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Old 12-30-2012, 08:52 AM   #201
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Is there no way to replace Jack with something a little less shite?

This is the one thing that I always seem to have problems with every time I do a Linux Audio install.

Maybe it is just me....
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:32 PM   #202
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Is there no way to replace Jack with something a little less shite?

This is the one thing that I always seem to have problems with every time I do a Linux Audio install.

Maybe it is just me....
For low latency audio? I don't know of anything better. The thing is that many aspects of Linux are exactly like that - yes, that's all there is. No, it's not only you, but one of the reasons for it is that guys like you and I bitch about these things, without getting involved to help change it. Another is that some hardware manufacturers have no interest in getting their gear working in Linux, and that goes back to us not using Linux because of these problems. In the meantime, free software developers are doing something, even if it doesn't agree with what us Windows users are used to. Some of those devs might not ever use Windows, they might not care how it is done in Windows, or they might not have the time and resources available to get things to where they should be. What could not hurt is for us to spend some time learning more about the software, talking about it with other users, identifying it's issues, offering suggestions, helping where we are able, etc., as a lot of free software is community based.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:24 AM   #203
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I dont know about you, but I would be terrified of contacting any of the brainiac codeheads involved in Linux development. I am not even able to speak a language they understand well enough for me to be able to explain what I (and I stress the word I) think is needed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:21 AM   #204
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So how does one run VSTs?
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:37 AM   #205
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Default More on Reaper in Linux

After success with Reaper running in Kubuntu using Wine, I decided to try in Ubuntu Studio. It runs just as well, unless jack is started. Then Reaper loads in Wine, but refuses to play. Stopping jack gets it running. It is, of course, getting the benefit of the RT kernel, but alsa cannot be tweaked to actually make full use of the improvement.

I had a look in Audacity to see how that program handled it. In common with Audacity on other platforms, it allows either the default system inputs and outputs or it allows selection of specific hardware interfaces.

In Ubuntu Studio it has the choice of the system default or jack source and jack sink. I had a look in Wine configuration, but it had not been modified to provide access to jack interfaces. If the Wine team could be encouraged to produce a jack configuration, then Reaper would be able to use all the jack enabled audio and MIDI interfaces along with any other audio program running in Wine. That would tide us over while we wait for a native version.

I am sorely tempted to invest in one of those mult-channel Focusrite USB Saffire interfaces until the Firewire one is catered for. Has anyone got one of these running in Linux? I may try recording multi-channel audio in Audacity via Firewire and importing the media files into Wine/Reaper tracks for further editing and mixing.

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Old 12-31-2012, 11:17 AM   #206
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For low latency audio? I don't know of anything better. The thing is that many aspects of Linux are exactly like that - yes, that's all there is.
The main audio architecture on Linux is ALSA. Then the guy from Ardour thought it would be better to have another layer above that for his DAW so he created Jack.

Audio on Linux basically looks like:

from http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-w...udio-explained

Some might even argue it looks like:


Saying that Linux is somehow laking alternatives is quite amusing to people actually using Linux. Because there are way too many alternatives. This causes heaps of problems, e.g. developer X must test his software with ALSA, OSS, PulseAudio, Jack, ...
If you want it Linux has it ... but getting there is sometimes not the easiest of ways.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:19 PM   #207
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Is there no way to replace Jack with something a little less shite?

This is the one thing that I always seem to have problems with every time I do a Linux Audio install.

Maybe it is just me....
It's not just you...

I have a Tascam US-800 that I was (much to my surprise) successful in getting to work in Ubuntu Studio 12.04. Ardour "seen" all the inputs and outputs etc and it seems to work okay. BUT... the stupid thing is hit and miss about the USB connection when starting the machine. If it doesn't connect, JACK craps the bed and refuses to cooperate until I restart and the USB connection is succesful. This NEVER happens in Windows. So... here anyway Linux for DAW use remains a "no go". Besides that and as someone else pointed out; "How do you use VST's/VSTi's??"

