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05-14-2013, 05:07 AM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 422
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I just started experimenting with sending MIDI CLOCK to my Yamaha MOX. What a mess. Why is the feature even there if it doesn't work?
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05-20-2014, 10:42 AM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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I've downloaded the demo version of Ableton Live 9: setting sync out on my MIDI interface et voilà, I got everything synced!
Why is this impossible to achieve with Reaper?
Regards,
F.
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05-20-2014, 11:07 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB
I've downloaded the demo version of Ableton Live 9: setting sync out on my MIDI interface et voilà, I got everything synced!
Why is this impossible to achieve with Reaper?
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Please define "everything" (just in the context of your post, not in general).
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05-20-2014, 11:34 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister36
Please define "everything" (just in the context of your post, not in general).
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Yeah, sorry, was somehow in "rant mode"...
OK, basically I can't seem to have Reaper to correctly clock my external hardware. In fact it doesn't satisfy my basic need to have a software sequencer/DAW acting as master clock in my studio.
I first of all want to be able to start/stop my sequences and have my hardware play. My hardware is a TR-606 (with Quicksilver 606 mod, MIDI-enabled), a TB-303 (not yet included in the "sync"), a Juno 106 and a GEM S2 Turbo. The last one has already a song on it (the demo song) and if I set its clock to "external" and "press play" on Reaper (after having enabled the settings for my MIDI interface ports), I can see the clock being almost stable at what I set it to be in Reaper, but the song doesn't start at all!
Cubase and Ableton Live worked without troubles just after telling them to send MIDI sync out and start/stop as well.
Here my initial post, a few days ago (remained unanswered so far):
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1357077
Regards,
F.
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05-20-2014, 11:47 AM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 89
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+1 not everyone loves software and virtual instruments- would love to see Reaper support and function well with external hardware.
C
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05-20-2014, 12:39 PM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Greece
Posts: 98
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Reaper sends clock start/stop etc. to external gear. I've tested it many times with various gear .You should double check midi settings in Reaper such as "enable output" AND "send clock SPP" for your midi device.
__________________
No midi clock sync ? How about Ableton Link?
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05-20-2014, 12:42 PM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korakios
Reaper sends clock start/stop etc. to external gear. I've tested it many times with various gear .You should double check midi settings in Reaper such as "enable output" AND "send clock SPP" for your midi device.
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Hi korakios
I'd love to be as successful as you are with Reaper, but I am not. I already double-checked the settings you're talking about, on both MIDI OUT ports of my 2x2 Midisport...
And still: why does it work "out of the box" with Cubase and Ableton Live, not with Reaper?
F.
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05-20-2014, 12:53 PM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Greece
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB
Hi korakios
I'd love to be as successful as you are with Reaper, but I am not. I already double-checked the settings you're talking about, on both MIDI OUT ports of my 2x2 Midisport...
And still: why does it work "out of the box" with Cubase and Ableton Live, not with Reaper?
F.
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Only way to find out what is going wrong ,is using a midi monitor utility such as MidiOX.
__________________
No midi clock sync ? How about Ableton Link?
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05-20-2014, 01:27 PM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Argentina
Posts: 1,303
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I have synced an old Kurzweil PC 88 with the project´s tempo and it worked nicely tight. I´ll see if I can test it again...
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05-21-2014, 02:40 AM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korakios
Only way to find out what is going wrong ,is using a midi monitor utility such as MidiOX.
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Is there any similar tool for OS X (Mavericks)? I haven't been successful in my quick search...
Thanks,
F.
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05-28-2014, 08:32 AM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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MIDI Monitor for OS X
So here we go again...
I downloaded MIDI Monitor http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/ and set it up to "sniff" all the MIDI traffic going on when I do "start/stop" from the 3 soft-sequencers I am trying out:
Reaper 4.62 (64 bit)
Cubase LE AI Elements 6
Ableton Live 9
Now, the only one failing is, as already stated, Reaper. Please have a look at the attached files, I saved them from MIDI Monitor. I've no clue what is maybe wrong with Reaper, thus I'd be glad for every kind of constructive help.
Thanks in advance,
F.
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05-28-2014, 09:58 AM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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SOLVED!
Hy there. I solved my issue, thanks to Kurt Ravis (developer of MIDI Monitor). He pointed out that Reaper was sending a lot of "all notes off" when doing start/stop, thus I tried deactivating both "all notes off" and "pitch reset" and voilà, it works!!!
