Old 06-26-2017, 05:48 PM   #1
mb945
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Default FX Tail on Seeking (possible bug?)

Hello, I'm having an issue and I'm not sure if it's a problem with the plugins I'm using or with REAPER or with both.

Situation:
With certain plugins, the FX tail will continue after seeking to another area of the timeline (either by clicking the time ruler or during Rendering the Region Matrix, which uses seeking).

Problem: This includes the FX tail (reverb, guitar amp sim, drum trigger, etc) into the beginning of the next song (region) during export. I often have multiple songs in the same RPP separated by Regions and export them using the Region Matrix. The songs will often start with unintended reverb or other FX.

Solution: I'm not sure what exactly is causing this, but it is not happening with all plugins, only certain ones. For instance, it happens with Valhalla Shimmer but not Vintage Verb. Is there some bug within the plugin that needs to be fixed or can REAPER fix this on their end?
My suggested solution would be to include an option on the Preferences > Seeking page that says either:
"Flush FX on seek" OR "Run FX for [ 0 ]ms after seeking"

You can see an example project that demonstrated the problem here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2k0eo9cf4k...ail%20Test.zip

The plugins tested are:
Valhalla VintageVerb (NO - Does not continue tail)
Valhalla Shimmer (YES - Does continue tail)

Please test this out if you are able and let me know if you get the same results.
To test, enable one of the plugins indicated and then play the included tone, then click to somewhere else in the timeline and the reverb tail will continue.
I have included 2 rendered files that illustrate the problem. The reverb tail from Region 1 is included in the beginning of Region 2.

Thank you!!

PS:
If you don't have these plugins, you can easily try free demos here:
https://valhalladsp.com/shop/plugins/valhalla-shimmer/
https://valhalladsp.com/shop/plugins...-vintage-verb/

Last edited by mb945; 06-26-2017 at 10:06 PM. Reason: Changed example file.
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:04 PM   #2
mb945
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Here's an example of the problem.
This is the second region from the example and it has a burst and then the reverb tail in it. This should be totally silent.
https://clyp.it/nbxkay4w?token=8652e...76cc1d4edc5833
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:04 PM   #3
mb945
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Update: In order to make this simpler for anyone to help and test, I've minimized it to 2 plugins. Valhalla Shimmer and Vintage Verb. Shimmer has this problem and Vintage Verb does not. Thank you!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2k0eo9cf4k...ail%20Test.zip
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Old 06-27-2017, 03:32 AM   #4
nofish
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Have you tried setting "Preferences (-> Audio) -> Rendering -> Default tail length" to 0 ? (and also "Tail" in the render dialog for "Region render matrix".)

With these two settings I don't get the "tail leaking" with ReaDelay for example (didn't test with any other plugins yet though.)
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:42 AM   #5
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Tried that and no luck. Can you please try with my session that I posted with Valhalla Shimmer and see if it works for you?
Thanks!
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:15 PM   #6
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Can someone please help me out and test this real quick?
Let me know if you get similar results.
Thank you!
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:54 PM   #7
FnA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb945 View Post
Hello, I'm having an issue and I'm not sure if it's a problem with the plugins I'm using or with REAPER or with both.
Hi. This reminded me of some concerns/troubles I have had trying to set up preferences to get desired playback behavior. Maybe slightly different concerns than yours, but closely related, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mb945 View Post
Situation:
With certain plugins, the FX tail will continue after seeking to another area of the timeline (either by clicking the time ruler or during Rendering the Region Matrix, which uses seeking).

Problem: This includes the FX tail (reverb, guitar amp sim, drum trigger, etc) into the beginning of the next song (region) during export. I often have multiple songs in the same RPP separated by Regions and export them using the Region Matrix. The songs will often start with unintended reverb or other FX.

Solution: I'm not sure what exactly is causing this, but it is not happening with all plugins, only certain ones. For instance, it happens with Valhalla Shimmer but not Vintage Verb. Is there some bug within the plugin that needs to be fixed or can REAPER fix this on their end?
My suggested solution would be to include an option on the Preferences > Seeking page that says either:
"Flush FX on seek" OR "Run FX for [ 0 ]ms after seeking"


You can see an example project that demonstrated the problem here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2k0eo9cf4k...ail%20Test.zip

The plugins tested are:
Valhalla VintageVerb (NO - Does not continue tail)
Valhalla Shimmer (YES - Does continue tail)

Please test this out if you are able and let me know if you get the same results.
To test, enable one of the plugins indicated and then play the included tone, then click to somewhere else in the timeline and the reverb tail will continue.
Not quite the same results. Every tail from every reverb seems to continue when seeking with the mouse. A preference like you suggested in [green] quotation might be useful.

I DO see a difference in the behavior of the two Valhalla plugins however. It has to do with their behavior concerning STOP and PAUSE(and restarting playback after PAUSE.) It seems that those two fit into two different "categories" (this is not a very scientific research project on my part) into which several other reverbs also can be placed. Not an exhaustive list, just a few examples.

A.)
Valhalla Shimmer (and Sanford Reverb and TAL Reverb 4)
-Tail continues after STOP
-Tail quits on PAUSE, but (and this sucks)...
--Tail restarts when PLAY is pressed afterwards. It appears to be stored indefinitely. *see note 1

B.)
Valhalla Vintage (and Valhalla Room, ReaVerb, OldSkoolVerb, Ambience[**note 2])
-Tail quits immediately on STOP and PAUSE
--Tail does not restart when pressing PLAY after PAUSE

These are my preferences:


*1 Bypass/Unbypass seems quite similar. Storing the tail.

**2 Bonus/offtopic. Why does making a parameter change to this Ambience plugin make an instant and permanent change to whatever preset is loaded? I think I've seen a few other free plugs exhibit this annoying behavior.

Last edited by FnA; 07-02-2017 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 07-02-2017, 07:59 PM   #8
mb945
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Thanks so much for trying this out FnA!
I wonder what exactly causes this so that I can report it to the plugin devs to hopefully get them to fix it on their end since Cockos doesn't seem interested in taking care of it on theirs.

(I think the VintageVerb version is newer than Shimmer and is probably programmed slightly differently, so I wonder what setting exactly behind the scenes controls this and could be changes. The VinatgeVerb way is definitely preferable.)
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Old 07-02-2017, 08:12 PM   #9
FnA
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Shimmer looks interesting, but I cant stand this restarting behavior and definitely won't buy it unless I can get past it. Room has a fairly new version too I guess.

Basically I want to play my instruments through the FX when stopped, but be able to quickly change positions when playing things back without having to wait for everything to fade first. Maybe I missed a setting or...
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