From The Beating Of The Heart

[OpIvy]

After struggling with vocals for the past 18 months, I really tried to nail this one..... https://soundcloud.com/opivy/from-th...g-of-the-heart

I think it's a fair effort but after trying so long to get it right, I got ear poo. Would appreciate some honest feedback..

Mix as well. Damn that took some hours!

[Sambo Rouge]

Nice one Op

Oasis(ish) --- lots of good work in there and I like the gritty mix.

Really enjoyed it.

(How's your throat? )

[Scir]

I like the vocals. The different parts blend together nicely. Reminds me a bit of The Killers, in a good way.

Are you comparing your mix against any reference songs (after careful level matching)? My first reaction to the mix is that it is thin at the bottom. Is your playback system bass-heavy, or are you mixing in an untreated room that might have low-frequency resonances?

Also, maybe less emphasis in the 2KHz to 3KHz range. Personal preference, not a criticism (maybe this is the tone you are seeking).

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by Scir

Are you comparing your mix against any reference songs (after careful level matching)? My first reaction to the mix is that it is thin at the bottom. Is your playback system bass-heavy, or are you mixing in an untreated room that might have low-frequency resonances?

Well I'm mixing through headphones due to circumstances... always have. I haven't used a reference track for this but I do check on other systems. I can usually get to close to where I want. But I really should check for this song. I did have a plan on how I wanted it to sound, but did it translate...?

I did try to tighten the bottom end more than I usually do and separate it from the mid/ highs a little. It was a bit too thick and boomy at first and I wanted it tighter to push the vocals... if you know what I mean.

There could be too much in the mids. That's always hard for me to detect given the monitoring. What are you listening on?

Also, I record the vox in a pretty average environment but have no other option. I rely on a bit of turd polishing so I'm interested in hearing whether it's acceptable.
I don't think I could've done this any better, but for me it's still so hard to listen to my voice. Before 18 months ago, I would've become a stripper before even thinking about recording myself singing. But here I am...... stripping has become my next challenge!
Thanks for listening

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by Sambo Rouge

Oasis(ish)

Ouch. Hope not very 'ish' lol.....glad you enjoyed. I think I busted a tonsil on the 15th take in that screamy bit.

[Scir]

Originally Posted by OpIvy

I haven't used a reference track for this but I do check on other systems. I can usually get to close to where I want. But I really should check for this song.

I took the liberty of level matching your song against two other songs. All clips are at +13 on the EBU+27 scale. The result is posted here:
https://soundcloud.com/kidbcote/songcompare

I'll take this track down in a day or two, or immediately if I've overstepped any boundaries (and my apologies in advance if so).

I'm listening on Tannoy 601P monitors in a treated room, and on Sennheiser HD600 headphones. After closer listening, I still stand by my opinion that your mix is thinner, with more upper mids than I would have expected. But my opinion doesn't matter! :-) If you listen to the comparison file and it sounds the way you intended, then your mix is correct. What do you hear?

[OpIvy]

No overstepping. Thanks for helping.
I can hear what you're saying. Seems the bottom end is a bit thinner.
I did try to bring out the upper mids slightly because the vocals sounded much better.. more airy.. and tended to sit with the guitars better. My vocals tend to get a bit boxy around 1-2khz so I cut a little there.

I did mostly make intentional mixing decisions to get this mix to where it is. The difference in thickness between these tracks is basically the results of my average mixing ability (and poor monitoring environment obviously).

I'll have another look and try and adjust using one of my reference tracks. I found it tricky given the number of guitar tracks and the delays, etc to get clarity and separation in the mix.
What would you suggest as the starting point? Is it mainly a few eq adjustments?
Thanks again for listening and helping out

[monolith]

Really nice! You stress too much over the vocals. Your voice fits this genre perfectly. It would be a struggle for a lot of vocalists. I've always like the organic feel of your mixes, however this one does lack the bottom end a little bit. Good work!

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by monolith

Really nice! You stress too much over the vocals. Your voice fits this genre perfectly. It would be a struggle for a lot of vocalists. I've always like the organic feel of your mixes, however this one does lack the bottom end a little bit. Good work!

Thanks monolith. Agree about the bottom end and have already started to try and fix it.
I found quite a big eq bump @8Khz, which I think I did to give it some air. I think it's actually why the upper mids sound thin though. Got rid of that and gave a tiny boost in lower mids.
That eq'ing sounded better but not sure if it's all eq needed....I'll post up in a day or 2 if interested.

