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12-16-2011, 08:34 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Anaconda, Montana
Posts: 364
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Why Is Reaper Never Mentioned As A Top Notch DAW Like Pro Tools, Cubase, Sonar??
I love Reaper! I've been with Cubase and Sonar before. But for some strange reason, you never hear Reaper listed as suggested DAWs in other books, websites, etc. You ALWAYS hear about Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Pro Tools, Reason, and so on. Yet never Reaper. Sure, on this forum it is, but did you ever check out other recording forums? Some do, but it's like a minor reference.
Reaper has been around for a decade or so. Why the lack of acknowlegement?? Obviously, competitors won't do so but there are tons of audio recording books out there that never mention Reaper at all (by authors who aren't connected with any corporate system).
Is it because they are TOO cheap for the cost of such a great program? All the ones recommended by others are 10 times more expensive!! Sometimes, if you under-price the competition too much, people tend to think you have a basic, entry-level program with very few features. But I know this is not so with Reaper. It has them all beat in my opinion.
Everyone in life is out to make a profit. Isn't Reaper? I'm SO GLAD it's this reasonable, but how can they grow and continue to lose millions of dollars by not being in the ballpark with the others? What would they lose if they charged more? Nothing, because other lower-priced DAWs suck and people would know it; therefore, they would get the business anyway.
Then again, maybe soon down the road Reaper WILL charge $500 for a fully functional program if they figure this out. I HOPE NOT!! I love Reaper but you do have to wonder why they aren't acknowleged after all these years...
Mike
Last edited by MikeF; 12-20-2011 at 11:10 PM.
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12-16-2011, 09:02 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
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No good option for a fully integrated control surface.
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12-16-2011, 09:08 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Anaconda, Montana
Posts: 364
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Huh?? You lost me there. What do you mean by no good option??
Last edited by MikeF; 12-20-2011 at 11:06 PM.
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07-09-2015, 03:41 PM
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#4
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Philippines
Posts: 741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell
No good option for a fully integrated control surface.
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What is a fully integrated control surface?
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07-09-2015, 03:46 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,905
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Seriously Byre,
Because of it's hardware "intergration", I nearly went insane over 5 years or more hoping I would go more than an hour or two without a crash with ProTools 7 to 8 and my 002 Rack! It took Reaper and the 002 Rack once I got a firm to mod it and then repair their mod for me to have only a crash every day!
And that was not Reapers fault.
Seriously Byre...
Grinder
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07-10-2015, 12:29 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 699
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@Grinder
I have never had PT Lite or Heavy crash on me(Mac only). Reaper has never crashed on anything (Mac or PC). Soundscape only crashed when the PC's video card went on the blink. Radar (48-track system from 2002, but kept up-to-date) has never failed.
Something tells me that you or somebody has done something silly.
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12-16-2011, 09:12 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF
Is it because they are TOO cheap for the cost of such a great program?
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It's because they think it's free!
Pro studios are slaves to customers expectations. A studio I've used, which specialises in film work, was perfectly happy with Nuendo, which is no toy, but, with great reluctance, they dumped it in favour of Pro Tools, because Pro Tools is what their corporate customers expected them to use.
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12-16-2011, 09:19 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Not LA.
Posts: 151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
It's because they think it's free!
Pro studios are slaves to customers expectations. A studio I've used, which specialises in film work, was perfectly happy with Nuendo, which is no toy, but, with great reluctance, they dumped it in favour of Pro Tools, because Pro Tools is what their corporate customers expected them to use.
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Advertising $$$ is a huge reason, I suspect. Ad campaigns in SOS, Mix, EQ etc etc generate a lot of attention, and when you are beat over the head monthly with the same ads, same reviews of the same manufacturers, you get disconnected from other options.
SOS has a Reaper section, that says a lot for a young DAW.
It will spread, remember pro tools is 20 years old, Cubase is about the same and even Logic et al have been around since the mid to late 90's.
Give it time I would say. Once the pro studios embrace it, it will spread like wildfire.
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12-16-2011, 09:23 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,859
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What southpaw said. I think that Cockos doesn't do any sort of marketing bs, and I love that. And here we all are using it anyway. I think that anyone who visits recording forums knows about Reaper by word of mouth.
