Snap To Zero Still Isnt Accurate

strunkdts · 08-04-2011, 11:17 PM

its always irked me that when SNAP is enabled my items dont ALWAYS hit the zero point. .97 or .04 aint gonna cut it.

Also when i zoom right in at the zero point my item says its at .00 but its not on the line.

'sup wit dat?

fatphil · 08-05-2011, 01:21 AM

I had a similar problem. I created some regions which I "thought" were exactly 4 bars long, but for some weird reason they're a few click off the line, but if you're not zoomed in you can't see it.

The problem becomes very apparent when you cut and move a region(and the clips within it). You get left with mini clips of either the beginning or end of where you cut the region.

I think it's something to do with the way I selected the region, and it snapped to the end of an "ever so slightly short" vocal clip, and not to the beginning or end of the bar. It's a bit of a pain the butt if you don't notice right away.

Dunno if it's the same prob as you're talking about but it sounds similar.

gofer · 08-05-2011, 02:53 AM

I first mistook "Snap to zero" for some zero crossing problem... but you mean simple snap to grid, yes?

Is "Snap to project sample rate" enabled in snap settings? In that case you likely see the expected thing happen (samples most often don't fall on the bar/beat grid). If it happens with that setting disabled we seem to still be facing some rounding error problem.

Checked and confirmed. It seems off even with snap to sample rate disabled

.

DVDdoug · 08-05-2011, 12:45 PM

I don't know anything about this feature, so I might be on the wrong track here...

But, if you are trying to snap to a zero-crossing in the waveform, remember you are not dealing with an analog waveform. You are dealing with quantized/digitized data. The samples can go from a positive value to negative (or vice versa) and there may not be a sample with a value of zero! Exact-zero samples are somewhat rare, and if you've done mixing/processing (in floating-point), exact zero values will be even more rare.

copacetic · 08-05-2011, 12:48 PM

What happens if you turn off 'snap media items to nearby media items'?

I had a crazy snapping issue before this, but not sure if it's related at all.

@ fatphil, your issue sounds exactly like mine, check the setting I mentioned.

beatbybit · 08-05-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVDdoug

..Exact-zero samples are somewhat rare, and if you've done mixing/processing (in floating-point), exact zero values will be even more rare.

yeah. and there are the stereo media..

here are some thoughts about rounding issues we have/had:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=70335

gofer · 08-05-2011, 01:34 PM

The thread title is misleading. OP talks about snapping items to bars. At least I think. Strunkdts, can you pleas clarify what zero point means for you?

I withdraw my confirmation (for now). Must have been pre coffee. with snap to sample off I get proper bar/beat positions, it seems.

fatphil · 08-05-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copacetic

What happens if you turn off 'snap media items to nearby media items'?

I had a crazy snapping issue before this, but not sure if it's related at all.

@ fatphil, your issue sounds exactly like mine, check the setting I mentioned.

Thanks, I'll check that out. Will report back...

strunkdts · 08-05-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatphil

I had a similar problem. I created some regions which I "thought" were exactly 4 bars long, but for some weird reason they're a few click off the line, but if you're not zoomed in you can't see it.

The problem becomes very apparent when you cut and move a region(and the clips within it). You get left with mini clips of either the beginning or end of where you cut the region.

I think it's something to do with the way I selected the region, and it snapped to the end of an "ever so slightly short" vocal clip, and not to the beginning or end of the bar. It's a bit of a pain the butt if you don't notice right away.

Dunno if it's the same prob as you're talking about but it sounds similar.

yeah, thats it. SNAP TO GRID > /zero(?)

but its not cos of the way one selects an item. Its just the way REAPER works/doesnt work.

this has always been like this and is infuriating.

If its enabled and im moving media to grid i expect it to SNAP there. Dead, spot on each and everytime.

There is no pattern in how it doesnt work either. Sometimes it will hit the grid, then most other times youre lucky to get within .02 of where it should be. Even when youre zoomed all the way in.

And why do i need to be zoomed right in to get even close?

SNAP is enabled!

it also sometimes happens when dragging out an item to fill 2bars for example, or whatever length. It doesnt exactly hit the grid. Out by .02 or so.

I find bumping media up against each other with sanp enabled works fine.

Also whats with the incorrect visual representation? Zoom right in on your projects and u will see that theres an irregular behaviour in things saying theryre on bar at .00, .25, .50, when visually theyre out by a bit.

strunkdts · 08-05-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

Strunkdts, can you pleas clarify what zero point means for you?
with snap to sample off I get proper bar/beat positions, it seems.

zero point..i meant bars, yes.

this behaviour for me happens with "snap to sample" off.

Its only .02 or so out...but i write alot of my beats with samples on the grid. If i copy paste a section of stuff which starts not on grid, the rest of my track is then out of whack. If i then go back in to fatten bits up by aligning them with other beats and they then DO snap to grid, my beats and hits arent firing tightly together. I can hear this tiny difference in time. Its sounds squashed and dull as opposed to hard and tight.

beatbybit · 08-05-2011, 06:23 PM

what if you leave "snap media items to nearby media items up to.. " ON, and set it to 0 ?

strunkdts · 08-05-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

what if you leave "snap media items to nearby media items up to.. " ON, and set it to 0 ?

i will try later today and get back to you.

gotta take my boy to the park just now.

gofer · 08-05-2011, 06:41 PM

Sorry, can't reproduce. You say you snap an item to say bar 5 and it actually snaps to 5.0.02 or 4.4.98 or even greater offset? No idea. That's too much for a simple rounding error of the kind we have seen when audio is split.

Maybe something with relative snap? Is that on or off? And which readout do you watch to get the position?

strunkdts · 08-06-2011, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

You say you snap an item to say bar 5 and it actually snaps to 5.0.02 or 4.4.98 or even greater offset? No idea. That's too much for a simple rounding error of the kind we have seen when audio is split.

Maybe something with relative snap? Is that on or off? And which readout do you watch to get the position?

Exactly.

The readout i take is from the dialogue that appears when you select the item. eg "Start: 05.00.00"

I need explain a bit clearer.

I CAN get items to snap to grid/at the zero point(.00) - BUT it isnt consistent or always accurate.

I find i need to zoom right in to make sure all my items are where i want them. Usually i need to fiddle with the item,,,dragging it back and forth until it hits the zero point/grid. Sometimes it will refuse to do it until i zoom in even further. Often i will just "disable snap to grid" to get it done.....AND THEN when i zoom in when it reads at .00, the visual/edge of item is not sitting on the grid. (i find visual inconsistencies in the waveforms/items/media all the time. They may infact play where they say they are, but when i see them out of line it makes me freakout and spend way too much time forensically studying and shifting all my items)

I have tweaked with suggestions made, and behaviour is still the same.

My machine isnt hooked up to the net, otherwise i would make a Jing of it to show what i mean.

i was thinking could this be due to different types of imported media? I often cut up and import all kinds of stuff from mp3s of differing kbps, wavs and samples, mic in, line in....all of which may be at different sample rates. Was this what was being mentioned earlier? Would it make a difference?

BUT STILL...to my original point: "No matter how far zoomed out i may be, surely i should be able to rely on my media snapping to grid when "snap to grid" is enabled?"