Bummer.

D
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:30 AM   #208
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The main audio architecture on Linux is ALSA. Then the guy from Ardour thought it would be better to have another layer above that for his DAW so he created Jack.

Audio on Linux basically looks like:

from http://tuxradar.com/content/how-it-w...udio-explained

Some might even argue it looks like:


Saying that Linux is somehow laking alternatives is quite amusing to people actually using Linux. Because there are way too many alternatives. This causes heaps of problems, e.g. developer X must test his software with ALSA, OSS, PulseAudio, Jack, ...
If you want it Linux has it ... but getting there is sometimes not the easiest of ways.
See my previous comment about low latency. And also consider how fragmented audio software is on Linux. Ardour has audio, no MIDI (stable version), Rosegarden has MIDI with poor audio support, and if you want a drum machine, throw in Hydrogen, and if you want something else, etc......Now, is there an alternative to Jack, for actually running a stable set of tools for use as what we consider on Windows to be a daw? - daw having full featured audio, midi, plugins, etc. But I appreciate the audio stack lesson.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:13 AM   #209
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A fully priced Reaper port would be a commercial success because there are a lot of serious Linux audio folk out there spending a lot of cash on the hardware. Reaper would have the platform to itself. I hope the recent lack of posts in this thread do not suggest that interest is waning. The Linux folk don't know that Reaper is even a possibility.

Roy Leith
For somebody who seems to now something of Linux audio, you also seem to either be slightly silly or indeed don't know as much about Linux audio as you think
Reaper would not have the platform to itself

EnergyXT - Audio/MIDI/Instruments/effects built in (Reaper doesn't have any instruments) Linux VST invented by the developer f EnergyXT

Bitwig - Not available yet but coming soon - Audio/MIDI/Large selection of instruments/effects built in

There are plenty of others natively but other than Renoise these are the main two that would also cover Mac/WIn, Harrison Mixbus was just on sale for $40 which is cheaper than Reaper and MIDI is coming to that too.

The idea that Reaper would be chosen by Linux users over something that was only available on Linux is ridiculous, Most Linux users are heavily biased towards open source software and there are a literal plethora of native Linux apps they would rather use (95% of Reapers users who think they are quite advanced, and are actually extremely basic users and use hardly any of its capabilities, look through the forum yourself to see)

A linux port will probably happen, but i really hope the current devs don't do it, the development of Reaper slowed down massively when they ported to OSX and keeping a Linux port up to date too i worry for their ability to even get minimal updates out on a regular basis


Now all that said, WTF, seriously, run windows or OSX and have low latency/a huge selection of plugins (And don't give me that junk about not giving money to Apple or MS, you buy stuff off companies that are just as bad, thats right the hardware you run Linux on hahahahaha)
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Last edited by Win Conway; 01-01-2013 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:49 PM   #210
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It's not just you...

I have a Tascam US-800 that I was (much to my surprise) successful in getting to work in Ubuntu Studio 12.04. Ardour "seen" all the inputs and outputs etc and it seems to work okay. BUT... the stupid thing is hit and miss about the USB connection when starting the machine. If it doesn't connect, JACK craps the bed and refuses to cooperate until I restart and the USB connection is succesful. This NEVER happens in Windows. So... here anyway Linux for DAW use remains a "no go". Besides that and as someone else pointed out; "How do you use VST's/VSTi's??"

Bummer.

D
Yeah... that... I'm putting XP back on that box. Tired of JACK being a JACKA$$ and all the other crap that doesn't work.

Oh well... I had some fun and distractions over the holidays playing with Linux... but it's over. (For another year or two anyway.)

D
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #211
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Grab AVLinux6. Ready to go with the ability to load VST's. Solid for Audio, not a heavey MIDI user, but midi works in Rosegarden from my tests with Synth1 and my KeyRig 49 USB.

Try out the Mixbus demo that is included. Fall in love.