__________________
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.
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12-16-2011, 09:24 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,012
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FWIW, Sonar is rarely mentioned as well...
Reapers main distribution method is the internet; sure it comes on CM magazines and other sources, but you can't go into a music store. I believe many users of DAW software wouldn't check the internet first but go to a store and talk to the sales people, who would recommend something they sell.
Also some of the default settings in Reaper are enough to drive casual new users away quickly...
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12-16-2011, 09:26 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Anaconda, Montana
Posts: 364
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I hope so, Southpaw!! It sucks that advetising big wigs control what people know (or what they want them to know). I just hope Reaper stays reasonable AFTER the word gets out how great a program it truly is. You know, there are two things that make the world go round: money and lies (ha-ha). But I hope Reaper keeps growing profit-wise by volume and leaves prices fair.
I also might ad: It's the BEST forum for support and feedback of any recording forum I've ever been in (by a major long shot). I'm sure you would agree.
Mike
Last edited by MikeF; 12-20-2011 at 11:10 PM.
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12-16-2011, 09:31 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Anaconda, Montana
Posts: 364
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Hey, Eyes, I hear you. I'm still a newbie but I'm learning a lot. You know what? I never found Reaper's default settings intimidating at all. It's GREAT when a program has a lot of default settings just to have something to start with during the learning curve. As you know, it's so easy in Reaper to change any default settings anywhere, anytime.
Mike
Last edited by MikeF; 12-20-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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12-17-2011, 05:08 AM
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#13
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw
Advertising $$$ is a huge reason, I suspect.
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Quite so.
Check out how often in audio mags you see a glowing review of a product with a full page ad not so far away .....
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12-17-2011, 06:26 AM
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#14
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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'Never' mentioned doesn't seem very accurate to me, but I take your point.
Dunno; perhaps some manufacturers get their impressions of DAW market share from their retailers, which traditionally has probably been a fair method for accessing that information. Like many other online-based products, however, Reaper has very little presence in the bricks'n'mortar retail market, which is only one of the reasons you could suggest how out of touch those places are.
The question of celebrity endorsement is a simple one, from my perspective. It is a system with such widespread corruption (oh god, like you would not believe) that its impossible for the end user to know whether any endorsement or 'casual interview mention' is authentic. Unauthentic endorsement is, I would guess, still much the minority taking the market as a whole, but for some companies it would be majority of their marketing message, and its very effective; users love to swap stories of the 'pr0s' that they think use the same stuff as them. It makes the whoile practice effective but essentially meaningless to the degree where engaging with it is just ...lame. Who uses Reaper is their own private information, which is a very good thing ...perhaps some very impressive people and organisations use Reaper, but that should have no impact whatsoever on any single user deciding if Reaper is appropriate for them. That decision should be made solely on the basis of the trial and how well Reaper might 'fit' for them. That way, everyone who comes to Reaper will do so for honest, accurate and transparent reasons.
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12-17-2011, 06:40 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,012
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I saw on Youtube a number of tutorials Fabfilter made for their plugins and mixing/mastering in general. All done in Reaper. Many of the videos NI have done recently for their own products (things like Damage are not theirs) show off Reaper.
That sort of 'indirect endorsement' is likely to catch the eye of Reapers target audience more than a 'pr0' going on about it.
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12-17-2011, 10:10 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamburg and Heidelberg
Posts: 670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
'Never' mentioned doesn't seem very accurate to me, but I take your point.
Dunno; perhaps some manufacturers get their impressions of DAW market share from their retailers, which traditionally has probably been a fair method for accessing that information. Like many other online-based products, however, Reaper has very little presence in the bricks'n'mortar retail market, which is only one of the reasons you could suggest how out of touch those places are.
