Old 09-22-2014, 05:33 AM   #1
buro
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Default area selection!!!

just wanted to make sure, that this is not forgotten:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=122
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:52 AM   #2
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It's in Elevated FRs, it's not forgotten. At least hopefully.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:15 AM   #3
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My guess is this is at the top of the list of things to do, maybe for v5, hopefully alongside many of the other elevated FRs.
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Old 05-21-2017, 06:45 AM   #4
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It's in Elevated FRs, it's not forgotten. At least hopefully.
hello! any news about this?
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:53 AM   #5
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As Automation Items bring people to Reaper, they will be horrified that this is not available.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:40 AM   #6
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well... most of the features described in the FR are actually available through latest mouse modifiers and actions.

Multiple selection still not possible though, that is the single valuable point, but I imagin quite complex to implement and grant backward compatibility with all selection based functions/actions...

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Old 05-23-2017, 06:40 AM   #7
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There are still things you can't do.

Here's an example:

1 track of audio, one track with a reverb.

The track with the audio sends to the reverb. The volume and the volume send level on the track with the audio, the reverb(all parameters) and the volume on the reverb track are automated.

Now I have to recut the session, because changes have to happen. We do this a LOT in post production.

How does the automation stay intact on the reverb track ? There are no items there after all.

Yes, you could use empty items on the reverb track, covering the whole project with them. The automation on the track would travel with those empty items.

What about automation inbetween audio items ? Big changes can happen there, changes that may be audible if audio were to be played as they happen.

When you move audio items, you get automation points at the edges. Thus we could get major artifacts at those edges, because some plugins do require changes be set a little ahead of audio coming in.

"But Airon! Just use Ripple Editing" I hear you say.

Bollocks.

If you're lucky enough to cut ALL tracks at once, good for you. That never happens for me, and never HAS happened.

No.1 requested feature "Area Selection". We get to move shit that we can't see as well. That's the idea behind that. Empty space, automation on the tracks. It all travels, copies and pastes. But not here, not yet.

No.2 requested feature "Edit groups", which requires area selection. Now you'd get to do area selections to multiple tracks by only selecting on one. How easy is that with 200 tracks ? You know, I never knew how easy until I no longer had the shit.


The result is I am mortally afraid of having to reconform anything in Reaper. Vordio can do it, but not for anything that doesn't spit out compatible XML of the changes. WHen I do have to do it, I dispense empty items like band-aids all round the edited area. This is one of the major weaknesses still left in Reaper for me.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:33 AM   #8
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I confess I don't use this workflow as I just mix and master songs, but having used other DAWS I don't recall such functionalities, which one is able to do all what you are requesting?

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Old 05-25-2017, 01:18 AM   #9
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I confess I don't use this workflow as I just mix and master songs, but having used other DAWS I don't recall such functionalities, which one is able to do all what you are requesting?

g
Protools. That's one of the rare instances in which Protools gets the job done more easily. It lets you copy just automation from an area you've selected. Or it moves/copies everything. The edit groups are quite useful here for matching a session to a new cut. All the automation data is cut right along with the items.

Ripple edit of selected tracks would work fine here, if Reaper took the automation right along with it.

In all honesty, I hope it's just me making a mistake in Reaper, but right now it's looking like Reaper is simply missing this type of functionality at this time.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:32 AM   #10
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Protools. That's one of the rare instances in which Protools gets the job done more easily. It lets you copy just automation from an area you've selected. Or it moves/copies everything. The edit groups are quite useful here for matching a session to a new cut. All the automation data is cut right along with the items.

Ripple edit of selected tracks would work fine here, if Reaper took the automation right along with it.

In all honesty, I hope it's just me making a mistake in Reaper, but right now it's looking like Reaper is simply missing this type of functionality at this time.
I am very wondering if maybe the functionality of just selecting ALL things that fall into a made time selection (items, parts of items, envelope points/segments of visible envelopes) is scriptable.
So a Script, that, ones executed, just does that.
I think when this would be possible/available , the rest of following actions on that selection, like, moving, deleting, copying, etc, is already possible and worklows in that can be further optimized, like executing an action, after executing the "select all within timeselection" script, that will just move (or copy) the whole selection to mouse pointer or edit cursor.
These kind of workflows will then outperform any other DAW for sure, that has a decent time selection / range tool, like Protools and Cubase.