Jump on the Mixbus sale going on for $40 till tomorrow. Get Mixbus 2.2 for Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Have fun!
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:02 AM   #212
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See my previous comment about low latency.
See the diagram Jack uses ALSA or OSS. So using ALSA or OSS directly should give even better latency, no?

I mean the idea behind Jack is great, provide a virtual patch bay. Now the implementation (last time I checked) doesn't seem very robust. Though it somehow established itself to be the "ASIO" of Linux, your app not supporting it you get booed by the masses.

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And also consider how fragmented audio software is on Linux. Ardour has audio, no MIDI (stable version), Rosegarden has MIDI with poor audio support, and if you want a drum machine, throw in Hydrogen, and if you want something else, etc......
That's what I mean it isn't the lack of alternatives it actually is the vastness of alternatives that is killing everything. Even worse any second what used to be one project might be forked into two or three or zero. It is all very volatile.

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Now, is there an alternative to Jack, for actually running a stable set of tools for use as what we consider on Windows to be a daw? - daw having full featured audio, midi, plugins, etc. But I appreciate the audio stack lesson.
EnergyXT.

For open source Linux applications that don't use Jack you are correct there are none because Jack established itself as the do or die feature of "professional" audio apps on Linux.
Anyway my point is there are alternatives for Jack for low latency i/o though your point seems to be that there are no alternative applications using these alternatives. imo both are correct.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:06 AM   #213
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A linux port will probably happen
It seems you haven't read the thread title. A Linux version is already happening: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=22836

The problem is the open source part that is supposed to be implemented by the community never took off.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:38 AM   #214
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mad demon, alsa being low latency doesn't help so long as the applications are broken up, needing a patchbay to run multiple applications at once. I haven't tried EnergyXT as an all in one solution. Can it run vst plugins on Linux?
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:01 AM   #215
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Grab AVLinux6. Ready to go with the ability to load VST's. Solid for Audio, not a heavey MIDI user, but midi works in Rosegarden from my tests with Synth1 and my KeyRig 49 USB.

Try out the Mixbus demo that is included. Fall in love.

Jump on the Mixbus sale going on for $40 till tomorrow. Get Mixbus 2.2 for Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Have fun!
Awesome. I grabbed Mixbus 2.2 for 40 lousy bucks. Every time I sneeze a few 20's fly out me arse... so no big deal right?

I also have AVLinux6 to play around with. Maybe this evening... maybe over the weekend.

Thanks for the heads-up.

D
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #216
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I haven't tried EnergyXT as an all in one solution. Can it run vst plugins on Linux?
EnergyXT "invented" the VST in Linux. It can run Linux VSTs: http://energyxt2.wikidot.com/links#toc5 . Though no VSTs that are compiled for Windows (same as Mac can't run Windows VSTs and Windows not being able to run Mac VSTs).
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:24 AM   #217
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This visual has absolved my need for investigating Reaper with linux.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:36 AM   #218
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This visual has absolved my need for investigating Reaper with linux.
It shouldn't. A similar visual for Windows would look the same, just replacing aRts, libao, NAS, ALSA, FFADO and OSS with DirectSound, DirectShow/DirectMedia, WaveOut, WASAPI and ASIO.
Just look at the Device Settings in Reaper's Preferences dialog; Linux audio really isn't any worse than Windows audio.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:20 PM   #219
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To the end-user;

Windows - install driver (if wanted/needed) get to work.

Linux - ruts around for hours... might work/might not and probably definitely won't work after a restart and/or some fiddly component is "updated".

Linux is TONS inferior... TONS. They have a long way to go IMO.

D
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:12 AM   #220
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*sigh*

Windows - install driver (if wanted/needed); get to work.
Linux - optimise system for card (if wanted/needed); get to work.

Some people like Windows, some people like Linux. Let's keep the flame wars out of this, shall we?
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:16 AM   #221
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*sigh*

Windows - install driver (if wanted/needed); get to work.
Linux - optimise system for card (if wanted/needed); get to work.

Some people like Windows, some people like Linux. Let's keep the flame wars out of this, shall we?
Here Here.

