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06-01-2009, 02:31 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Arranger Track
Reaper really needs something like Cubase Arranger Track. Which lets you arrange parts in a non-liner fashion and quickly try out sections against each other. Invaluable tool for song writing. Shouldn't be too hard to do.
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11-25-2009, 08:22 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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VIDEO INCLUDED
Let me just elaborate a bit for those not familiar with Cubase Arranger Track.
Lets say you built this around the region feature which Reaper already have. And lets say you had region 1,2,3, (named: verse 1, chorus, verse 2). Now you wanted to hear what it would sound like to play verse 2 ONCE, the chorus TWICE, then verse 1 ONCE.
A picture tells a thousand words so I've included a link to a video of how this example works in cubase 3. Of course it wouldn't have to be exactly like that and I'm sure Cockos could do it even better with more features.
So basically it works like this. You drag the regions from one pane to the other in order to built your play order. When the orange button is on the project will playback using the play order track and when it's off it plays back normally. You can you can specify how many times you want a region to repeat. And you can save different play order list and choose them from the drop down menu.
http://hotfile.com/dl/27371287/e02c6...Order.avi.html
Last edited by Rec; 02-06-2010 at 12:39 AM.
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11-26-2009, 01:25 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Göteborg
Posts: 1,322
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im with that...+1
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11-26-2009, 01:55 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rec
Shouldn't be too hard to do.
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heh, what makes you so sure?
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11-26-2009, 02:12 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
heh, what makes you so sure?
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It's basically a playlist, Reaper can already loop between two points,
this script just needs to change the loop points while playing after
each "loop".
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11-26-2009, 02:23 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
heh, what makes you so sure?
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The fact that I don't have to do it
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11-26-2009, 02:38 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
It's basically a playlist, Reaper can already loop between two points,
this script just needs to change the loop points while playing after
each "loop".
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it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track? etc. that's just the tip of the iceberg, too. there are loads of design decisions required to make a feature this big work.
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11-26-2009, 02:55 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track? etc. that's just the tip of the iceberg, too. there are loads of design decisions required to make a feature this big work.
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I agree.
Of course there are number of things to perfect this, my point was only
that it's not that difficult to implement the ability to automatically jump
between regions in an order, especially for seasoned programmers.
Like every feature, it needs a foundation, and it can be as simple as
one marker pointing to another for jumps.
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11-26-2009, 05:17 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 36
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I'd really really want this! To be able to easily try of different version of a song structure AND be able to save the different versions - that would make me very happy!
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11-26-2009, 06:01 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
I agree.
Of course there are number of things to perfect this, my point was only
that it's not that difficult to implement the ability to automatically jump
between regions in an order, especially for seasoned programmers.
Like every feature, it needs a foundation, and it can be as simple as
one marker pointing to another for jumps.
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true, the regions are already there, it just needs a playlist system. I wouldn't be surprised if this appeared soon, there has been lots of talk about it.
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11-26-2009, 07:25 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track?
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In arrange mode in cubase 3 it will choose the first X and the first Y when you click over those items (respectively) in the time line. If you click over anything else it start from the beginning of the play order list.
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11-26-2009, 09:05 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: sum
Posts: 158
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totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.
in the meantime, if you +1 this too, don't forget to big it up here as well:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1343
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11-26-2009, 09:57 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatclub
totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.
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That would be the greatest extension to date I think if possible. I suspect this will have to be done in the core code.
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11-27-2009, 01:05 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatclub
totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.
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I actually asked SWS about this yesterday, and he said he couldn't do it without access to the audio engine. So we'll have to wait for cockos.
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03-01-2010, 10:32 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 322
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missed this.
would love to see it implemented.
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03-01-2010, 11:32 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saldiamond
missed this.
would love to see it implemented.