See attachment for my preferences.
Thanks and I hope it will help somebody else as well!
F.
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05-28-2014, 10:25 AM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Greece
Posts: 98
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Nice!Meanwhile I gave up hoping for slaving Reaper, check my signature, only 43 people find it useful since 2011. The best DAW I've tried for tracking midi clock was RENOISE but they will never use piano-roll for midi editing.
__________________
No midi clock sync ? How about Ableton Link?
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05-28-2014, 10:26 AM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korakios
Nice!Meanwhile I gave up hoping for slaving Reaper, check my signature, only 43 people find it useful since 2011. The best DAW I've tried for tracking midi clock was RENOISE but they will never use piano-roll for midi editing.
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Well, you want Reaper to be a MIDI slave, I don't need it (yet) to act this way. I primarily will create my sequences on Reaper (I think, gotta yet to start!) and will use that clock as master clock.
Or are there any recommendations NOT to use Reaper as Master MIDI Clock source?
F.
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01-29-2015, 05:29 AM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB
Hy there. I solved my issue, thanks to Kurt Ravis (developer of MIDI Monitor). He pointed out that Reaper was sending a lot of "all notes off" when doing start/stop, thus I tried deactivating both "all notes off" and "pitch reset" and voilà, it works!!!
See attachment for my preferences.
Thanks and I hope it will help somebody else as well!
F.
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After a day of searching for a solution to the same timing issue i have with my beatstep i found this solitary post and it fixed it! Thank you! I wanted you to know it helped someone
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01-29-2015, 01:08 PM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 89
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I have not had any of my MIDI gear up in awhile (Echoplex, RS7000, ES-1, Korg TF, Electrix, etc.) but will be very excited to test your findings!
Thanks,
C
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB
Hy there. I solved my issue, thanks to Kurt Ravis (developer of MIDI Monitor). He pointed out that Reaper was sending a lot of "all notes off" when doing start/stop, thus I tried deactivating both "all notes off" and "pitch reset" and voilà, it works!!!
See attachment for my preferences.
Thanks and I hope it will help somebody else as well!
F.
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02-03-2015, 10:43 AM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xalpheric
After a day of searching for a solution to the same timing issue i have with my beatstep i found this solitary post and it fixed it! Thank you! I wanted you to know it helped someone
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Hi Xalpheric, glad this helped you (and maybe some other guy struggling with the same annoyance) ;-)
Thanks for your feedback!
F.
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05-17-2015, 11:03 AM
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#98
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB
Well, you want Reaper to be a MIDI slave, I don't need it (yet) to act this way.
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OK, I gotta quote myself now...
As I don't really use Reaper as master clock (MIDI), I now changed somehow my workflow: I use hardware sequencers/devices and will use Reaper just to record the audio tracks (in multitrack). Now here I am, again facing a big issue: Reaper 4.78 NOT SYNCING to external MIDI clock. I'm using Roland SBX-80 to sync my whole studio... only Reaper won't!
Any help on this?
Or do I have to abandon Reaper, because it will NEVER sync to external MIDI clock?
Thanks in advance,
Flavio.
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05-17-2015, 11:10 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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There is a thread to collect the "hall of shame" of missing , inadequate or faulty features of reaper regarding midi.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=159635
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05-17-2015, 11:17 AM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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@flavio
You might be able to synchronise reaper if you send not only a midi clock, but also spp to reaper. The sbx80 can deliver that...
Maybe even the sbx80 has the feature that would solve almost anything regarding reaper sync . Sending or receiving mtc ( time code) and delivering midi clock in sync with the mtc.
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05-17-2015, 11:18 AM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
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Hi Mink,
so there's light at the end of the tunnel, or what?! :-)
Am I right understanding now, that it is in fact possible to MIDI sync Reaper to external MIDI gear?
F.
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05-17-2015, 11:20 AM
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#102
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
@flavio
You might be able to synchronise reaper if you send not only a midi clock, but also spp to reaper. The sbx80 can deliver that...
Maybe even the sbx80 has the feature that would solve almost anything regarding reaper sync . Sending or receiving mtc ( time code) and delivering midi clock in sync with the mtc.
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If by "SPP" you mean "Song-Position-Pointer", then I am disappointed that SBX-80 DOES NOT send it out: I just looked at what its spits out with MIDI Monitor :-/ Only MIDI Start/Stop/Continue (and, of course, MIDI Clock).