Besides, if you wanted an easy life you'd be on mac.



Kind regards

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Old 01-10-2013, 06:42 AM   #222
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*sigh*

Windows - install driver (if wanted/needed); get to work.
Linux - optimise system for card (if wanted/needed); get to work.

Some people like Windows, some people like Linux. Let's keep the flame wars out of this, shall we?
Well, he can't.

He has extra renewed his permission to flame around recently by installing Linux once and removing it almost instantly. Thus he has the right to flood every thread where this OS is mentioned with his explicit Linux hate.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:01 AM   #223
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To the end-user;

Windows - install driver (if wanted/needed) get to work.

Linux - ruts around for hours... might work/might not and probably definitely won't work after a restart and/or some fiddly component is "updated".

Linux is TONS inferior... TONS. They have a long way to go IMO.

D
I'm looking at it like this. First, you should know your way around Linux, including the command line. Yea, you can completely skip the command line in Windows and get along fine, but not so much in Linux. Like it or not, it's the current reality. Second, driver availability isn't so much a Linux problem as it is a problem with hardware manufacturers not making drivers available for Linux. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3OpASA&t=48m10s
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:15 PM   #224
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"people who are easily offended deserve to be offended"
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:33 AM   #225
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"people who are easily offended deserve to be offended"
It's not about being offended or not, it's about keeping the discussion relevant - and trust me, it takes very little to derail a discussion into a flame war when it comes to operating systems.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:53 AM   #226
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Well, he can't.

He has extra renewed his permission to flame around recently by installing Linux once and removing it almost instantly. Thus he has the right to flood every thread where this OS is mentioned with his explicit Linux hate.
Flame wars? Not here. I AM using Linux quite a bit. I haven't given up. I only wrote about my experience with trying to get audio to work reliably. It IS a pain in the arse in Linux. It's a piece of cake in Windows or OSX. No flames, FACT.

I know Linux worshipers are passionate about it but I am trying to be practical here. Everyone I know wants to boot their machine and go to work with no fuss. I can't DO THAT with Linux.

@BW - I have NEVER needed a terminal window to get stuff to work in Windows and I shouldn't have to in Linux... but I do. It's a LONG way from "Average Joe" usability. Oh yeah... manufacturer driver availability is a bummer but you can't blame them really. Most of them can't keep up with the big OS' es never mind an OS that has only a little over 1% market share.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operat...10&qpcustomd=0

Maybe Linux will "get there" someday. It's not today though.

D

PS Don't be ass-hat Linux snobs guys. You might make a few friends. I AM trying to "Linux-ize" myself.

PPS Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on Dell e6520 i7 (Grub boot manager, dual booting Win 7) can't get audio usable enough for DAW work... been trying since before Christmas. The Tascam US-800 is a no-go here for some reason? Onboard audio is hit or miss... sounds crap anyway... noisy.

AVLinux6 on AMD Athlon 3200+ system (only OS on that one) this one works pretty well... even USB audio with Tascam US-800. Can't get Wi-Fi adapter to work... yet. Going to try NDIS next.

Last edited by Diogenes; 01-11-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #227
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Flame wars? Not here. I AM using Linux quite a bit. I haven't given up. I only wrote about my experience with trying to get audio to work reliably. It IS a pain in the arse in Linux. It's a piece of cake in Windows or OSX. No flames, FACT.
Maybe in your case. But you are posting this shit over and over again in every thread that even briefly mentions Linux. It even looks like you're wating for someone to mention Linux so you can get started. This kind of passionate hate spreading IS flaming. And it's incredible annoying too. So you don't like using Linux for audio? Fine. But stop flooding the entire forum with your Linux hate.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #228
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UGH!! I don't HATE Linux! Have you not read what I just wrote? I can only relate MY experience dude. Yours is great? Well I'm happy for you. It has been a trying time for ME. So I say "I never have this problem on Windows." Big deal, it is the truth. If the truth hurts that's just the way it is. Deal with it.