Thanks for listening

[OpIvy]

I've made a few changes- mainly eq to try and bring the lower mids out and reduce some of the highs. Also made the bass a bit bassier.
It may not have reduced the thinness in the mids, but the bottom sounds better...

https://soundcloud.com/opivy/from-th...the-heart-remx

Any suggestions?

[OpIvy]

I updated the link to the newest mix (previous post). Things started getting a bit muddy.
One last bump to see if I can get some suggestions......cheers

[hamish]

Really like it. Listened to the latest mix, as of now.

[Cosmic]

Aww this is cracking!

You're getting your shit together BIG TIME!

Mix sounds SAVAGE.Really is top drawer.

RESPECT DUE

Love it.

I have nothing to comment about the mix.Its done as far as I can tell.

[OpIvy]

hamish/ Cosmic- thanks for listening.

So if you happen to listen to the original as well, just wondering....is there a marked improvement in the remix?
I've just totally lost sight/ sound of this.
Waking at 5am with the chorus on repeat in your head kinda makes you realise you've listened enough

Originally Posted by Cosmic

You're getting your shit together BIG TIME!

Now that has improved my day. Thanks man.

[Cosmic]

Originally Posted by OpIvy

I've just totally lost sight/ sound of this.
Waking at 5am with the chorus on repeat in your head kinda makes you realise you've listened enough

You need to walk away when that starts happening.

Just leave it and start a new one man.

But I betcha when you come back to that mix in a week or two..you'll love it.

And you'll hear EXACTLY what ever it is thats bugging ya.

I know it can be hard to let things lie though..theres always a lil tweak or two

[OpIvy]

You're dead right, thanks

[monolith]

The latest mix does sound tons better. The only weird thing is that the kick drum seems non-existent; at least in my earbuds.

Really nice work!

[morgon]

Skill and hard work pays off again. Congrats.

[OpIvy]

Thanks. I think I'll stick this in the done folder for now

Originally Posted by monolith

the kick drum seems non-existent; at least in my earbuds.

Really? It was piss weak in the first mix but I thought it was much more prominent in the remix. In fact, I thought I overdid it. But I'm listening through good headphones that are a little bass heavy

[Fergler]

If they are bass hyped they are not good headphones (for your purposes of mixing). Ofc build quality and pleasure listening to commercial music is another topic.

I'l agree, I hear very little bass end. I downloaded the song and investigated (I love doing that) and found your kick drum pitch to be at around 110hz (pretty common range in general) but your bass guitar is also there quite a lot. Here is what it sounds like filtered like so (note you are also hearing the snare body):



http://picosong.com/cqiz/

Your bass guitar is playing the notes A and B around there which happen to have the low frequencies of .. 110, and 124, which are right where your kick is. This is a good case of, if you know ahead of time, ensuring your kick drum is tuned to a good pitch for your song.

That said, you can get GREAT results just tuning up or down the kick drum to sit above or below the bass guitar in pitch so it doesn't fight (and of course, using sidechain compression or a favourite technique of mine; dynamic high pass filter (using parameter modulation with a low strength, sidechained from the kick) to give the kick drum room to ring out before the bass swamps it).

You can also boost the low frequencies of a kick quite a lot to push though, and finally don't forget about the high end of the kick around 3.5 and 6 khz to pierce through the high end

[OpIvy]

OK, it's back out of the done folder.
I hear exactly what you mean now. I originally had the bass side-chained with a compressor to the kick but it didn't sound right. I'll have another go
I've tried parameter modulation before but never worked it out.

Thanks for having a good look. It's so clear now hearing that sound clip.

BTW, I'm using ATH-M50's, which are pretty decent but obviously not the best to mix with. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with this atm.

[Fergler]

Oh, I'm using the same headphones.
I love them

[TheCaptain]

Enjoyed it! Neat song, sounds good.

Only thing I would moan about would be the drums. Sounds a bit cheap compared to everything else.

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by Fergler

I'l agree, I hear very little bass end. I downloaded the song and investigated (I love doing that) and found your kick drum pitch to be at around 110hz (pretty common range in general) but your bass guitar is also there quite a lot. Here is what it sounds like filtered like so (note you are also hearing the snare body):

Fergler- just wondering it was the remix you were listening to right? 'cause the original mix definately had some kick/ bass masking.

[msore]

I dunno if this is helpful or not, but lemme address the song's development.

First, by the way, I dig the song and the arrangement and the mix and the energy and the vocal performance.

