Axiom Pro with Garritan

[dobro]

Hey, long time no see. I'm having a problem getting Garritan Orchestra to work with my AxiomPro. The AxiomPro works well triggering stuff in Kontakt for example, but I'm really struggling to get it to work with Garritan Orchestra. However, I can get the Garritan stuff working on my Roland keyboard - it triggers everything just fine. Because it works on the Roland, I figure the problem with the AxiomPro can't be a setting in Reaper, right? So where should I look? AxiomPro? Garritan? Up in the sky?

[dobro]

Hm...so which is it - the question's impossible to answer, or I'm being impossibly stupid?

[hopi]

how many keys on it? does it trigger anything? I assume it does show up in reaper as a midi device??? yes? I assume you have it selected as the input device???

only other thought... m-audio is notorious for messed up drivers.. and sometimes for unknown reasons the drivers get hosed in the system... so for starters maybe reinstall them????

[dobro]

Originally Posted by hopi

how many keys on it?

49. Why do you ask?

Originally Posted by hopi

does it trigger anything?

Sure - it successfully triggers anything I load into Kontakt, for example. It works with FL Studio instruments, too.

Originally Posted by hopi

I assume it does show up in reaper as a midi device??? yes? I assume you have it selected as the input device???

Yes, and yes.

Originally Posted by hopi

only other thought... m-audio is notorious for messed up drivers.. and sometimes for unknown reasons the drivers get hosed in the system... so for starters maybe reinstall them????

I didn't know that. I'll try reinstalling the drivers. Thanks, hopi.

Oh...the reason I'd like to make it work with the Garritan stuff is simply because it has a mod wheel (which my Roland doesn't). The mod wheel's useful for doing volume changes while I'm playing a part.

[G-Sun]

So,
if you insert a midi-logger (JS midi_logger) before the Aria vsti.

Does it show input-messages, notes and cc?

[hopi]

so let's see

if it triggers kontakt ok that means it is working ok

so the prob is ONLY with ARIA [I hate aria btw]

but it seems like the prob may be something with the midi channels used

I'd look into that...

I'd also test if ARIA works from the virtual midi keyboard in reaper...

[dobro]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

So,
if you insert a midi-logger (JS midi_logger) before the Aria vsti.

Does it show input-messages, notes and cc?

I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll do it and see what happens. Thanks.

[dobro]

Originally Posted by hopi

so let's see

if it triggers kontakt ok that means it is working ok

so the prob is ONLY with ARIA [I hate aria btw]

but it seems like the prob may be something with the midi channels used

I'd look into that...

I'd also test if ARIA works from the virtual midi keyboard in reaper...

The problem could easily be how I'm routing things, cuz I don't understand what I'm doing really. Here's the path I use that works for Kontakt and other stuff:

Input:MIDI > Axiom Pro 49 USB A In > All Channels

Is that okay, or should I be selecting specific channels instead of All Channels?

[dobro]

hopi, maybe I've found something. That path I posted above isn't exactly correct. It's actually this:

2 Input:MIDI > Axiom Pro 49 USB A In > All Channels

(I didn't think the 2 was significant, so I didn't include it.) But just now, I loaded an ensemble into the Aria Player, and the only thing it plays out of five instruments is the one on Channel Two.

[dobro]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

So,
if you insert a midi-logger (JS midi_logger) before the Aria vsti.

Does it show input-messages, notes and cc?

It's just columns of figures that I don't understand, but every time I hit a note, it scrolls up. (When I stop playing, it scrolls up too - what's that about?) Where can I go to find out what the numbers mean?

[dobro]

This is frustrating. I don't know if the problem's my ignorance of the AxiomPro, Garritan, or Reaper. Whatcha think? Where to start?

