How Reaper wasted 4 hours of my life - Page 4

ivansc · 11-13-2012, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShikiGami

I tried not to, but everyone is answering with a gigantic ego.
I've read like 4 times now "People who have used a computer for a long time", or variants like "You must just started to use a computer".
Those are words only meant to piss off people, if you are not aware.

Now that is just plain dumb. Do you HONESTLY not see how obnoxious you came over as being in your first post?

Also, as far as I recall I have never ever turned on the auto backup option in Reaper, so once you do an initial save (as I recommended earlier) you should never even have to look at backing up.

Just a thought: you DID go check your project files to make sure you didnt already have automatic backups of your file in there? It'll be something like (filename).bak.
It is a while since I DIDNT automatcially name and save a project before dstarting work on the content, but I am pretty sure that once a project is saved it WILL be backed up every five minutes as a backgound task without you doing anything.

Now how about instead of whining about how mean and nasty we all are and minimising the potential impact of your initial post, you 'fess up to having jumped in with all guns blazing rather than asking if there is anything you can do to "find" your data and to make sure it never happens again?

One of the biggest problems with computer "experts/developers" in my experience is that they always think they know everything and that they know best how things should be done.

Sometimes when you need help it is better not to preface the requst for help with a rant.

But otherwise, welcome to the Reaper forum.
We are generally pleasant helpful bunch as you will see if you read more of the forum.
Maybe we all need to take a step back and let you make a fresh start.

P.S. Don't assume that just because YOU want something done a particular way, everyone will and the devs MUST change it asap. There are people on here with huge amounts of experience

Katsu · 11-13-2012, 02:36 AM

Don't assume anything.
User error.
Take responsibility.
Move on.

EvilDragon · 11-13-2012, 02:53 AM

Massive amount of trollage from the OP detected.

gavriloP · 11-13-2012, 03:26 AM

To the OP: wouldn't it be time to let it go? Surely you've wasted more than four hours of your life to this pointless thread?

And if you want take something positive out of this, remember the CTRL+S, always, everywhere, with any program, it just might save your ass one day

J Reverb · 11-13-2012, 03:41 AM

Jesus saves and so must you

somebodyelseuk · 11-13-2012, 03:52 AM

'Ctrl+S'

It's easy to do, can't believe how lazy some people are.

After every positive change, after every recorded take, at the end of every session.

If you're that busy you can't spare the half second it takes, then I'd be more concerned with why it crashed.
Anyhoo, how much time did you waste registering to the forum just to whine about YOU not sorting your settings out before you started - most people at least tweek their autosave frequency before getting started?

planetnine · 11-13-2012, 03:56 AM

I'm actually in sympathy with the OP on the point of an intelligent backup.

I don't use auto-backup, I sometimes go off at tangents that I don't want saving on top of the original, and I don't want dozens of incremental project files. I (usually)just manually save as I go along, but I have been caught out -and it does hurt.

Not using it, I have to honestly say that I didn't realise it didn't hold back saving until activity was over. This should be a feature request in itself.

Current thread sillyness aside (it is starting to sound like the Cakewalk forums

) I do think what the chap is asking (?) for is the feature expected in a mature application -something that saves to a recovery file at unobtrusive times. Can we put our differences aside a minute and acknowledge that the guy's expectations are a valid idea?

If it's not an FR, then do we think it should be? I do.

This is envisaged as a complement to Ctrl-S, not an alternative, BTW.

I'm not interested in the emotive argument currently petering out...

>

Stargard · 11-13-2012, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShikiGami

If those kind of things happen with the auto-backup, then the function itself is broken.
A proper auto-backup should just backup data, not destroy it.

I assume the following:

- there is a default setup project in Reaper
- when I start to work on a project, I give it a name and save it into a sub-folder
- when I continue to work on a project, changes will be made which will make me want to compare former/later versions of the project
- because I want to go back and be able to keep the nicer drum mix in version 07, but keep the guitar arrangement from version 13 and drop it into the almost-finished version 16, I have to save in steps

Reaper should give me all of these options.
It does.
I have to find out how to do that.
I did.
That's how it should be handled and that's how it is handled in Reaper.
There's the problem with space for such a workflow, but I stopped using the C64 when I switched to Reaper 4 and I have stopped saving my projects to floppies and my HD has enough place for all these "fancy options".