But I hear as it goes along that there are some points of undoing, of letting go of what has been already established, moments of pause or wondering what to do next. Like around 5:30 and then again at the mounting-up end. I am thinking that if I were in an audience, it would all be cool and it would have momentum, but listening in a room, I sense that sometimes the momentum is lost somewhat.

Two things might be done (if it were me). One is to take those moments and subdue them (quiet em down) esp in rhythm section). Then the buildup parts are stronger. The other is to insert a little bit of alternative theme in those parts, to give interest while the buildup gets going.

I hope you know what I mean, and I really enjoyed listening.

[Fergler]

I listened to this:
https://soundcloud.com/opivy/from-th...g-of-the-heart

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by msore

Two things might be done (if it were me). One is to take those moments and subdue them (quiet em down) esp in rhythm section). Then the buildup parts are stronger. The other is to insert a little bit of alternative theme in those parts, to give interest while the buildup gets going.

I hope you know what I mean, and I really enjoyed listening.

I do know what you mean and I did experiment a little with those quieter sections before I settled on this. I actually removed quite alot of twiddly little guitar parts and tried to simplify the between-verse sections. The intention was not necessarily to build up into the bridge/ choruses but more like punch into them.... just with more guitar noise.

This is still one of the hardest parts for me.. taking stuff from my brain and putting it into a DAW.. often things get lost.
Thanks for listening..

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by Fergler

I listened to this:
https://soundcloud.com/opivy/from-th...g-of-the-heart

That was the original that definately needed some bottom end treatment.
I've now just got the 'final' remix on soundcloud at that same link.
I'm hoping the bass/ kick is better. I have possibly overdone the kick a bit but alos used parameter modulation for the first time as you suggested- what a neat trick!

[kindafishy]

I always enjoy your posts. I think you just keep getting better and better. I really (really!) enjoy this song. Your vocals are bang on.

The mix to me, and I am not listening on good phones right now as my room is all torn apart right now, could use a few tweaks. The vocals need to come up. Way up. Way, way up. Don't bury yourself. Right up front, in front of everything else. I also feel that the drums might be over-compressed, particularly the snare. It's way too steady, Freddie. The kick gets lost in some spots too. Seems like there is a lot of low-mid build up and the bass needs some balls.

Jeez... 7:30? It didn't even really feel long! I just noticed that I have been typing for a while and the song is still playing.

I really, really like your style man. I still throw on Kokoda Mud pretty frequently.

Fan!

[BeeStang]

as i try to figure out how to word it i see the post above mine.
great song tho. -in the busy parts the snare sounds fine...
lol fix that damn snare everywhere else

(i feel weird critiquing other ppls music. like... what the hell do i know? im a mechanic)

[OpIvy]

Thanks alot for listening
I know there's a few things that need fixing. You're pretty spot on kindafishy- the snare, the kick.... I spent way too much time trying to tweak every little thing, I sorta lost my way. So it's gone to the 'fix this one day' folder.... I've destroyed many a song fiddling day after day, trying to get every detail right! I'm stopping here this time

Glad you enjoyed and appreciate the comments.

beestang- I just think it's rad that people are in this sub-forum helping out with some advice or just having a listen...

[msundh]

Originally Posted by BeeStang

(i feel weird critiquing other ppls music. like... what the hell do i know? im a mechanic)

I felt the same before, but if you think there is something that is less good with a song, then it is, no matter if you're a good at mixing or not.
It's all opinions, no one is rigth. It's up to the receiver to decide if a comment is good or not.
Keep on comment the music

[msundh]

Always nice to listen to your songs. My main concern is the vocals that is too low.

[g4greg]

yeah, I like this!

british rock at its best


there's kind of a chorus effect (delay?) on your voice...

I think that matching that delay to the song tempo would do wonders to the song.

Witti has a niiice JS pre-delay calculator for this, it's awesome!.. just copy and paste...


And I hope your voice is OK after all that screaming


awesome job!

[OpIvy]

Originally Posted by g4greg

Witti has a niiice JS pre-delay calculator for this, it's awesome!.. just copy and paste...

Excellent- I've been looking for something like this so I'll give it a try.
I do have the vox sent to a pong delay and struggled to get the right timing

[Naji]

Great track, superb drums, enjoyed listening !

[zeekat]

Nice example of the mixing hell . Awesome large sounding tune. I'm not a fan of those big room reverbs from drum samplers but here it only adds to the space and bigness that's in the vocals and wide guitars, good stuff.

[Timothy Lawler]

I love the vocal and the creativity of the song. There are lots of good things in this but the vocal is the best of them. It's hidden at times. Bring it up.