But I'm willing to dig deeper with this SBX-80 thing, if you have any suggestions or knowledge... or anybody else!
F.
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05-17-2015, 02:21 PM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
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Hi Mink! Indeed, I had a too quick view at the manual...
So, now the question is: how do I "see" with MIDI Monitor (OS X equivalent to MidiOx) if SPP are really being spit out?
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05-17-2015, 02:33 PM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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Btw.
Due to the same reasons, I am also switching to external sequencing, as reaper will not be able to provide correct syncing due to some design flaws that cannot easily be corrected.
But....
Reaper syncs very well to mtc / smpte, both in & outbound. If we can find or build a device, that could derive a reliable midi clock from a mtc source, we could have reaper synced by mtc and the rest by midi clock.
I have already asked one manufacturer to design this, and in case of emergency, if there is an arduino, then there is a shield, and then there is a solution.....
( http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=57636.0)
Last edited by Mink99; 05-17-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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05-17-2015, 02:40 PM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Mink, you seem to be like a guru over here! ;-)
Sadly, I'm thinking really to let Reaper be and switch to some other DAW. I don't want to have any software being clock master for my studio, as I feel it's not tight as (dedicated) hardware can be.
I also own a Midibro (successor of MIDIpal) which many user state that it's perfect tight. Thus, it could be a solution to my hardware master clock as well.
In fact, to be honest, I wanted Reaper simply to be synced because I wanted to record my multitrack audio in sync with what was playing! :-/
Thus, in the end: do you see any light at the end of this tunnel?
Regards,
F.
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05-17-2015, 02:47 PM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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From "hearsay" motu dp seems to have the most reliable midi implementation.
But I am convinced, an approach like you are following with the Roland sync box, or me using a combination of motu and mpc (or midipal or msq100) for clocking and some daw only as a tape machine should be the most cost effective way.
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05-17-2015, 02:50 PM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
From "hearsay" motu dp seems to have the most reliable midi implementation.
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Well, I'm no fan of investing more money in software...
Quote:
But I am convinced, an approach like you are following with the Roland sync box, or me using a combination of motu and mpc (or midipal or msq100) for clocking and some daw only as a tape machine should be the most cost effective way.
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Indeed, I agree. But still: I got no DAW doing what I want right now. Reaper isn't good at this... and it somehow pisses me off, that there's no "demo" license for Logic Pro X (which would be my next choice)...
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05-18-2015, 05:20 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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@flavio
Ok, you made me act.....
I went to the electronics store and bought some parts....
The plan is :
... to create a box that delivers a synchronised mtc and midi clock with selectable bpm and no spp.
... Not as accurate as an atomium clock, but ....
Two midi outs, one will go into reaper (mtc) one will go into the midi patchbay or through box for clock.
A button will provide a start / stop.
As I will use only hard coded bpm, would a range of 60-200 without fractions or tempo changes be sufficient ?
Also mtc hardcoded on 30 fps ?
I plan to have it finished ASAP , maybe two weeks or so...
I bought parts for two , so if you like, you could get one for testing (if i can get it running)
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05-19-2015, 12:07 AM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
@flavio
Ok, you made me act.....
I went to the electronics store and bought some parts....
The plan is :
... to create a box that delivers a synchronised mtc and midi clock with selectable bpm and no spp.
... Not as accurate as an atomium clock, but ....
Two midi outs, one will go into reaper (mtc) one will go into the midi patchbay or through box for clock.
A button will provide a start / stop.
As I will use only hard coded bpm, would a range of 60-200 without fractions or tempo changes be sufficient ?
Also mtc hardcoded on 30 fps ?
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Ah... ok, great that I made you "act" :-)
I'm no expert at all with regards to MTC, MIDI clock, SPP - thus you're the boss here :-)
I can only state that someone might use as well 240 bpm or less than 60, but that is not my case anyway ;-)
Quote:
I plan to have it finished ASAP , maybe two weeks or so...
I bought parts for two , so if you like, you could get one for testing (if i can get it running)
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Oh, that's nice, thanks Mink! I'm interested and I want to see/hear from you what you will achieve, first of all!
In the meantime, I'm still looking towards any way to have my DAW synced to external clock.