The question of celebrity endorsement is a simple one, from my perspective. It is a system with such widespread corruption (oh god, like you would not believe) that its impossible for the end user to know whether any endorsement or 'casual interview mention' is authentic. Unauthentic endorsement is, I would guess, still much the minority taking the market as a whole, but for some companies it would be majority of their marketing message, and its very effective; users love to swap stories of the 'pr0s' that they think use the same stuff as them. It makes the whoile practice effective but essentially meaningless to the degree where engaging with it is just ...lame. Who uses Reaper is their own private information, which is a very good thing ...perhaps some very impressive people and organisations use Reaper, but that should have no impact whatsoever on any single user deciding if Reaper is appropriate for them. That decision should be made solely on the basis of the trial and how well Reaper might 'fit' for them. That way, everyone who comes to Reaper will do so for honest, accurate and transparent reasons.
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Great post. And just add to that - all what you say leads young or seasoned people who choose a daw to ask "what do others use". Now in our societies a whole lot of musicians use cracked software (another topic, sure, but it's a fact) - and so those newcomers think "if so many use a cracked Cubase" (or Logic or XYZ) it IS good.
I am sure that adds to the party. Many do use software without paying, and so they learn "Cubase is the best" or whatever.
Surely Reaper (for whatever reason, lol) would be cracked too (my, what would you say). But it surely is not the number 1 choice of people.
So, like White Tie said - people who use Reaper got it recommended from those who love using it, or tried it themselves. And Reaper IS used a lot. Maybe a few musicians don't like to talk much about what they use.
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12-17-2011, 11:56 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Brandon, FL
Posts: 257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
'Never' mentioned doesn't seem very accurate to me, but I take your point.
Dunno; perhaps some manufacturers get their impressions of DAW market share from their retailers, which traditionally has probably been a fair method for accessing that information. Like many other online-based products, however, Reaper has very little presence in the bricks'n'mortar retail market, which is only one of the reasons you could suggest how out of touch those places are.
The question of celebrity endorsement is a simple one, from my perspective. It is a system with such widespread corruption (oh god, like you would not believe) that its impossible for the end user to know whether any endorsement or 'casual interview mention' is authentic. Unauthentic endorsement is, I would guess, still much the minority taking the market as a whole, but for some companies it would be majority of their marketing message, and its very effective; users love to swap stories of the 'pr0s' that they think use the same stuff as them. It makes the whoile practice effective but essentially meaningless to the degree where engaging with it is just ...lame. Who uses Reaper is their own private information, which is a very good thing ...perhaps some very impressive people and organisations use Reaper, but that should have no impact whatsoever on any single user deciding if Reaper is appropriate for them. That decision should be made solely on the basis of the trial and how well Reaper might 'fit' for them. That way, everyone who comes to Reaper will do so for honest, accurate and transparent reasons.
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Celebrity endorsement doesn't mean so much to me after talking to world class bassist Jeff Berlin at a guitar show. I asked him what kind of bass he was playing because the logo was covered by a piece of electricians tape. He said it was built by Peavey. I asked what was up with the tape covering the logo and he said it was because Peavey wouldn't pay him to play it.
Now he plays a signature Jeff Berlin bass by Dean guitars. I guess he found someone who would pay him. (So that tells me that all things being equal, an endorsement doesn't mean that much.)
Based on what I've seen, the endorsement of software could be as corrupt as it gets.
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12-17-2011, 02:56 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 323
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I think a few people are missing another side to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie
Who uses Reaper is their own private information, which is a very good thing ...perhaps some very impressive people and organisations use Reaper, but that should have no impact whatsoever on any single user deciding if Reaper is appropriate for them. That decision should be made solely on the basis of the trial and how well Reaper might 'fit' for them. That way, everyone who comes to Reaper will do so for honest, accurate and transparent reasons.
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While this is nice in theory, i never would have even TRIED Reaper if it weren't for my friend Kenny (who made some tutorial vids about it) recommending it to me. And as said above by Eyes, some of the defaults are so frustrating for a new user that if it weren't for Kenny's vote of confidence in the app, i probably wouldn't have stuck it out and spent the better part of a week customizing Reaper to suit me BEFORE deciding if i even liked it and it "fit" for me. (yes it did and i purchased a commercial license..)
Sure, this is different to trying something based off a "celebrity" endorsement.. but is it THAT different?
There are many other times i've tried a product because someone proficient in their field used the product and while i personally didn't know them, i trusted their ability and judgement reflected in their work. Granted it's harder to know it that situation if the person actually uses the product for their work, but ultimately i know i will decide based on my own opinions of using it so i'm just looking for a filter on choices to minimize wasting my time. This isn't about choosing what's "cool" because so-and-so uses it.