(When I open version 07 and I change the drum mix a bit, I save it as version 07A, 07B, 07C and so on)

The best way to find your way into the Reaper world is to ask questions and not to declare New World of Reaper Order dogmas.

Edit: logic aside and using fact-based rationale, yes, the last version of the project before a crash should be recovered when reopening Reaper. But I bet that's what really, really hard to do with plug ins (which often cause the crash) compared to a "freaking word processor", which doesn't handle dozens of different eras and versions of plug ins - some solid, some really unreliable and crashing other hosts constantly, while Reaper has no problem dealing with them). I would even go one step further and implement "always remember last take" - no matter if audio or MIDI, without recording it.
How many times have I messed around with some progressions for five minutes, because I was "in the zone" and once I wanted to record it, it just didn't feel special anymore, because I forgot the exact phrasing of all the chords and transitions I played? Almost always. lol

karbomusic · 11-13-2012, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetnine

I'm actually in sympathy with the OP on the point of an intelligent backup.

>

intelligent backup is already in reaper, the argument was if it was enabled by default just as an FYI.

Viente · 11-13-2012, 04:28 AM

Working for 4 hours in new software without saving your project and hope there is autosave is complete dumb! No exuses here.

guitarans · 11-13-2012, 04:35 AM

My reaper crashed, becouse of a bad vis plugin, so i "press safe" before add one off the free one.

Amazed · 11-13-2012, 04:45 AM

Again I'll make the point for the OP. Autosave should be on by default. The pros can turn it off. It'll save the newbies. Easy. For goodness sake it's just an opinion. This forum is becoming a not very nice place to be these days.

j79 · 11-13-2012, 04:49 AM

Well...discissions about what Reaper should do by default are good, but this one seems to go nowhere.

I kinda lost track of this thread and whats been said already, but just to be on the safe side:

The way Reaper works right now is that you have to save the project when you start it up. Then you can set autosave up to save every 5 minutes or so.

You can work the way you describe, you just have to save the project at the beginning, and set the time between autosaves in preferences.

I have it setup to autosave every 10 minutes...it has saved me a few times when i had a crash, but i usually save quite often so it has never been more than half an hours work.

It seems the good points in this discussion is drowning in childish bickering, and my first response was in retrospect perhaps not quite as helpful as it could have been, sorry about that. You are not exactly helping out when it comes to keeping things nice, though...and thats a shame.

We should probably all have listened to Mr White Tie who saw this coming 10 posts in..

MichaJo · 11-13-2012, 04:55 AM

I think there are two different issues:
1) Autosave
2) Crash Recovery

1)
The creation of RPP-bak files has often been a great help for me.
And one of the first things i do when i start using a new software is to set the preferences of an autosave option because of badly experience in the past (when i've started using computers some decades ago)

2)
Crash recovery should work unattended and unitialized by the user. I think that's how it works in e.g. Microsoft Word, OpenOffice or as a DAW Cubase.
I'd like to have a crash recovery in Reaper too (for unsaved projects)

Michael

White Tie · 11-13-2012, 05:01 AM

OK, so OP came from Reason. Must of us will know that nothing knackers the stability of a DAW like a bad plugin, be he wouldn't have learnt that harsh lesson yet. So I think that's fair enough, can we consider that dealt with?

It has been pointed out that REAPER does have auto-backup, and it has been pointed out why it is not enabled by default. Can we consider that dealt with?

OPs posting style probably wasn't the best way to invite help, invite instruction or be persuasive to the Devs. Sure. Can we consider that dealt with?

OK

The mob mentality "Look! He's down on the ground and everyone's kicking him! I'm going to kick him too!" is Not A Good Thing. It doesn't help anyone, and it doesn't help this be a happy, constructive place. Please restrain any urge to do that, gents, it reflects poorly on you and, indeed, all of us. Aaaanyway... lounge?

EvilDragon · 11-13-2012, 05:03 AM

Lounge.

KevinW · 11-13-2012, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaJo

I think there are two different issues:
1) Autosave
2) Crash Recovery

Crash recovery FR's:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=363
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2957

Voting may or may not help, but it would at least seem like a good idea to take constructive comments to those threads rather than starting another one.