D
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:53 AM   #229
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[..]
PPS Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on Dell e6520 i7 (Grub boot manager, dual booting Win 7) can't get audio usable enough for DAW work... been trying since before Christmas. The Tascam US-800 is a no-go here for some reason? Onboard audio is hit or miss... sounds crap anyway... noisy.

AVLinux6 on AMD Athlon 3200+ system (only OS on that one) this one works pretty well... even USB audio with Tascam US-800. Can't get Wi-Fi adapter to work... yet. Going to try NDIS next.
Now that part was constructive and would have fit the discussion much better, though still slightly off topic. The rest, not so much.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:38 PM   #230
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Posting system specs is constructive but asking "Why doesn't this WORK as well as the other guys?" is not? That's kind of backward isn't it?

Ivan asked about JACK... I responded that my experience was the same. It works... it doesn't work... it works... it doesn't ... WHY?

I bought Harrison Mixbus as a sort of "here is some cash to further the cause" gesture. It runs beautifully... under Windows. If not for the messed up Linux audio subsystems it MIGHT run beautifully under Linux. HERE it does not. I would love to have Reaper working but as long as this subsystem is shit why bother? Full steam ahead on Win and OSX... Linux will come half-assing along in ten years or so.

Again... I AM NOT HATING. I AM WANTING... for it to just work. Every time...

D
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #231
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No, saying "it works on this system, except that part, but not on this system" is constructive - it wasn't about just the specs.

Saying generically that Linux is "TONS inferior" with the closest thing to reasoning being that it doesn't work after updating "some fiddly component" and restarting (which generally is not the way things work in Linux) is not argumentation, it's closer to FUD.

Now, I'm not saying you haven't tried getting / isn't trying to get into Linux or that you hate everything Linux; just that that specific comment was getting into flame war territory and we should strive to avoid that.

Let's get back to talking about how/when we get Reaper natively on Linux

Last edited by Cybolic; 01-13-2013 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Added a rather important "not".
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:58 AM   #232
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Fair enough!

For the record, I have the US-800 working reliably now. It took some bizzaro settings in JACK that (to me) make no sense at all. The important thing is; IT WORKS!

Now I have to put Mixbus 2.2 on this box...

D

PS Oh yeah, this is KXStudio now... never did get wi-fi going on AVLinux. Works a treat here. Banged in the WEP key and bada-bing...

PPS I believe KXStudio is Ubuntu based? Maybe that's why the wi-fi worked. It always works in Ubuntu distros. Maybe they package more or better drivers?

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Old 01-24-2013, 09:49 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Robomusic View Post
I have never downloaded it, but i do have win Reaper running somewhat on wine. It actually works a bit, but it struggles because i do no know how to manipulate Jack, or Pulse audio
You cannot use jack with Reaper running in Wine. That is a shame because it is the only way to get Firewire interfaces to work. However, I see elsewhere in the site that there is a WineASIO driver available which works with Reaper and that is the route to getting the Windows version of Reaper to work well in Wine.

When I have downloaded the files, I will install it in Ubuntu Studio which has a low-latency kernel (and, BTW, comes with jack installed and preconfigured). However, I have already installed it in Kubuntu without an ASIO driver and it seems to run well with the stock kernel and audio system. I have never got jack to run in Kubuntu, but it is probably a waste of effort trying. Use a proper audio and video distro if you want to do audio with native Linux applications.

We really need the native Linux version of Reaper that supports jack and makes the Firewire interfaces available.

Roy Leith
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by royleith View Post
You cannot use jack with Reaper running in Wine. That is a shame because it is the only way to get Firewire interfaces to work. However, I see elsewhere in the site that there is a WineASIO driver available which works with Reaper and that is the route to getting the Windows version of Reaper to work well in Wine.

[...]