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Please vote here, these are all basically FRs for the same thing. http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1343
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03-02-2010, 02:39 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Play selected part against all others. Plus transpose selected part(s)
Hey, check out this cool new addition to the arranger track FR:
[IMG]http://img638.**************/img638/5900/playportionagainstother.jpg[/IMG]
Probably should be an option to exclude certain track numbers from being transposed e.g. drums.
Last edited by Rec; 03-02-2010 at 02:50 AM.
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03-02-2010, 02:48 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hungary
Posts: 3,129
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how would you tell Reaper what are dums/percussions (to not to transpose)?
both Audio and MIDI
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panda in the desert
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03-02-2010, 02:52 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatbybit
how would you tell Reaper what are dums/percussions (to not to transpose)?
both Audio and MIDI
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funny, was just writing that on the bottom.
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05-23-2010, 06:04 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,717
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+1
An arranger track would really be amazingly useful. Hope this gets implemented soon.
Think it is about the last Cubase has over Reaper atm..
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05-24-2010, 03:09 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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It could also work with multiple project tabs.
e.g. Project Tab 1 has the song parts into regions.
Project Tab 2 has the 'arranger' info, which triggers playback for tab 1 regions.
That should be easier to implement, as a mid-step before the full-fledged functionality.
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10-08-2010, 05:57 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,717
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11-27-2010, 03:14 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
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Agree. +1
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02-14-2011, 01:26 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 130
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Needed
+11111111111111111111111
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12-19-2011, 09:48 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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Has this feature still not been implemented in reaper?
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12-20-2011, 02:21 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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kurt - just the way I felt reading this.
Back when I did backing tracks on my Amiga 1200 the software I used back then (1991) was capable of doing this! FFS....
I really like Reaper and have found nothing else out there that works better for me, but sometimes.....
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12-20-2011, 04:45 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Posts: 560
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'REAPER Plus! The Power of SWS Extensions' (free download)
2.6 Smart Marker Actions
Later in this guide we'll be looking at the SWS Marker List Manager. Meanwhile, in this section you will be introduced to one very handy SWS marker management feature - the ability to create smart markers that can themselves be made to execute other commands and actions.
An example of this might be when you are auditioning a song. Perhaps there are two or three passages on which you wish to focus, comparing the mix at these different places. This might be, for example, to help you introduce subtle variations in the way a repeated chorus is mixed in two or three different places. The use of smart markers (or action markers) can help you to do this.
G. Francis
__________________
ReaLoaded!
Last edited by Reaperto; 12-20-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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12-20-2011, 07:44 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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But it should be a core part of the main reaper program, I mean - this is stuff I and many many others like me would be using routinely ALL the time,especially in MIDI arranging.
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12-20-2011, 07:57 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
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clarify?
Forgive me if I am slow, but could someone clarify this for me with an answer to this question.
How would a part-play-list work if I did NOT want each part to be EXACTLY the same every time?
It seems that this is a request limited to people who do simple looping where the SAME tracks, with the same envelopes, and the same arrangements between instruments, are ALWAYS the same and together. Right?
So if I wanted to play a VERSE (A) sometimes with a bass and sometimes with a piano behind it, (which is most of the time) this would be a proliferation of NEW PARTS, and each combination would require its own definition as region. Right?
In that case, if things are not templated much, it actually serves my purpose better to use the multiple track display where I can grab any media item (a complex bassline as opposed to simple) and place it together in the same vertical alignment as a verse with or without a vocal, with or without piano chords, etc.
I guess my question boils down to why the current version of the track view is not just FINE?
thnks
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My religion is all or none.
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12-20-2011, 03:42 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Buenos Aires - Argentina
Posts: 560
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This thread started on 06/01/2009.
REAPER Plus! was published in April 2010.
What I suggest is that among the possibilities of Smart Markers is to create a PlayList.
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ReaLoaded!