MichaJo · 11-13-2012, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

OK, so OP came from Reason...

Does Reason have crash recovery? As far as i know it hasn't.

Amazed · 11-13-2012, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Lounge.

Take it downstairs LOL

winbe · 11-13-2012, 05:17 AM

Hello there,

I have been using Reaper since v1.0, and computers for a long time as well.
So ok, I am used to Ctrl+S.

But I don't agree when I read that "pros will disable the autobackup feature".
Why? Because I simply looove this feature!! It gives me the ability to go back to the version I created two days ago, and that somehow sounded a bit better than my latest version. I am a developper, and I am used to "version control", so I am used to being able to retrieve an old version.

And please, people saying that "just do Ctrl+S", you say this because you might have a limited experience with Reaper crashes, but more than once, Reaper crashed when I pressed Ctrl+S. The save operation made it crash, so I was happy to have an automatic backup just before I did some strange operation that could not be saved.

Also, I am so used to this feature that, like the OP, I was raging behind my screen when, after having installed Reaper on a new computer, it crashed... and I said to myself: "no problem, I have the autobackup feature"... only to discover that: oh no, it is not enabled by default!!

I did not know it, as I have upgraded and upgraded for soooo long, that I had not done a fresh install for years!

Ok, now for the crashes, I was used to Reaper being stable, but it crashes very often now (each time I open an existing project, it crashes, then I reopen it and it is ok). I guess it is since I installed Sampletank... I need a solution for that...

EvilDragon · 11-13-2012, 05:24 AM

Solution is uninstalling Sampletank and using something else.

lowellben · 11-13-2012, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Solution is uninstalling Sampletank and using something else.

lol

bradleyfilms · 11-13-2012, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winbe

Ok, now for the crashes, I was used to Reaper being stable, but it crashes very often now (each time I open an existing project, it crashes, then I reopen it and it is ok). I guess it is since I installed Sampletank... I need a solution for that...

I think sampletank has a problem somewhere with the User Account Control and loading its graphics.
My solution was moving (or did I install it this way?) its dll out of the Programs folder.
I have 2 folders on my C drive, C:\VST32 and C:\VST64, Sampletank is in the VST32 folder and no longer crashes Reaper. Also I don't have to run Reaper as Administrator, which is the recommended solution.
Oh and I think I changed the privileges on the IK Multimedia folder so it could make changes.
Hope this works for you.
Steve

planetnine · 11-13-2012, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

intelligent backup is already in reaper, the argument was if it was enabled by default just as an FYI.

As in:

1) it doesn't try writing to file at an inopportune moment.

and...

2) It doesn't overwrite the original file after you've made a big change, but before you save it to a different filename because you're going of on an unplanned exploratory tangent?

As I said before, I don't use it because I thought it did the things above, but I made that decision some years ago; I don't know the present state of play and REAPER and the instruction manual don't work on my BB.

>

Argle · 11-13-2012, 08:09 AM

The bright side of this thread is, I doubt the OP will ever make the mistake of not saving again.

karbomusic · 11-13-2012, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetnine

As in:

>

The checkbox to do any of that isn't checked by default, that was the complaint. It was just an FYI

fixerdave · 11-13-2012, 08:28 AM

ATTENTION... why don't you PM the developers with your point of view...sorry if I was in a sarcastic mood before.. dave

The Telenator · 11-13-2012, 08:59 AM

Haven't read the entire thread yet, but I surely will -- many cool responses.

Don't blame the OP so much, this user has been shackled in Cubase for who knows how long, where you can't hardly adjust or set anything the way you want or need it. Once anyone new really gets a grasp of the incredible settings and choices of the Preferences many pages, new users usually quiet down and get to business with their new DAW.

winbe · 11-13-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradleyfilms

I have 2 folders on my C drive, C:\VST32 and C:\VST64, Sampletank is in the VST32 folder and no longer crashes Reaper. Also I don't have to run Reaper as Administrator, which is the recommended solution.
Oh and I think I changed the privileges on the IK Multimedia folder so it could make changes.
Hope this works for you.
Steve

Thanks, but I already install things this way (d:\vstplugins and d:\vstplugins64)... but I'll try to run Reaper with Admin rights, to see...