Roy Leith
WineASIO actually is a Wine interface to Jack, so you can use Jack with Reaper in Wine. It's pretty tricky to set up in 64bit, but in 32bit LinReaper has it included *shameless plug*.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #235
haukurhafsteins
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Default Reaper on Wine with NI Komplete 9

Hi

I just tried running Reaper on my new PC (Linux) machine and would like some input on a few problems.

First, few words on why I decided to try this:
I recently bought the Native Instruments Komplete 9 (K9) bundle. Installed it on my old windows machine were I am using Reaper as my DAW. Everything worked OK but slow because my hardware is slow and K9 is hungry on resources. I therefore ended up buying a new computer (i7, 8GB, 250SSD and 2x1TB raid1) for 970 euros. Doing that, I was asked if I wanted Windows installed. It costs extra 157 euros. And here comes the point that bothers me: It looks like I dont have a choice, I have to pay this fee to Microsoft and there are no alternatives (not ready to pay extra 500euros for Mac).
Well, there is on alternative and that is Linux with Wine.

The goal:
Run Reaper and Komplete 9 under Linux on my new PC with AudioBox 1818VSL connected over ADAT to Yamaha 01V96 mixer.

I did try two audio distributions, Ubuntu Studio and KXStudio. I ended up using KXStudio, tried both, got much further with the experiment in KXStudio.

Result:
Installing KXStudio: No problems, added newest wine repository and upgraded.
Installing Reaper: No problems.
Installing Komplete 9: No problems but did not try all instruments (installed Software Center, FM8, Kontakt, Guitar Rig and some other stuff).
Connection to AudioBox: The 8 audio inputs work flawlessly. I have not been able to get the ADAT channels working. Inside Reaper I use ASIO with WineASIO. In KXStudio I use "Cadence" (a gui to adjust Jack and other audio settings) to setup Jack and the WineASIO driver. WineASIO is setup for 18 channels and it looks like Jack accepts the hardware with 18 inputs and outputs.

Questions (if someone has the answers):
What am I missing regarding the ADAT and what can I do to debug it, is it something inside Reaper?
Are there any benchmarks available about running Reaper in Wine instead of Windows?
Reaper is a 32bit app in Wine, what memory limitations can I expect, It can probably not address the 8GB?

Overall:
This has been quite smooth installation and I'm pretty close to my goal
I know there are many questions unanswered and lot of things I still need to try out (like midi, stability etc.). But so far so good.

HH

Last edited by haukurhafsteins; 09-01-2013 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention Reaper in one of the questions
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:00 PM   #236
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So I guess the Linux port will not happen anymore? It's a shame...I really need a good complement to Renoise, and I really don't like rebooting into Windows all the time. Well, Bitwig will probably come soon. Let's see...I would have preferred Reaper though.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:16 PM   #237
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i agree that it's too bad the linux option doesn't seem to have progressed. linux is my platform of choice. would love to be able to do my audio in it.

thanks,
BabaG
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:25 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fladd View Post
So I guess the Linux port will not happen anymore? It's a shame...I really need a good complement to Renoise, and I really don't like rebooting into Windows all the time. Well, Bitwig will probably come soon. Let's see...I would have preferred Reaper though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by babag View Post
i agree that it's too bad the linux option doesn't seem to have progressed. linux is my platform of choice. would love to be able to do my audio in it.

thanks,
BabaG
There was mention of a bounty for a GTK hacker to work on porting Reaper to Linux. Maybe one of you know someone?

And from the interwebs, March 2013:

Quote:
Justin, are you still looking for some nasty linux guy for reaper port?
Quote:
Yeah someone with deep GTK+ and Win32 familiarity could do some magic.
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:59 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fladd View Post
So I guess the Linux port will not happen anymore? It's a shame...I really need a good complement to Renoise, and I really don't like rebooting into Windows all the time. Well, Bitwig will probably come soon. Let's see...I would have preferred Reaper though.
With Wine-rt, Cadence http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Applications:Cadence for configuring Jack, and LinReaper for installing Reaper, it works great on Linux.

It'd be nice if it ran natively, but that it runs is what matters most to me. With the above set up, it runs very well.
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