI for everyone.
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Old 04-08-2014, 07:44 AM   #13
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Makes sense, thanks a lot Karbo.

At it's root the FR re: calling the FX plug directly is ...

"Click on what you're already looking at (the FX send) and edit it (the plugin)."

... which is how most if not all of the others seem to work. The deviation away from that doesn't appear to make the general mixing workflow better.

Thanks all.
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