Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > Recording Technologies and Techniques

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2012, 06:41 PM   #1
pcmusicpro
Human being with feelings
 
pcmusicpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cali, Colombia.
Posts: 630
Default Guess which mix was summed with analog gear!

Hi all

I'm doing a test on analog summing or out the box summing. In the link below you will find 2 stereo audio files at 48KHz x 24bits. One was summed in the box using ProTools 9 Bounce feature and the other was summed from 8 stereo stems using Linx Aurora + a boutique All Discrete analog summing device by a reputated Colombian electronic developer and designer named Camilo Silva, then back to the Aurora converter and to ProTools.

The main purpose of this test is to encourage you to comment your impressions about both ITB summing and OTB summing. Which mix or stem do you think is the analog summed one, is it Stem A or Stem B?

Which one do you think sounds nicer and why.

Here's the download link: http://wtrns.fr/Pw2opUFr19T5g-D

Thanks.
pcmusicpro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 07:39 PM   #2
jacobestes
Human being with feelings
 
jacobestes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 415
Default

I couldn't hear any difference, so I threw them in Reaper to see if they null, and they don't. So then I compared sections and I still can't hear any difference.

Maybe someone out there can hear it and appreciate it, but I couldn't even tell them apart, let alone pretend to guess which was summed how.

Interested to hear some impressions from others though. We need more stuff like this. I'm tired of hearing Old Wives' Tales of magic recording practices.
jacobestes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 02:16 AM   #3
bls
Human being with feelings
 
bls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tx
Posts: 707
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacobestes View Post
I couldn't hear any difference, so I threw them in Reaper to see if they null, and they don't. So then I compared sections and I still can't hear any difference.

Maybe someone out there can hear it and appreciate it, but I couldn't even tell them apart, let alone pretend to guess which was summed how.

Interested to hear some impressions from others though. We need more stuff like this. I'm tired of hearing Old Wives' Tales of magic recording practices.
At first I thought you wrote "old Waves tales" and I thought it was brilliant.
bls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:26 AM   #4
pcmusicpro
Human being with feelings
 
pcmusicpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cali, Colombia.
Posts: 630
Default

I want to warn you that the mixes provided are NOT complex mixes, as you can deduce from hearing. The idea was to do the test with a rough mix with as few processes as possible to see if in those circumstances one can perceive any difference. I can hear a subtle low end enhance in the analog summed stem but no more. No depth or spacialyzation was noticed.

Comme on guys give it a try and let me know your impressions.

Next time I´ll upload a more complex mix, or even provide you the stems so in case you have an analog summing device you can show us your results for us to test.

Ed.
pcmusicpro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:49 AM   #5
plush2
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,110
Default

Fascinating. I used the ABCX js plugin to do a truly blind test. I think it's the only valid test for answering questions like this. I also thought I could hear a warmer low end and a little more mids in what I assumed was the analog summed mix and this was confirmed by my score jumping up to 66.6666 % and then 100% but after 10 tries I was back down closer to 0% chance of me accurately telling the difference.

I then matched the gains as closely as I could to see what kind of cancellation I could get. The bass does jump out at the delivered file volume level but not so much if one plays with the volume (getting better cancellation). It also seems the vocal drifts to one side (possibly the entire summed center) in, again what I assume is the analog summed mix.

As an aside, someone on gearslutz posted ABX test files of a whole range of analog summed mixes through various boutique and budget boxes for comparison. My conclusion at the end of that test was that if the summing box was doing a good job (not making things noticeably worse) I could not reliably tell the difference. To me it's a net-zero proposition. If I can't tell the difference reliably then what am I benefiting. If I can tell the difference then I'm using the summing as an effect. As a workflow it seems like a random and unpredictable way to achieve an often undefinable result.

just my 2 nickels I guess. (Canada is getting rid of pennies)

Last edited by plush2; 05-02-2012 at 09:46 AM.
plush2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 05:04 PM   #6
run, megalodon
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by plush2 View Post
Fascinating. I used the ABCX js plugin to do a truly blind test.
Where can I get this? I can't find it in reaper, the stash, or with google.
run, megalodon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 08:57 AM   #7
Nandhu Kartha
Human being with feelings
 
Nandhu Kartha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kochi,India
Posts: 311
Default

I'm not fit for a guess. But I liked Stem A. It is more warm,smooth and gives more feel to me.
__________________
-Nandhu Kartha
Lives only for music and love !!
Nandhu Kartha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2012, 09:10 AM   #8
Serenitynow
Human being with feelings
 
Serenitynow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 603
Default

I love tests like these. I liked Stem B better. Stem A seemed more strident to me. So I guess that Stem B is Analog OTB gear.

This is a win win situation for me; Either I have a great ear (and champagne tastes on a beer budget!) Or if I'm wrong and like the sound of ITB better then that's great...because that's all I do is ITB!
__________________
John
Serenitynow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 08:04 PM   #9
Nandhu Kartha
Human being with feelings
 
Nandhu Kartha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kochi,India
Posts: 311
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmusicpro View Post
..........The main purpose of this test is to encourage you to comment your impressions about both ITB summing and OTB summing. Which mix or stem do you think is the analog summed one, is it Stem A or Stem B?

Which one do you think sounds nicer and why............

He might have posted it with so much passion and enthusiasm...!
__________________
-Nandhu Kartha
Lives only for music and love !!
Nandhu Kartha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:38 PM   #10
plush2
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
Posts: 2,110
Default

My bad...it was the ABCDX plugin from later on in the thread timlloyd linked to. It might explain why your initial google yielded no useful results.

I have no comment on the irony of the situation. For the record I still think the original posted audio is interesting and worth considering. Please add your actual comments on the audio along with your commentary on the comments on the audio.
plush2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.