I mean: Ableton Live just is "plug'n'play" when it comes to sync to external clock! It syncs without any fuss to SBX-80 and Midibro (Midipal).
Why is this not working with either Reaper or Logic Pro X?
F.
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05-19-2015, 12:14 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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Ableton had to invest a lot of effort to run "jitter-free" when chasing an external clock.
Additionally pdc will not work as expected under those conditions . So , to have a daw running as slave, you will need a really fast machine (no asio4all environment :-) )
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05-21-2015, 05:45 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
Ableton had to invest a lot of effort to run "jitter-free" when chasing an external clock.
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That's nonsense - Live's synchronization to external MIDI Beat Clock doesn't run 'jitter-free', it simply fails entirely to distinguish between 'jitter' and actual tempo changes, as it averages out all clock pulses for the previous measure. I spent many hours trying to explain to them why it does a very poor job (I could probably dig up some reports documenting the many issues), but they didn't seem to care about fixing any of it at all.
Btw, do realize that REAPER will never be able to slave to MIDI Beat Clock without issues until this more fundamental issue is resolved, which doesn't seem likely to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink99
So , to have a daw running as slave, you will need a really fast machine (no asio4all environment :-) )
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REAPER should arguably enable us to disable all audio file playback features, because it seems to be the fundamental design flaw getting in the way of reliable MIDI sequencing. A MIDI sequencer can run perfectly well on a really, really slow machine - Amigas and Ataris did just fine, remember?
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Last edited by Banned; 05-21-2015 at 05:52 AM.
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05-21-2015, 05:52 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Greece
Posts: 98
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I've mentioned it before ,but the best DAW I've tried for syncing was Renoise. (but no piano roll,never used trackers before)
__________________
No midi clock sync ? How about Ableton Link?
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05-21-2015, 11:02 AM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 943
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Fact is:
Otherwise than with REAPER, with Ableton it is possible.
(with Ablelton it´s only important that the warp markers for the Audio Events are really all accurat)
REAPER toootaaaallyyyy fail for live use + tempo changes.
No matter which way.. Over MIDI Clock or simply inc/dec the tempo per #CC - REAPER unfortunately fail.
And it is also no matter, if there are only MIDI Events inside or not.
For now, and I suspect even for a long time ... maybe forever, - Devs ?
REAPER and tempo changes during playback is not possible!
Abelton is really the only DAW on the market,
(and I mean DAW and not one real MIDI SEQ, a spez. Live Host, an spez. instrument app that can perfect work with tempo vari like Reason or any DJ soft. with possible musical timebase variation things during live play)
that can handle with Audio events and tempo changes during playback....
Today´s fact is:
if you need a host for your software instruments to play live and need tempo changes you have to/ can use Live professor in Slave mode.
If you also need a DAW that can handle tempo vari live,
you have to use Abelton Live....
or like me use simply both on stage.
Its really a shame, pc machines with tons of mhz under the hood,
but that is the today's fact.
And live playing without tempo vari loooooool;
That would be for me an absurdity!
Because if i self on stage the pc is an instrument.
Anybody knows one static instrument?
__________________
I hope you can understand me? Without german beer my written english is always very bad, with beer it becomes unbearable!.
Less is more! To much limited the own creativity.
Last edited by ELP; 05-21-2015 at 11:09 AM.
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05-22-2015, 04:43 AM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
Fact is:
Otherwise than with REAPER, with Ableton it is possible.
(with Ablelton it´s only important that the warp markers for the Audio Events are really all accurat)
REAPER toootaaaallyyyy fail for live use + tempo changes.
No matter which way.. Over MIDI Clock or simply inc/dec the tempo per #CC - REAPER unfortunately fail.
And it is also no matter, if there are only MIDI Events inside or not.
For now, and I suspect even for a long time ... maybe forever, - Devs ?
REAPER and tempo changes during playback is not possible!
Abelton is really the only DAW on the market,
(and I mean DAW and not one real MIDI SEQ, a spez. Live Host, an spez. instrument app that can perfect work with tempo vari like Reason or any DJ soft. with possible musical timebase variation things during live play)
that can handle with Audio events and tempo changes during playback....
Today´s fact is:
if you need a host for your software instruments to play live and need tempo changes you have to/ can use Live professor in Slave mode.
If you also need a DAW that can handle tempo vari live,
you have to use Abelton Live....
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"Live professor"?