I sincerely think you've mixed two points there. People may choose to STAY with Reaper for "honest, accurate, and transparent" reasons. What makes them aware of the product and gives them confidence to even try it can be very different and that's okay.
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Also, apart from compatibility the other reason people will gravitate to the popular choices is for the 'local support network' of engineers in their area. I still spend countless hours helping colleagues/friends out with Pro Tools because not everyone wants to spend their free time reading forums and would plainly rather talk to friends in real life who they trust more. There are languages for each product when it comes to "talking shop" (especially when it's in depth), and the greater the number of fluent speakers around you, the stronger your ability becomes to speak the language. I know of many people who have chosen certain products because of me and others around them they could rely on to help them out. And i've done the same for certain things. It's a practical decision based on resources available to you.
Again, just pointing out another side.
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12-18-2011, 04:00 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southpaw
Advertising $$$ is a huge reason, I suspect. Ad campaigns in SOS, Mix, EQ etc etc generate a lot of attention, and when you are beat over the head monthly with the same ads, same reviews of the same manufacturers, you get disconnected from other options.
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This is our world!
As soon as Reaper spends more on advertising that updates I'm outta here!
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07-03-2015, 12:07 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
It's because they think it's free!
Pro studios are slaves to customers expectations. A studio I've used, which specialises in film work, was perfectly happy with Nuendo, which is no toy, but, with great reluctance, they dumped it in favour of Pro Tools, because Pro Tools is what their corporate customers expected them to use.
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Just rediscovered Samplitude Pro X2 which I had the opportunity to purchase for less than $209.00. Used some previous consumer versions of their Samplitude and found them a bit iffy, Pro X2 however seems excellent so far, it ever has what MAGIX refers to as A "Hybrid (dual) Audio Engine.. Eat that AVID..
After purchasing our new HP Z 640 workstation as part of our > $25K Hard/software project studio upgrades, I was "flabbergasted" to discover that Reaper, during my brief attempt to configure it on the new Z-640 (win 10 is around the corner), suffered a .05 sec MIDI lag which is completely unacceptable for me. Likewise "BlowTools" 11, which has been substantially upgraded still leaves me feeling like I'm dancing with THE German lard assed Fraulein from Hell, wearing steel toed Nazi boots. The frequent Looooong loading times, "required" reboots, lack of VST 3, VCR and surround support, etc, etc, etc (and then some), simply drives me crazy, a "mental state" I don't which to suffer from anymore since i need to get my work done, shall we say, more promptly. Besides I guess I'm not really a good enough fan in regards to AVID's specifications as to what "Industry standard" really is. i do know one thing however, with MY workflow, it sure as Hell ain't what THEY say/think it is..
As part of my workflow demands is my "needs" to more or less retain all VI's and FX plugs UNTIL my project's completed, something quite possible with the Z-640, it's Two Xeon Six core CPU's, 48 GB ECC RAM, Two 1GB SSD's, DVD/BlueRay writer, AMD Firepro W7100 etc..
Sir Calle..
__________________
BorsingStudios.com represents aspiring new talents on a budget by offering studio time/on-line marketing support in the true "spirit of Cockos".
Last edited by BorsingPhoto; 07-03-2015 at 12:23 AM.
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07-03-2015, 12:16 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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@boringphoto
1.) on hardware as you have stated, the expected reaper midi latency should not exceed 11-15 msec, so there must be something else very wrong.
2.) about your nazi shit : has the information already come to Fayetteville,TN, that the war is over ?
Quote:
THE German lard assed Fraulein from Hell, wearing steel toed Nazi boots.
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Last edited by Mink99; 07-03-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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07-03-2015, 12:24 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 652
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cliché murica.
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07-03-2015, 01:06 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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In order to find Fayetteville, you have to aim for Lynchburg and miss.
(directions I received when living in Nashville)
Your studio sounds like a very interesting venture, OP.
But 0.05sec delay in MIDI? I agree with the guy ahead of me something isnt right.
Mind you, in the grand scheme of things what is the real latency in Samp?