[dobro]

Originally Posted by hopi

so the prob is ONLY with ARIA [I hate aria btw]

Yeah, I get that. I saved up a bunch of money a couple of years ago and then spent it all on plugins that I'd heard about. Garritan Personal Orchestra was one of them. I'm not in love with the sounds - they're not particularly realistic in many cases, and useful only for unassuming backing parts - but what can you expect for $150? I can't afford the really good librairies. It ain't my day job.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by hopi

so let's see

if it triggers kontakt ok that means it is working ok

so the prob is ONLY with ARIA [I hate aria btw]

but it seems like the prob may be something with the midi channels used

I'd look into that...

I'd also test if ARIA works from the virtual midi keyboard in reaper...

I find Aria ok.
Yes, check the if the instrument is set to right midi-channel

[Tod]

Originally Posted by dobro

Yeah, I get that. I saved up a bunch of money a couple of years ago and then spent it all on plugins that I'd heard about. Garritan Personal Orchestra was one of them. I'm not in love with the sounds - they're not particularly realistic in many cases, and useful only for unassuming backing parts - but what can you expect for $150? I can't afford the really good librairies. It ain't my day job.

Hey that's okay dobro, I understand, Garritan's not the greatest but if you figure out how to use the CC controllers that are part of it, you can get some pretty good usable results. As far as the Aria Player goes, it's just a Player and as a Player it works okay (as good or better than a lot of other players). The important thing is to learn how all the different parts work and one of the most important things is to learn how to use all the CC controllers and how to best apply FX, that makes the difference between "sort of okay" to "hey that's not too bad", especially with Garritan libraries. Of course you also have to understand how to assign instruments to the various 16 instrument slots as well as how to assign MIDI channel numbers and outputs on the Aria GUI.

I think your problem is your track layout and the routing.

There are different takes on what I'm going to tell you, and many don't agree with me, but this is what works best for me and works all the time.

1> You have to have a track with MIDI Input selected from your AxiomPro and it's best to set it to "All". On the I/O of that track you have to select the Aria VSTi tracks as a Send and it needs to be set Audio:None MIDI:All->X, "X" being the midi channel. Depending on what you're trying to do, you might also want a MIDI Item on that track but that's not necessary to get your Axiom to work.

2> You need another track with the Aria VSTi FX on it, that's all that should be on that track. Some people use that as their MIDI track too but I don't recommend that, use separate MIDI tracks. The track I list above in "1" would be one of those Midi tracks.

3> You want your Aria outputs to show up in Reaper and I think you already know how to assign those, right.

For each Aria (Garritan) instrument you'll want a separate MIDI track assigned with a Midi Channel that goes to the instrument you're working with that you've assigned in Aria.

In the Aria Player itself, you assign which Midi channel will be used for each instrument, as well as it's output (up to 16).

I'm sorry dobro, if I've added confusion to your already confused situation.

[dobro]

hopi, Gsun, Tod: Hey, thanks for trying to help. I've tried Tod's suggestion, and I've tried hopi's tutorial in his sig, and I've looked at Youtube tutorials but this thing's defeated me. It's making me crazy, so I have to stop.

If I load the Aria player into the track FX, I can manage to play whatever's in slot one of the Aria player on the Roland, and I can manage to play whatever's in slot 2 on the Axiom. But no way can I get ensembles working. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the Garritan stuff, but the situation's the same. I'll just record one track at a time, loading one instrument at a time. Not ideal, but a workaround.

Thanks again for giving me your ideas.

[dobro]

Okay, maybe I've cracked it, but it's just putting new questions in my mind. I set things up the way hopi describes in his tutorial, but the only way I can get Reaper to record the slot in Aria that I've highlighted is if I change the channel on my keyboard to match the slot. Is that standard procedure, or is this as new to you as it is to me?

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by dobro

Okay, maybe I've cracked it, but it's just putting new questions in my mind. I set things up the way hopi describes in his tutorial, but the only way I can get Reaper to record the slot in Aria that I've highlighted is if I change the channel on my keyboard to match the slot. Is that standard procedure, or is this as new to you as it is to me?