I strongly disagree - Ableton Live *also* fails miserably as soon as you're using tempo changes. It only works sufficiently well when using a *fixed* tempo - which completely negates the benefit of using MIDI Beat Clock instead of MTC. This is especially unfortunate, because it's easy to demonstrate that Ableton Live *can* handle such tempo changes with playback of audio files as well (just send arbitrary tempo changes to test this) - the problem is simply that the MIDI Beat Clock slaving feature in Ableton Live has been coded in an extremely retarded manner, apparently using some deeply flawed assumptions. (I had an extensive discussion with Ableton staff about this, unfortunately they have removed the entire beta testing forum at GetSatisfaction.)
Moreover, "if you need a host for your software instruments to play live and need tempo changes" you don't need a "DAW", you simply need a reliable sequencer / host. Fortunately, those still exist - so I say: screw all "DAWs" that can't even play MIDI while following tempo changes.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
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05-22-2015, 10:42 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 31
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So... FWIW - finally there's no way to have a DAW synced to an external clock.
My (simple?!) goal was to record my audio tracks "in sync" with my MIDI environment. This is not possible, unless I place the MIDI master clock on the DAW itself (DAW = master clock), which I'm not sure is the best solution because I believe it not being stable and tight as some hardware clock.
F.
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05-23-2015, 04:48 AM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 943
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Yes, Banned, LiveProfessor.
Beside the sync to musical timebase, it´s also can work with/to
MIDI Show Control commands. Like MSC cue lists etc.
I use that- for example to automate/control some lights and other effects at my own side.
Its a little peace of great software, if you understand how it work...
And there is also a free Version avaible, but without MSC.
LiveProfessor:
http://audiostrom.com/
For me LiveProfessor is the only Instrument/Effect host that you can really use on stage- programmed for musicans.
It is also absolute no problem to integrade Ableton or Reason over an pugin called
ReWire VST if the 32Bit Version of the Rewire plug is ok for you.
But I run the stuff mostly independent and really never had any problems live.
If i use Able., i use Able. also only at/for the Session View on Stage and Tempo changes normally at a range of +-10 to absolute
max +-20 BPM at real integer steps.
Of course, like you said before, there can be/are some problems with tempo varis and Ableton but unlike any other DAWS on the market,
Able. can work with live tempo changes and
I find- live there is no need to vari tempos at one extrem range .. like +-240
As i said for me Ableton is the only DAW today, that you can use live the same way as you use a Hardw.-Instrument...
Thats really a shame for all other DAWs....
__________________
I hope you can understand me? Without german beer my written english is always very bad, with beer it becomes unbearable!.
Less is more! To much limited the own creativity.
Last edited by ELP; 05-23-2015 at 05:05 AM.
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05-24-2015, 07:54 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
Yes, Banned, LiveProfessor.
Beside the sync to musical timebase, it´s also can work with/to
MIDI Show Control commands. Like MSC cue lists etc.
I use that- for example to automate/control some lights and other effects at my own side.
Its a little peace of great software, if you understand how it work...
And there is also a free Version avaible, but without MSC.
LiveProfessor:
http://audiostrom.com/
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Ah, I see. Didn't know that one - I can't try it, as I'm on OS X and it's Windows-only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
For me LiveProfessor is the only Instrument/Effect host that you can really use on stage- programmed for musicans.
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Well, if you just need a reliable host, there are many other tools that I wouldn't discount. But I typically need much more, such as powerful automation / modulation / remote control features and MIDI sequencing features. It all depends on the context, I guess - I would agree that it may be hard to work around various issues, but so far, I have always found something that works well enough.
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Originally Posted by ELP
It is also absolute no problem to integrade Ableton or Reason over an pugin called ReWire VST if the 32Bit Version of the Rewire plug is ok for you.
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ReWire typically gives me too much latency for live use, and often doesn't work well with tempo changes either, but sometimes I find it somewhat useful for recording the output of one app in another.
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Originally Posted by ELP
But I run the stuff mostly independent and really never had any problems live.
If i use Able., i use Able. also only at/for the Session View on Stage and Tempo changes normally at a range of +-10 to absolute
max +-20 BPM at real integer steps.