@evildragon: yes, I know

but I was running low on cash, so I decided to buy the full "Total Workstation 2" for 166 euros, an honest deal. (instead of pirating Kontakt 4). But there are parts of the thing I hate (many lame sounds, interface is horrible to use, small, and no mouse wheel in standard....)

CarlCraig · 11-13-2012, 12:18 PM

I'm new to the forums and reaper for that matter.

I totally feel for the original poster of this thread. My first bad experience with loosing a song was back when I did all my sequencing with an eps ensoniq. Basically the same thing, working for hours without saving a thing and DOH! 20 years later and I still remember that lesson.

save right off the bat and keep saving.

PS, this has probably been mentioned here already but I find auto save can cause glitches in your audio if your recording a track at the time so my preference is to manually save...a lot.

Carl

clickonce · 11-13-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Ruined perfect takes in front of a now pissed off professionally paying band who is now not paying you for the magic they just created that you just screwed up and didn't record properly? AKA losing someone else's work.

Are you concerned with auto-save kicking off when a record is in progress?

Seems like a simple option to just suspend auto-save when the transport is running.

With that sort of option, I really can't see any reason (other than storage) why auto-save would not enabled by default. And I'm not sure storage is an issue as it's just the rpp file that is getting saved right?

timlloyd · 11-13-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazed

Again I'll make the point for the OP. Autosave should be on by default. The pros can turn it off. It'll save the newbies. Easy. For goodness sake it's just an opinion. This forum is becoming a not very nice place to be these days.

mmhmmm!! :-/ This is the second thread I've seen in the past few days where many of the responding posters have ungracefully earned one of these ...

Code:

0.1mTW                  1MTW  
|----------^---------------|
       TWAT-O-METER

We're all better than this ppl!

--------------------------------------------------

How about this - when reaper is run for the first time on a given system, just as it already pops up a request to choose an audio device, why not pop up a question:

"Auto-save is enabled by default. Do you want to leave it on?"

Yes: ...
No: either just turn it off or auto-open up the relevant prefs page ...

And yes - also a good idea to ask for auto-save to be suspended temporarily when a user is doing something that may be negatively affected by a save action ...

karbomusic · 11-13-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clickonce

Are you concerned with auto-save kicking off when a record is in progress?

Seems like a simple option to just suspend auto-save when the transport is running.

With that sort of option, I really can't see any reason (other than storage) why auto-save would not enabled by default. And I'm not sure storage is an issue as it's just the rpp file that is getting saved right?

RPPs can get some size to them and take several seconds to write to disk. But yes your basic logic is correct, also see the thread search link I posted earlier. Part of the debate was that enabling it by default was a 100% no-brainer but there is a more to it than just saving blindly, such as montioring all the conditions of when a save can take place and so on. In those threads I posted, you'll see that at one time it was actually auto-saving during record (whether its good to do that or not).

I have no qualm with whether or not that would be useful, the point was that its been discussed and wasn't enabled by default for an actual reason before this thread existed. Additionally, anyone who feels its merit should post a proper feature request and present their argument for it. Maybe they can get it changed.

Rusty Falcon · 11-13-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic

I hit ctl+s every 3 mins while I sleep.

Sometimes I get pissed becuase I hit CTRL-S and saved something I really didn't want to save. But that's my own fault, not Reaper or any other program.

Thinking about it a minute... it's probably Bill Gates' fault since his Windows and Office software teaches us to 'save frequently'.

Coachz · 11-13-2012, 01:54 PM

Woo Hoo! 155 messages on how to save in Reaper. I can't wait for VCA discussions !

mrmclean · 11-14-2012, 07:01 AM

hey you guys (planetnine and hophi) er ..um..yeah....I am reading this! LOL

planetnine · 11-14-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmclean

hey you guys (planetnine and hophi) er ..um..yeah....I am reading this! LOL

>

matey · 11-14-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Reverb

Jesus saves and so must you

word

btw, about 78,5% of my saved project in my HD are plain empty because my attitude to "save as" my stuff even before I actually have a clue about what to play in...

Lawrence · 11-14-2012, 08:59 AM

I think the OP tapped out already...

ShikiGami · 11-14-2012, 07:10 PM

Friendly forum, my ass.
I'm not answering to idiots anymore because I went to contact the developers directly.