I have often wondered about Samp, but the entry price (normal price that is) and apparent low take-up in the pro-am market sorta put me off.
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12-16-2011, 09:35 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF
Reaper has been around for a decade or so. Why the lack of acknowlegement?? Obviously, competitors won't do so but there are tons of audio recording books out there that never mention Reaper at all (by authors who aren't connected with any corporate system).
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I suppose it's just ignorance. I own x1 pro, studio one v2, and ableton live. I use Reaper almost exclusively because it does what I want and doesn't get in the way.
x1 pro - hated it... I bought it for matrix view hoping to rid myself of ableton dependency. It's a complete hog... bloated, slow and buggy as hell.
studio one v2 - it's ok, but it's not as customizable as I'd wish. I dislike their take system. But their fx channel is a cool feature. I use it only for mastering now.
Ableton - horrible for mixing, but the session view is just so cool. I love it for creating and exploring new ideas.
When all is said and done I spend >90% of my time with Reaper. It just works and is customizable so I can do anything I need to do. It's lightweight, has built in bit-bridge support, auto mute, auto save, rewire (for the few times I use Reason), reroute, skins, and anything can be mapped to a hotkey.
The one thing I wish it had is session/matrix view.
One day... and my life will be complete.
__________________
clickonce tunes
Well, I suppose you could practice it, but I don't. It just developed naturally.. sort of like a rash. -- Nigel Tufnel.
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12-16-2011, 09:56 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Anaconda, Montana
Posts: 364
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Thanks, Clickonce, for the info. You know, this forum is so kind with so many people willing to share their thoughts, advice, etc. I mean it is way more informative than just the user manual. (No offense to Geoffrey Francis, who is great and I use his "Reaper Power! The Comprehensive Guide" all the time).
Yet, it would take a 2,000 page book to include all the great info provided here in this forum. Hey! There's an idea! Maybe someone should produce a multi-volume work just on the thousands of comments on this forum, in various categories, themes, etc. Sure, it's here to see anyway online, but nobody wants to print all this stuff out for a hardcopy, right?? (ha-ha).
Mike
Last edited by MikeF; 12-20-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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12-16-2011, 10:21 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Atlanta, Geirgia
Posts: 245
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If Justin had a huge ego it would be plastered in magazines and websites everywhere about him being the creator of Winamp and how much AOL paid him to acquire the rights to Winamp and blah blah blah.
I still surprises me, the amount of long time musicians that have never heard of REAPER. I turn my friends onto it all the time. They've all been recording with other DAWS and have been on the Internet for years, but they have still never heard of REAPER.
Most of them think it is some kind of experimental piece of software because they haven't seen it listed with Cubase, Sonar, Pro Tools etc., when they go shopping for a DAW.
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12-16-2011, 10:39 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Reaper HAS send control via midi !!!
Posts: 4,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70srocker
Most of them think it is some kind of experimental piece of software because they haven't seen it listed with Cubase, Sonar, Pro Tools etc., when they go shopping for a DAW.
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And why should we care of these people? They will follow in 10 years, also ok. The difference is they learn later. The art is learning quickly and being one of the first in a new, interesting field.
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12-16-2011, 10:11 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New Delhi, India
Posts: 162
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Because...Reaper is speaking for itself. Others need endorsement from..xyz. Paid or else.
And Reaper started in 2006. So far from a decade yet.
Having said that I will also add, you have not done your homework properly before posting. SOS(the only respected magazine in this genre IMHO..) is mentioning Reaper in many accounts (Not Paid ones). The FAMOUS 'Mix Rescue' Articles were written using Reaper and Reaper was at least reviewed twice.
But anyway why we need some so-called professionals to say what is good for me...
In my work scene I need to use Nuendo, Pro-Tools, Logic for different clients time to time. But when I don't have any compulsion, I fire-up Reaper for anything. That's my preference...
And pricing, Reaper has received it's respect and reputation for many reasons. Pricing is one of the major factors. It discourages PIRACY big-time.(can't imagine, some morons wasting time to crack Reaper Licensing which is a unexpiring un-crippled trial version)
And last but not the least..when there is a small team of developers, they can afford to reflect WISDOM in decision making.