It's really, only, solely, the Big Miss in Reaper, of the "select ALL (and i mean ALL) within Time selection functionality.
If that would be available in Reaper, a whole new world will open for many i think.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:00 PM   #11
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I confess I don't use this workflow as I just mix and master songs, but having used other DAWS I don't recall such functionalities, which one is able to do all what you are requesting?

g
Cubase does (not the multi selection of ranges tho) , it's called range tool and is tremendously useful! for automation and items too. Makes life much easier to edit and copy /move /duplicate arrange small elements, without being concerned about their timing (which is an headache)

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Old 05-28-2017, 10:36 PM   #12
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I just spent an hour simply duplicating a small area of a project. Had to do this on an almost Per-Item basis, to ensure that problems didn't creep up, and that's not including the automation-only tracks which require their own encyclopaedia of tricks to duplicate.

Sorry like...I adore Reaper in probably every single other way, but this would have taken literally 1 second in Ableton. A full hour I kid you not!
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Old 05-29-2017, 08:18 AM   #13
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I just spent an hour simply duplicating a small area of a project. Had to do this on an almost Per-Item basis, to ensure that problems didn't creep up, and that's not including the automation-only tracks which require their own encyclopaedia of tricks to duplicate.

Sorry like...I adore Reaper in probably every single other way, but this would have taken literally 1 second in Ableton. A full hour I kid you not!
I agree with you! it's a nightmare on this subject being such a dream in almost every other
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:44 PM   #14
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The current methods are inherently Item-based instead of Area-based, and that's what leads to all the problems.

The one way Reaper is not item-based however is with REGIONS. Region Selection is basically a half-implemented Area Selection tool -- horizontal only. The region principle in the vertical direction as well would give us proper Area Selection. Surely the Region code can be leveraged to get us Area Selection/Duplication?
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:58 PM   #15
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And as said in this thread for about a thousand times:
No possibility to also select ALL visible envelope segments in an area selection.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:01 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Surely the Region code can be leveraged to get us Area Selection/Duplication?
Duplication isn't even necessary, only selection.
Cause there are tons of Actions in Action list already, related to a selection, including duplication.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:21 AM   #17
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yes. Region is very similar to what is asked (single selection tho, which would be already very nice) it just needs to focus on y axis too, and not select all track events.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:02 AM   #18
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If implemented it'll look easy to us, but it's quite a lot of work to do.

Everything in a selected area would need to be treated as if an item is on top of it. All the automation, visible or not, the empty space, the items.

The actions we have would have to dig deeper so to speak. Updating the actions would likely take a long time.

Maybe that's why they're so quiet :P .
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:35 AM   #19
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Maybe that's why they're so quiet :P .
Ehehehe, let's Pray for that.
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Old 05-30-2017, 01:26 PM   #20
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If implemented it'll look easy to us, but it's quite a lot of work to do.

Everything in a selected area would need to be treated as if an item is on top of it. All the automation, visible or not, the empty space, the items.

The actions we have would have to dig deeper so to speak. Updating the actions would likely take a long time.

Maybe that's why they're so quiet :P .
But I think this is what actually makes it easier than all the current copy/paste madness! It only need to draw one set of edgepoints instead of endless, it doesn't need to evaluate the items at all actually - just duplicate them as a SECTION.

If the Reaper file format is XML-like, it would be "as easy as" (yes extreme oversimplification lol...) duplicating the structure for that tracks in that area, but shifted in time. This is what Region duplication already does (it doesn't touch the items individually, but treats the whole section as a thing)...except you don't have a choice vertically on what gets duplicated.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:32 AM   #21
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i am convinced most users don't understand the advantages of this.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:11 AM   #22
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deeb we all feel that way about our pet FRs, mate - dont let it gt you down.

At least the devs have already shown SOME interest in "your" FR.

My biggie was hybrid stave, which sorta got blown out of the water by them adding notation.

In the meantime I just learned to live with it.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:25 AM   #23
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i am convinced most users don't understand the advantages of this.
Before the issue tracker was deprecated this was the most voted for feature request by a pretty wide margin. I think it's safe to say that a great many users understand the advantages and want this to happen.
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Old 06-01-2017, 08:17 AM   #24
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deeb we all feel that way about our pet FRs, mate - dont let it gt you down.