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12-20-2011, 07:49 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msore
It seems that this is a request limited to people who do simple looping where the SAME tracks, with the same envelopes, and the same arrangements between instruments, are ALWAYS the same and together. Right?
thnks
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Wrong. A lot of people use this feature for song writing. It is often just used in the beginning of a project to quickly try parts out against each other. Often things are rerecorded to add nuances to the sections. Play around with cubase's arranger track feature, you'll see what I mean. I purchased reaper but don't use it because of this missing feature. In the meantime I use cubase, but would switch if the feature was implemented, since I like a lot of other features in reaper.
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12-20-2011, 08:38 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,553
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I have also used the 'playlist' feature years ago when I used trackers for music.
On a simple level, you create the basic structure of your music by using a playlist for markers. When you're happy with the structure, you can 'flatten' the playlist so that the new structure is linear in the timeline. Then you can add automation, add new parts etc...
It's also easy to do remixes this way. Just make a new playlist and you got a different structure of the same song.
You can get pretty advanced with the playlist, if the developers are willing to go there.
Like:
- Allow to change the length of each pattern. So you can e.g. play from marker 2 all the way to marker 3, but on the second time, play only half-way and then switch to another marker.
- Use the playlist only on selected tracks, all others obey the linear timeline. Makes it very easy to repeat some parts, while recording and arranging others as usual.
- Allow live performance-mode control. Trigger markers via MIDI, latch mode on/off, repeat (pattern) on/off etc. And also record the performance (in a new playlist or in the timeline) to build up the track.
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01-24-2012, 11:49 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaperto
'REAPER Plus! The Power of SWS Extensions' (free download)
2.6 Smart Marker Actions
Later in this guide we'll be looking at the SWS Marker List Manager. Meanwhile, in this section you will be introduced to one very handy SWS marker management feature - the ability to create smart markers that can themselves be made to execute other commands and actions.
An example of this might be when you are auditioning a song. Perhaps there are two or three passages on which you wish to focus, comparing the mix at these different places. This might be, for example, to help you introduce subtle variations in the way a repeated chorus is mixed in two or three different places. The use of smart markers (or action markers) can help you to do this.
G. Francis
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Ok I've read that section. And I can get reaper to jump betwen different smart markers, but I fail to see how I can make an effective arranger track feature out of this. Could you please explain how I would go about that?
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01-25-2012, 12:03 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Posts: 459
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rm
It could be implemented in the region manager!
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01-25-2012, 07:50 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
It could be implemented in the region manager!
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Are you saying its currently possible, or that you would like to see it in the future?
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01-26-2012, 03:13 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 69
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and don't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails
In order to avoid a half baked solution one shouldn't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails:
For each track within a "playlisted" region you should be able to specify upbeat and reverb/delay/decay tail length (default 0).
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01-26-2012, 05:03 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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msore you dont have to copy everything with a true arrange window.
I use this in my current sequencer.
Record your intro your verse and your chorus and your bridge if any.
These are represented in the arranger as building blocks on a horizontal timeline.
You can then select and move the blocks, also copy and paste them anywhere in the arrangement.
Once you have the order of the various parts of the song set, you can then go back to the individual blocks and alter them to suit, as they are not linked.
at least that way if the drums are to stay the same you already have the correct part in the right place and can add and remove elements of the rest and record new alternate bits in place at the same time.
The only time this would not be useful is if you are writing music that has no repeating sections at all.
Please note: NOT looping.
Last edited by ivansc; 01-26-2012 at 05:04 AM.
Reason: bits was typed as its - confusing!
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01-26-2012, 08:51 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Rafael
Posts: 11,594
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thnks no thnks
Ivansc. Thanks for the clarification. I may be too far away from the looping mentality to see the benefits of this arranger view OVER what I already have in the Reaper TCP. hasta.
__________________
My religion is all or none.
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01-26-2012, 01:57 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: France
Posts: 459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt1111
Are you saying its currently possible, or that you would like to see it in the future?
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I would like
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01-29-2012, 08:06 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerold Slama
In order to avoid a half baked solution one shouldn't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails:
For each track within a "playlisted" region you should be able to specify upbeat and reverb/delay/decay tail length (default 0).
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Could you elaborate on this please?
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