Old 08-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #41
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Howzabout a horribly mixed horrible song?
Radio?
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:12 PM   #42
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good one. smile.
wait, grimace.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:53 AM   #43
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Question about room design as I proceed building up mine.

It seems like a good idea from the point of view of accessability and pragmatics to have my collection of guitars and other stringed instruments out and available (on racks, on the wall, etc.)

But what is the effect going to be when a bunch of SOUND is created by a musician being recorded, and the guitar strings (and bass and banjo strings) all start to resonate?

Should instruments be kept OUT of the performance room?
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:18 PM   #44
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And let us also remember that the room you record in and the room you LISTEN/mix in are subject to different criteria.

I have a tiny room which does for control room and recording all the non-acoustic stuff.

I dont have enough treatment in there yet but I am working on it.
The more I do, the more I hear when mixing.
But for recording vocals and acoustic instruments I go next door to the dining room which has a ten foot tray ceiling and a mix of carpet wood and brick, plus a LOT of large windows.
Not the greatest sounding recording space in the world but it does t least have somel ife to it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:30 AM   #45
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I always enjoy the good song with a bad mix, in a bad room with poor gear will be better than a bad song recorded with great gear in a great space and mixed really well. And Kind of suggests that these are the only two possible production scenarios

While true IMO, it still only tells part of the story.
Because....

A good song recorded with good gear in a good room and mixed really well will sound better than a good song with a bad mix, in a bad room with poor gear

so If you have material that you like, why shouldn't you give it the best treatment possible rather than being all sulky and underground about using sh!tty recording spaces etc

Also most people can get a pretty decent amount of room treatment set up for less than the cost of mid range condenser mic or low end guitar, or a cheap tube tube amp so why not and no one seems to have a problem with people buying cheap amps or cheap guitars or cheap mics
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:06 PM   #46
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In my years of mixing and mastering, a larger live room works best for me. My clients like the results better when I work in this environment.

But the most important thing is to - LEARN HOW MUSIC SHOULD SOUND IN YOUR ROOM! I could master in ANY room, if I had a few days to listen to how radio songs in the same genre sound in that room. Once I lock in in how a song "should" sound, I can replicate it.

Learn what sound you're shooting for!
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:44 PM   #47
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Yeah ...

If you have the time to guess.

Remember, you would have to learn that untreated room for every possible key that a song would be in due to the different fundamentals and each related harmonic that would 'excite' the room.

You would still be making a 'best' guess.

Is that what 'you' want to do for the rest of your life ? Really. Then probably best to keep the day job, because the time invested to accomplish a predictable product, just to get it decent, would exhaust creativity.

Anyone else that was going to try an understand what they were hearing ... how long to they need to figure out the room.

If you can get them to pay by the hour, then you have a 'golden goose'. How fortunate.

For others more serious about their work ... acoustic treatment does NOT have to be un-afordable. With some DIY skills, major improvements can be realized.

I won't even mention how enjoyable it can be to listen in a 'Controlled' room.

Make all the excuses you can ... the Laws of 'Acoustical' Physics apply to all. The counter belief is B.S.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:03 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
... (Yes at home, nobody in the best rooms at Abbey or Nashville are using Reaper hahahaha)
If you only knew

Alright Mr gpunk spouting off about "songs", but how does that relate to voiceover, FX, drum tracks or backing tracks, mixing location events, post production...

And thinking acoustic treatment is expensive is as narrow-minded as thinking recording your own songs is the sum total of all audio engineering. It is one of the cheapest things you can do, in terms of the significance to audio quality, to any recording or mixing space.

You don't have to buy everything ready-made. Admittedly, you might have to roll your sleeves up...


>
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:47 AM   #49
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Homemade bass traps are super easy to make, trip to Ikea to buy a couple cheap as chips shelfs:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/93690707/

Seriously, use these.. you can't even buy the wood alone for the same price for making frame yourself.


Buy a couple packs of Rockwool terrain bats which is the most dense.

A knife (To cut bats to size), a large hole drill (Drill large holes in the back of bookshelfs)

Old bedsheets for front cover.

1 hour later you have yourself some excellent bass traps.

Buy some wheels for your traps, make 3 of above and you can wheel them around and make a vocal booth when needed.

Expensive studio monitors in an untreated room is money down the drain.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:26 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by KenC View Post
Homemade bass traps are super easy to make, trip to Ikea to buy a couple cheap as chips shelfs:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/93690707/

Seriously, use these.. you can't even buy the wood alone for the same price for making frame yourself.


Buy a couple packs of Rockwool terrain bats which is the most dense.

A knife (To cut bats to size), a large hole drill (Drill large holes in the back of bookshelfs)

Old bedsheets for front cover.

1 hour later you have yourself some excellent bass traps.

Buy some wheels for your traps, make 3 of above and you can wheel them around and make a vocal booth when needed.

Expensive studio monitors in an untreated room is money down the drain.
Great Idea!

Someone buy that man a drink!

Meanwhile..my studio is starting to look like one of them Hoarders gafs you see on the tv..I have got A LOT of mass in here..everything..camping gear..busted speakers stuffed full of carpet..armchairs..upturned beds....you name it....floor to ceiling..dosent look too pretty..but it sounds awesome!!!

No chance of a rogue standing wave survivng in here..but not too dead either.

Still not 100% happy about the ceiling situation though

If only I could think of a way to suspend my couch from the ceiling..I'd be on a winner.