At least the devs have already shown SOME interest in "your" FR.

My biggie was hybrid stave, which sorta got blown out of the water by them adding notation.

In the meantime I just learned to live with it.
i am pretty much in love by almost everything from reaper but the copy / duplicate thing drives me a bit off. I can live with it, but take 1 hour to do something that should be done in a minute. Cheers



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Before the issue tracker was deprecated this was the most voted for feature request by a pretty wide margin. I think it's safe to say that a great many users understand the advantages and want this to happen.
nice to know that and really hope i am wrong ! was there ever a positive feedback about this from the developers?
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:00 AM   #25
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My big concern is that with Automation Items coming, people are going to start doing crazy fun amazing new stuff and then be met with these quirky roadblocks and rage-quit.

Imagine (fake scenario) if Notepad was your text-editor, and suddenly Microsoft introduced WordPad with its fonts, bold, italics, etc. Exciting! Only problem - you can only reliably copy/paste sentences and not paragraphs. Hrm. If you try to paste paragraphs, you'll lose formatting and sometimes even whole words will disappear! Those features are nice, but I'll just stick with Notepad.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:24 AM   #26
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But I think this is what actually makes it easier than all the current copy/paste madness! It only need to draw one set of edgepoints instead of endless, it doesn't need to evaluate the items at all actually - just duplicate them as a SECTION.

If the Reaper file format is XML-like, it would be "as easy as" (yes extreme oversimplification lol...) duplicating the structure for that tracks in that area, but shifted in time. This is what Region duplication already does (it doesn't touch the items individually, but treats the whole section as a thing)...except you don't have a choice vertically on what gets duplicated.
That's a good point. Frame as something that already exists.

Region-like copy/paste/move for hand-marqueed areas.
It has to include hidden envelopes.
Clearly mark selection edges across time and tracks.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:02 PM   #27
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My big concern is that with Automation Items coming, people are going to start doing crazy fun amazing new stuff and then be met with these quirky roadblocks and rage-quit.

Imagine (fake scenario) if Notepad was your text-editor, and suddenly Microsoft introduced WordPad with its fonts, bold, italics, etc. Exciting! Only problem - you can only reliably copy/paste sentences and not paragraphs. Hrm. If you try to paste paragraphs, you'll lose formatting and sometimes even whole words will disappear! Those features are nice, but I'll just stick with Notepad.
I have hope that automátion clips Will be released and this will be next.I d live Well without Them tho, but not without This one
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:30 AM   #28
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bump! Not having this is so annoying!
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:41 AM   #29
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Default Area Selection Showcase!

ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.

...now throw Automation Items into this mess.

This is just the tiniest example of just how flawed the current duplication is in Reaper Again, Reaper destroys Ableton in a million other ways, but this is Such core functionality that is going to drive the new crop away immediately.

I just want Reaper to be the best it can be!!! This would get it 99% of the way there.
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:14 PM   #30
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I agree, this is imo The weakest Point of reaper. This not something that is needed ocasionally. I need this all The time. And apperently is just a "polítical" decision
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Old 06-19-2017, 02:23 PM   #31
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I agree, this is imo The weakest Point of reaper. This not something that is needed ocasionally. I need this all The time. And apperently is just a "polítical" decision
I'm glad you agree man. Hahah what are the politics? Comparing the two clips above, there's no politics - just obvious facts that one is better than the other.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:21 PM   #32
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I'm glad you agree man. Hahah what are the politics? Comparing the two clips above, there's no politics - just obvious facts that one is better than the other.
yehh as in the world, somethings could be obviously better but lacks of political decision. anyway ! when i get annoyed i say abstract things too. :P by the way , seems like the [img] from reaper is not working on the example you gave.
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Old 06-19-2017, 04:33 PM   #33
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Hahah what are the politics?
There are none. It's basically all of us who have zero clue what it takes for the devs to do X, Y or Z. We all tout our pet wants as the most sane and important thing eva having very little to do with the big picture none of us can possibly see because we don't work for cockos.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:07 PM   #34
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There are none. It's basically all of us who have zero clue what it takes for the devs to do X, Y or Z. We all tout our pet wants as the most sane and important thing eva having very little to do with the big picture none of us can possibly see because we don't work for cockos.
this is a request for duplicating data it's not a super hyper never seen feature request
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:17 PM   #35
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this is a request for duplicating data it's not a super hyper never seen feature request
See what I mean. It is NOT "just duplicating data", that's just a GUI representation of the result, not the underlying code/work. Neither you nor I have any idea what lives below the surface, we just don't, that's the point. It's a fine feature and I expect it will show up sometime but our grandstanding that it should be simple because it looks simple, doesn't make it simpler or harder, it's just our grandstanding the things we personally want the most.