...
Last edited by sonicbreeze; 12-16-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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12-16-2011, 10:51 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Reaper HAS send control via midi !!!
Posts: 4,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clickonce
The one thing I wish it had is session/matrix view.
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It has, the item and takes structure: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov1...-tech-1110.htm
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12-17-2011, 12:55 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 302
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The truth is, it is mentioned as a top notch DAW by people in the know. People who make a living with DAW software know all about Reaper, most likely because of how easy it is to route audio and its stability. Unfortunately. most people use PT because most people use PT, just like most people use MS Office because most people use MS Office. It doesn't make PT or MS Office better than all else, it just makes them the standards.
Samplitude is a top notch DAW that never gets any attention. Reaper is probably already better known and used than Samplitude is.
Lastly, I think Reaper is marketed perfectly. Reaper is more better off with a smaller core group of serious DAW users than it is by becoming an industry standard. Being an industry standard means it will have to become bloatware like the others and lose its advantages. ProTools, Cubase and the other big name DAWs were not ruined by the small group of professionals that used them in the studio, but rather by the millions of users who wanted them to have everything imaginable inside. I say Reaper should be the "independent" DAW and stay away from trying to be the "be all, end all" DAW.
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12-20-2011, 12:59 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonE
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Haha, talk about trying to build a house with nothing but duct tape and baling wire.
Can you record new material while the loops are playing? It seems to me it would only work for pre-recorded clips.
Interesting link though. I'm a big fan of Reaper, but I would never use it for this. That workflow is pretty horrendous.
__________________
clickonce tunes
Well, I suppose you could practice it, but I don't. It just developed naturally.. sort of like a rash. -- Nigel Tufnel.
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12-17-2011, 08:06 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF
Is it because they are TOO cheap for the cost of such a great program? All the ones recommended by others are 10 times more expensive!! Sometimes, if you under-price the competition too much, people tend to think you have a basic, entry-level program with very few features. But I know this is not so with Reaper. It has them all beat in my opinion.
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Reaper is affordable but in my opinion the full license pricing is quite well in line with what you get when compared to competition. Discounted license is a real bargain.
599 Pro Tools
500 Cubase
499 Samplitude
495 Digital Performer
399 Studio One Professional
399 Reason
337 Ableton Live
225 Reaper
200 Logic Pro
199 Sonar Studio
199 FL Studio Producer Edition
199 Orion
199 Studio One Producer
60 Reaper Discounted license
50 Zynewave Podium
0 Ardour
jnif
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12-17-2011, 09:03 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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If it's not in a package on the shelf, there's no downline to profit from it, from distributors to retailers to advertisers.
A consumerist society doesn't like stuff like that in such an integrated marketplace. Just look at all the hands that Cubase or ProTools passes through in being made and also in being distributed and sold. Everyone wins.
Reaper formula = download. Record. Pay. Record some more.
The consumer happily wins! Retailers lose in such a transaction - except to supply 3rd party software, also available online.
Just my opinion.
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12-17-2011, 09:16 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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It just takes time, that's all. It's only 6 years old in a market segment that's 30+ years old.
There's no other real reason really. As time passes it will become more and more universally recognized like all of them. It's had reviews in many of the major mags I think, so I doubt anyone subscribing to those mags hasn't heard of it.
Directly asking for Mix to review it - if it hasn't been fully reviewed there already - wouldn't be the worst thing in the world... and (imo) showing up at NAMM with a slick booth and demo schedule wouldn't hurt either... probably would could sell a bunch of licenses right on the floor there.
Last edited by Lawrence; 12-17-2011 at 09:22 AM.
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12-17-2011, 09:21 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
It just takes time, that's all. It's only 6 years old in a market segment that's 30+ years old.
There's no other real reason really. As time passes it will become more and more universally recognized like all of them.
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My point was that, even if given time, it's doubtful that your friendly Sweetwater or other sales rep is going to say anytime soon: "Hey, why don't we forget my commission and I'll just hook you up with Reaper, okay?"
There are many older, established things that don't sell well. Except water of course, cause they figured out how to put it on a shelf.