Of course, like you said before, there can be/are some problems with tempo varis and Ableton but unlike any other DAWS on the market,
Able. can work with live tempo changes and
I find- live there is no need to vari tempos at one extrem range .. like +-240
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Besides some special effects perhaps, +240 not so much, but speeding up from / slowing down to a full stop is something I like to do quite a lot. (But Ableton just gives up attempting to sync when the tempo is below 20 BPM, it just goes on playing at the wrong tempo. Yet another major fail...)
I also like to create system-wide grooves by swinging the clock, e.g. alternate between between 100 and 150BPM every 16th note for a 16th shuffle:
As a slave to MIDI Beat Clock, Ableton Live can not handle such tempo changes at all, while it can easily be demonstrated that (unlike REAPER!) its audio and MIDI engine *can* handle such 'live' tempo changes perfectly well - e.g. by sending it CCs to change its tempo. Many other sequencer / host applications (and most if not all MIDI hardware) can handle such rapidly alternating tempi perfectly well when slaved to a MIDI Beat Clock (e.g. Numerology, Bidule, Max/MSP). Ableton Live is simply messing up the timing completely in its overzealous approach to keep a steady tempo and prevent 'jitter'; it's the very worst implementation of MIDI Beat Clock sync that I have ever seen, by far. I have discussed this at length with Ableton staff, who only came up with some very deeply flawed arguments (unfortunately, Ableton has removed the entire GetSatisfaction forum formerly used for beta-testing Live 9.x - they're probably too ashamed to show the world how much unresolved bugs it still has).
The irony here is of course that the only "DAW" (or one of the very few, at least) that even still has a MIDI Beat Clock slaving feature *and* an audio / MIDI engine that can handle 'live' tempo changes apparently doesn't have a clue how to properly implement such a feature, and messes it up completely. So, exit Ableton Live, as far as I'm concerned.
Btw, Ableton Live also has some ancient yet unresolved issues with pre-programmed tempo changes and automation; see here what may happen when changing tempo from 20 to 960 BPM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
As i said for me Ableton is the only DAW today, that you can use live the same way as you use a Hardw.-Instrument...
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Again, I strongly disagree. To me, Ableton Live is no more than a very poorly programmed (and overpriced) toy, which has a number of severe issues that disqualify it as a tool for live usage - it's only interesting for its integration with Max/MSP. Or perhaps for quickly and easily setting up remote controls with feedback for 'learned' bindings for 14-bit CCs - which REAPER still can't do...
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Originally Posted by ELP
Thats really a shame for all other DAWs....
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Indeed, it's a shame, and tough luck for us. But tough luck for the "DAWs" too, as there are plenty of great apps and tools for live use that aren't necessarily "DAWs" (but are much more reliable and powerful as a MIDI sequencer than any "DAW" I have ever used), and I am not much interested in playing back any audio files during a (semi-)live performance anyway - I'll leave that job to DJs.
Bottom line: for MIDI sequencing, ALL "DAWs" SUCK.
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˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
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05-24-2015, 08:48 AM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 943
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Yes of course..
and many outside there are great "only" MIDI SEQ and editing tools that are at the top real freeware like... Sekaiju, SEQ24, mtrix
and so on and so on and so on.
Many (if not all ) of these free tools do a better job exp. for MIDI to Extern
than all todays modern big DAWS do.
I can only repeat -and that´s a shame for the "TOP 5" DAWS^^
SRY german i dont know the right engl. words for:
"Wir beide wandeln bezüglich MIDI eh auf dem selben Nenner "
BTW:
"Ah, I see. Didn't know that one - I can't try it, as I'm on OS X and it's Windows-only. "
Yes for now... the next step 2.xx would be cross-platform Windows/OSX
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I hope you can understand me? Without german beer my written english is always very bad, with beer it becomes unbearable!.
Less is more! To much limited the own creativity.
Last edited by ELP; 05-24-2015 at 09:15 AM.
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04-19-2016, 09:13 AM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1
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Reaper as master clock....huge latency issues
I've been pulling my hair out over syncing my hardware to reaper purely for recording purposes. I wanted to record each seperate track from my Octatrack, Electribe and Blofeld, to allow me more flexibility when it comes to mix down. as has been previously stated, Reaper WILL NOT be slave device...just does not want to recognize MTC from any device, so i eventually got Reaper working as the master device, but the independent tracks i was recording seemed to be slipping in and out of time and made the recording absolutely useless. Its not only Reaper that this is an issue with, quite an extraordinary amount of other DAW seem to suffer from the same issue, with somewhat weak and wishy washy master clocking.
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