I want zooming in to always display 0:00 at the 0:00 mark, I'm just 'sure' that's 'easier' than your request, why can't I have it first?
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:25 PM   #36
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See what I mean. It is NOT "just duplicating data", that's just a GUI representation of the result, not the underlying work. Neither you nor I have any idea what lives below the surface, we just don't, that's the point. It's a fine feature and I expect it will show up sometime but our grandstanding that it should be simple because it looks simple, doesn't make it simpler or harder, it's just our grandstanding the things we personally want the most.
I hear you (as someone with a CompSci degree)! So my appeal is based on code reuse -- ie, Area Duplication is essentially just "Selective" Region Duplication. If you could pick which tracks get duplicated when doing Region Duplication, you'd have Area Duplication. It's the addition of a vertical component to Region Selection, and without having a single clue what the code looks like, I can guarantee this isn't a huge task seeing that it's a refinement of an already existing feature.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:31 PM   #37
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I hear you (as someone with a CompSci degree)! So my appeal is based on code reuse -- ie, Area Duplication is essentially just "Selective" Region Duplication. If you could pick which tracks get duplicated when doing Region Duplication, you'd have Area Duplication. It's the addition of a vertical component to Region Selection, and without having a single clue what the code looks like, I can guarantee this isn't a huge task seeing that it's a refinement of an already existing feature.
I'm rootin' for you guys, but I have enough enterprise dev background that as much as I want to root, I also know the pain of regression and how damn crappy what appears to be easy can sometimes be once the ball is rolling and the product is in the wild. It will proverbially bite you every time, so there really are no guarantees that can be made unless you have Reaper's source code in your hands. That doesn't guarantee it is hard either but I've had enough 100 million line smoke jobs surprise me to call it either way. It might truly be damn easy but none of us can reliably state that with any authority from the outside, period.

I'm seriously not dissing the want for the feature though, just saying the devs are the only ones who know for sure.
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Old 06-19-2017, 06:16 PM   #38
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I hear you too and also as someone with a CompSci degree. I don't like on my work when people tell "it just" when they don't have a clue what's going on too. So just in case i might be miss understood, i have much respect for heads down there, and i wouldn't consider easy anything in Audio development at all, this guys are on the front top notch position for what they do and how good they do in probably one of the most complex type of software on earth, and there should be a nobel prime for them . But for me, as normal user , it's just duplicating bit's of envelopes data, has it's for notes , or tracks or items and i see this almost like a standard which i got used many years now: Cubase has, Live has which are the only daws i used in the last years and can remember. Reaper has been a huge surprise since i started using it, but this ofuscates all the rest because for me this is a standard workflow for audio production and i can't believe how all reaper users been ok without this for so many years
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:27 PM   #39
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I get you, nice to see you guys intelligently thinking it through.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:31 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
I hear you too and also as someone with a CompSci degree. I don't like on my work when people tell "it just" when they don't have a clue what's going on too. So just in case i might be miss understood, i have much respect for heads down there, and i wouldn't consider easy anything in Audio development at all, this guys are on the front top notch position for what they do and how good they do in probably one of the most complex type of software on earth, and there should be a nobel prime for them . But for me, as normal user , it's just duplicating bit's of envelopes data, has it's for notes , or tracks or items and i see this almost like a standard which i got used many years now: Cubase has, Live has which are the only daws i used in the last years and can remember. Reaper has been a huge surprise since i started using it, but this ofuscates all the rest because for me this is a standard workflow for audio production and i can't believe how all reaper users been ok without this for so many years
I totally hear ya and agree.
The odd area selection > copy > paste behaviour makes totally no sense to me.
Can't believe this behaviour is by Cockos design.
For me it's just a huge bug thats has never been thoroughly picked up.
It's not a 100% dealbreaker for me, but, for my workflow, it is extremely annoying.
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