Yes, standard procedure is selecting channel on your Axiom,
then play the instrument loaded on that slot in Aria.
There are other ways, but that's the standard.

[dobro]

Damn. Near suicidal last night. One thing about this is that I'll never forget it. I'm thinking of having a tatoo made to commemorate it.

[DarkStar]

[At the risk of complicating things ... ]

I will guess that each slot in Aria / GPO is set to "listen to" a different MIDI channel.

Notes on MIDI channel 01 drive the instrument in the first slot.
Notes on MIDI channel 02 drive the instrument in the second slot.
Notes on MIDI channel 03 drive the instrument in the third slot.
etc

As you've found, and G-Sun confirmed, changing the MIDI channel on the Axiom drives a different instrument.

------------------------
Or, you can force the MIDI input to a track onto a specific MIDI channel. As in:

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Saday3X.png

Or, if you use the "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing to this track" option for GPO, then you will automatically get 16 "MIDI" tracks and the MIDI on each track is converted to the appropriate MIDI channel when it is Sent to the GPO track. Here is an example, for Kontakt, showing some of the "MIDI" tracks and the Sends:

[DarkStar]

Thinking about it, the channel can be changed at any of these three stages:

• on the Axiom,
• when received into the Reaper "MIDI" track,
• when Sent out of the Reaper "MIDI" track to the Aria/GPO track,

There's another method too, which I use

[dobro]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hey that's okay dobro, I understand, Garritan's not the greatest but if you figure out how to use the CC controllers that are part of it, you can get some pretty good usable results. As far as the Aria Player goes, it's just a Player and as a Player it works okay (as good or better than a lot of other players). The important thing is to learn how all the different parts work and one of the most important things is to learn how to use all the CC controllers and how to best apply FX, that makes the difference between "sort of okay" to "hey that's not too bad", especially with Garritan libraries.

Thanks for that. I had to learn the routing thing first, but I'm looking forward to exploring the CC controllers. I got a tutorial by Eli Krantzberg and he talks about that as well. I'm also thinking (but don't tell anyone) that instead of trying to make Garritan sound as realistic as possible, there's more mileage in getting it to sound as interesting as possible. I mean, why try to make fake fiddles sound like real violins? No reason, especially if you can make the fake fiddles sound interesting.

[dobro]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

Thinking about it, the channel can be changed at any of these three stages:

• on the Axiom,
• when received into the Reaper "MIDI" track,
• when Sent out of the Reaper "MIDI" track to the Aria/GPO track,

There's another method too, which I use

I'm sure there is. I'm also confident that at some point I'll be using MIDI to go out and fetch my beer without let or hindrance. Until then, I'll work with the first of the three methods you listed. Those last two methods are set up in the I/O of which track, though?

[DarkStar]

Those two are the two solutions in my previous post


(b) does not use the I/O dialogue; it's on the RecArm context menu
(c) is set up in the I/O of each "MIDI" track (and, therefore, at the other end, on the VSTi track)

[hopi]

I don't use the axiom ... but I use other midi keyboards...

I have them always set to channel 1

then I use routing to send what I record to various other channels on a multi channel vsti... like Kontakt or Aria...

I think I covered that in the tutorial but only showed the concept for 2 or 3 channels... I assumed it obvious that you could continue to do that for 16 possible midi channels...

[dobro]

Originally Posted by hopi

I don't use the axiom ... but I use other midi keyboards...

I have them always set to channel 1

then I use routing to send what I record to various other channels on a multi channel vsti... like Kontakt or Aria...

I wonder what's different in our situations, then? The only way I can get it to work is to choose a different keyboard channel each time I want a different instrument in the multichannel vsti.

Oh...one last thing. Following your tutorial instructions, I couldn't make it work until I had also selected 'all channels on the Input: MIDI' track as well. I don't think you'd mentioned that.

[dobro]

Okay, I recorded six violin tracks tonight, all from the same VSTi. Nice.

Thanks, you guys.