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Old 01-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #51
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...I find books really well worth the money. One that really takes a large part talking about listening situation and environment is "Mixing secrets for the small studio" by Mike Senior. Really, really good.
Just ordered this book. Actually, I tweeted that I wanted it and someone actually hooked me up! Can't believe it. I'm sure it'll be helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post
Homemade bass traps are super easy to make, trip to Ikea to buy a couple cheap as chips shelfs:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/93690707/

Seriously, use these.. you can't even buy the wood alone for the same price for making frame yourself.


Buy a couple packs of Rockwool terrain bats which is the most dense.

A knife (To cut bats to size), a large hole drill (Drill large holes in the back of bookshelfs)

Old bedsheets for front cover.

1 hour later you have yourself some excellent bass traps.

Buy some wheels for your traps, make 3 of above and you can wheel them around and make a vocal booth when needed.

Expensive studio monitors in an untreated room is money down the drain.
^^^THIS! I'm ALL about that custom, alternative, cheap functionality. Got any pics? Any other suggestions? Do tell!
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:20 PM   #52
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Meanwhile..my studio is starting to look like one of them Hoarders gafs you see on the tv..I have got A LOT of mass in here..everything..camping gear..busted speakers stuffed full of carpet..armchairs..upturned beds....you name it....floor to ceiling..dosent look too pretty..but it sounds awesome!!!

No chance of a rogue standing wave survivng in here..but not too dead either.
Ha! Sounds exactly like my setup. I ended up taking over a corner of the basement. It's a large room and there's a variety of junk sitting around to reflect and/or absorb sound. The floor is vinyl tile over cement and I have a foam drop ceiling at about seven feet. I know it's not perfect, but good enough for a home hacker.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #53
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Ha! Sounds exactly like my setup. I ended up taking over a corner of the basement. It's a large room and there's a variety of junk sitting around to reflect and/or absorb sound. The floor is vinyl tile over cement and I have a foam drop ceiling at about seven feet. I know it's not perfect, but good enough for a home hacker.
I got the inspiration for it from some picture I saw of Lee Scartch Perry one time..he could barely move for shite everywhere..packed the room was..and his bass mix is pretty snazzy!
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith View Post
Just ordered this book. Actually, I tweeted that I wanted it and someone actually hooked me up! Can't believe it. I'm sure it'll be helpful.



^^^THIS! I'm ALL about that custom, alternative, cheap functionality. Got any pics? Any other suggestions? Do tell!
I did my panels for the cost of glass and burlap, frameless. Works especially well if you have 8 foot ceilings because 2 panels wedge into place without any hardware. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

For my acoustic recordings (and for vocals as well) two of these panels can be used to reduce reflection: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

But these days I'm seeing different recommendations from a number of pro acousticians. I hesitate to send folks to Gearslutz but the acoustics section has a lot of info that seems quite solid: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...ing-acoustics/ These guys are saying that for bass management a greater depth of lower density material gives a better result.

Fran
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
II hesitate to send folks to Gearslutz but the acoustics section has a lot of info that seems quite solid: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studi...ing-acoustics/ These guys are saying that for bass management a greater depth of lower density material gives a better result.
Yep, apparently

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6...page&q&f=false

http://www.stanleyhallstudios.co.uk/...&s22=1&d22=100
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:40 PM   #56
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Gearslutz is highly informative.But also completely fucking useless.

Maybe..if people there had a signature which detailed where they're coming from..it'd be way cool..

For instance..

Class A ..I'm a rich cosmetic surgeon and highly clever with unlimited money and limited real world audio knowledge or talent.

etc..

Anyway Back on topic..COUCHS!Great bass traps and cheap

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:34 PM   #57
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For the corners of the room, look up 'Chunky Corner Bass Traps'.

The same material used for the broadband absorbers are utilized, but with a different technique.

I used KNAUF 2" ECO rigid fiberglass [excellent substitute for Corning 703]. In FACT, it is a lot better ... minimal itch, and no obnoxious smell.

They are 2'x4' x 2" panels that are cut in half [2'x2'], then cut diagonally into 2 triangle shapes.

Basically they are then stacked into the corner, from floor to ceiling. Cover with a fabric frame.

From the REW measurements, these corner traps are great!

Some also recommend that you can flank the corner with a full sheet or rigid [2' wide] ... behind it can be filled with standard fluffy insulation. I've read that this works very well.

Along with other treatment at critical 1st reflection points, front & back walls, and ceiling clouds ... the resulting acoustic can be stunning.

By neutralizing the room and a controlled RT60, you clearly hear what the speakers are delivering, and how things translate to the outside world.

It is truly the single best investment.

To be able to hear a 1/4 or 1/2dB EQ change is just the start.

Communicating with someone else in the room is effortless, because there is no need to guess or adapt.

The ONLY issue I've found is that the room is so quiet that some comment that they are aware of the blood flow in their ears [but they get use to it]

I am loving it ... after 30+ years working in commercial studios, I finally have my own playroom. I've listened to some great work ... and then there are tracks from my youth that I loved, but have been shocked/ disappointed how they really sound :| Oh well ... That's why I had the room professional design & built ... I want to hear it like it is.

Heck, with a top mix it even sounds good on the AURATONES [like it should].
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:23 AM   #58
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Sorry didn't snap any pictures when making my traps, but just picture the Ikea Billy bookshelf with a cotton bedsheet stapled over it and wheels

The billy bookshelfs I used is about 80 cm wide and 2 meter high, something like 40$ a piece. I calculated the price of wood to make the frame from scratch and it was 3 times that.

The rockwool terrain bats (Hmm, this is direct translation from Danish, I think the terrain bats is called something else in English) but the density is 90Kg/m3 which is great for bass traps.
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