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12-17-2011, 09:30 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kundalinguist
My point was that, even if given time, it's doubtful that your friendly Sweetwater or other sales rep is going to say anytime soon: "Hey, why don't we forget my commission and I'll just hook you up with Reaper, okay?"
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Well, yeah. That would be like the Benz salesman telling you to drive up the street and have a look at BMW's.
My point was that additional exposure for some of the others is an "intentional investment", and not just with costly magazine ads. Again, go to NAMM, get a booth and a big screen, run some demos, wow some people, more exposure. It might cost a few grand but that's the "investment" part.
You wouldn't expect that you'd get the same levels of exposure without actually paying for it do you? You can make the greatest widget in the world but people that don't know about it don't know about it.
It's not something that has to be passed on to users, the cost. It's an investment in exposure... which should pay off in more sales.
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12-17-2011, 12:58 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF
Everyone in life is out to make a profit. Isn't Reaper? I'm SO GLAD it's this reasonable, but how can they grow and continue to lose millions of dollars by not being in the ballpark with the others? What would they lose if they charged more? Nothing, because other lower-priced DAWs suck and people would know it; therefore, they would get the business anyway.
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Simple answer is no, they're not obsessing about profit.
"Cockos Incorporated was founded in 2004, beginning an effort to build quality software that would benefit people throughout the world.
Our goal is to develop software sustainably while preventing profit rationale from forcing engineering compromises. By doing so, we can keep our product visions intact, giving maximum benefit to our users.
We lovingly craft the software that we would want to use."
http://www.cockos.com/index.php
IMO this is one of the greatest things about Reaper and makes Cockos a benchmark for where businesses should aim to be. Profit should follow from quality. Too often quality is an accidental by-product of profit.
Seems to me that Cakewalk are hemoraging customers at the moment and as I see it it's because they're chasing exactly what you're talking about and in the process they've had to dumb down their software to a point where unless that workflow works for you it's going to be a real pain to use.
The idea that other people's endorsement of something I use is going to make it any better (if it already works for me) just seems a bit weird.
Child
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12-18-2011, 04:31 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: in hope
Posts: 320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF
I love Reaper! I've been with Cubase and Sonar before. But for some strange reason, you never hear Reaper listed as suggested DAWs in other books, websites, etc. You ALWAYS hear about Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Pro Tools, Reason, and so on. Yet never Reaper. Sure, on this forum it is, but did you ever check out other recording forums? Some do, but it's like a minor reference.
Reaper has been around for a decade or so. Why the lack of acknowlegement?? Obviously, competitors won't do so but there are tons of audio recording books out there that never mention Reaper at all (by authors who aren't connected with any corporate system).
Is it because they are TOO cheap for the cost of such a great program? All the ones recommended by others are 10 times more expensive!! Sometimes, if you under-price the competition too much, people tend to think you have a basic, entry-level program with very few features. But I know this is not so with Reaper. It has them all beat in my opinion.
Everyone in life is out to make a profit. Isn't Reaper? I'm SO GLAD it's this reasonable, but how can they grow and continue to lose millions of dollars by not being in the ballpark with the others? What would they lose if they charged more? Nothing, because other lower-priced DAWs suck and people would know it; therefore, they would get the business anyway.
Then again, maybe soon down the road Reaper WILL charge $500 for a fully functional program if they figure this out. I HOPE NOT!! I love Reaper but you do have to wonder why they aren't acknowleged after all these years...
Mike
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Mike, the proper question SHOULD be, why is Reaper treated with such reverence? It's only a few years old as a real app and yet it has a massive following. For example, Sound on Sound magazine has a regular tutorial article and frequent references to it by staff who use Reaper. There are numerous other older DAWs that have bigger backing but never get a look in.
Some of the well known apps you mention were around before PCs! They were MIDI sequencers; audio workstations in THOSE days cost the price of a row of houses! Hard disk drives were the size of washing machines and held less than freebie usb 'drives' do now.
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12-18-2011, 06:41 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optical
... why is Reaper treated with such reverence? It's only a few years old as a real app and yet it has a massive following.
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Reaper is what it is because of Justin, its his baby.
Check this: Justin Frankel.
__________________
Peace...
bluzkat
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