Clipping issues

[Nihilist88]

Hi all,

New here, but I am hoping to get a lot of experience and assist people in their issues as well. Anyways I have a clipping issue. I have a Presonius USB Audio box interface. The input is at 0 and it still clips in Reaper. I am using ASIO4ALL as my sound mapper.

And another question: When I record I do it in sections. How can I get that 1 second to of pause to stop? It kills the flow of the song. I put the line right on the second before the new measure/riff would begin. Thanks for the help!

[sveinpetter]

Go for -18 to max -6

[Nystagmus]

1) Make sure the audio engine settings are for 32-bit float for both recording and glueing.

2) Make sure that your VST instruments and effects are turned down low enough. Usually it's not a problem with effects, but some instruments add their own effects and EQ and can cause clipping.

3) Occasionally check the track input levels. This fader isn't normally shown. You have to make it visible from the automation settings. Sometimes bringing this down will prevent track VST's from clipping.

4) Don't use very old VST effects or DirectX effects. DirectX effects can't do delay compensation. Also some older effects don't properly implement 32-bit float pathways and thus can clip.

5) Disable effects on the master fader during overdubbing to reduce the lag time. Enable the effects after overdubbing and during mixing and rendering.

6) When working with 8 or more tracks, every track fader should be brought down very low to allow enough amplitude headroom to mix them together. Think of it this way:

1 track = 100% max
2 tracks = each at 50% max
3 tracks = each at 25% max
4 tracks = each at 12.5% max
5 tracks = each at 6.25% max

That's how you would initially adjust all of the faders to be 100% sure that there was no clipping when adding tracks (without any effects).

In reality, using compression and limiting and transient shapers on individual tracks as well as at the main stereo mix bus can allow you to use EQ and effects boosts without clipping and also to bring up some track levels a little bit.

Aim for about -14 dB RMS Average on your master bus and everything should be OK. You can use the freeware VST effect RMS Buddy to measure this on your master fader.

On your audio interface, make sure that you aren't adding mic or guitar gain to line level signals. Also, make sure that you are not overloading it from whatever gear you plugged into it. Check your amplitude levels from the absolute beginning to the absolute ending. Use line outputs and line inputs whenever possible and not headphones outputs or anything else. And if you are using guitar amps or heads or anything like that, know that you are in dangerous territory of overloading your gear.

[avocadomix]

What do you mean by "the input is at 0"? What signal are you recording? What is your signal chain? Where are you measuring the input signal amplitude? What exactly does it read? Where are you observing the clipping?

You need to be more specific in order to get useful replies.

BTW it is nearly always better to use manufacturer's ASIO driver when it is available than the asio4all driver.

[Nihilist88]

Originally Posted by avocadomix

What do you mean by "the input is at 0"? What signal are you recording? What is your signal chain? Where are you measuring the input signal amplitude? What exactly does it read? Where are you observing the clipping?

You need to be more specific in order to get useful replies.

BTW it is nearly always better to use manufacturer's ASIO driver when it is available than the asio4all driver.

My signal chain is literally Ibanez RG to the interface. I have it turned all the way down and it still clips. It is a Presonus USB audio box.

Originally Posted by Nystagmus

1) Make sure the audio engine settings are for 32-bit float for both recording and glueing.

2) Make sure that your VST instruments and effects are turned down low enough. Usually it's not a problem with effects, but some instruments add their own effects and EQ and can cause clipping.

3) Occasionally check the track input levels. This fader isn't normally shown. You have to make it visible from the automation settings. Sometimes bringing this down will prevent track VST's from clipping.

4) Don't use very old VST effects or DirectX effects. DirectX effects can't do delay compensation. Also some older effects don't properly implement 32-bit float pathways and thus can clip.

5) Disable effects on the master fader during overdubbing to reduce the lag time. Enable the effects after overdubbing and during mixing and rendering.

6) When working with 8 or more tracks, every track fader should be brought down very low to allow enough amplitude headroom to mix them together. Think of it this way:

1 track = 100% max
2 tracks = each at 50% max
3 tracks = each at 25% max
4 tracks = each at 12.5% max
5 tracks = each at 6.25% max

That's how you would initially adjust all of the faders to be 100% sure that there was no clipping when adding tracks (without any effects).

In reality, using compression and limiting and transient shapers on individual tracks as well as at the main stereo mix bus can allow you to use EQ and effects boosts without clipping and also to bring up some track levels a little bit.

Aim for about -14 dB RMS Average on your master bus and everything should be OK. You can use the freeware VST effect RMS Buddy to measure this on your master fader.

On your audio interface, make sure that you aren't adding mic or guitar gain to line level signals. Also, make sure that you are not overloading it from whatever gear you plugged into it. Check your amplitude levels from the absolute beginning to the absolute ending. Use line outputs and line inputs whenever possible and not headphones outputs or anything else. And if you are using guitar amps or heads or anything like that, know that you are in dangerous territory of overloading your gear.

I'm not using VSTs, I am sending my tracks with nothing and sending them to my drummer who applies everything. I was originally using my 6505+ head's preamp signal out and sending to the interface. That sounded like garbage so I stopped.

Anything else, please let me know. This issue is driving me nuts.

[avocadomix]

Originally Posted by Nihilist88

My signal chain is literally Ibanez RG to the interface. I have it turned all the way down and it still clips. It is a Presonus USB audio box.

It can "clip" in several different places. You can turn down a few things. Please be specific. We might be able to help you better if you do the following:
1) uninstall asio4all
2) download and install presonus official driver and software for your device:
http://www.presonus.com/support/downloads/AudioBox-USB

3) choose the official presonus ASIO driver in Reaper device settings
4) test again
5) answer all the questions in my previous post.
6) take screenshots of your Reaper mixer and Presonus software mixer
7) ideally, post a short recorded sample

By signal chain I mean every station you signal goes through, be it hardware or software. For example, I'd like to know what cable you are using with your guitar (unbalanced PL?), what input you connect the cable to (ideally input type and input number as specified in the manual for your interface), what is your gain staging everywhere, what plugins you have in your project if any.

[Nihilist88]

Originally Posted by avocadomix

It can "clip" in several different places. You can turn down a few things. Please be specific. We might be able to help you better if you do the following:
1) uninstall asio4all
2) download and install presonus official driver and software for your device:
http://www.presonus.com/support/downloads/AudioBox-USB

3) choose the official presonus ASIO driver in Reaper device settings
4) test again
5) answer all the questions in my previous post.
6) take screenshots of your Reaper mixer and Presonus software mixer
7) ideally, post a short recorded sample

By signal chain I mean every station you signal goes through, be it hardware or software. For example, I'd like to know what cable you are using with your guitar (unbalanced PL?), what input you connect the cable to (ideally input type and input number as specified in the manual for your interface), what is your gain staging everywhere, what plugins you have in your project if any.

Thank you so much for the help! I will be more than happy to post a sample. I have been busy. That's why there has been a delay in my responses. My signal chain is RG7>a guitar cable that might be causing an issue because of it's age>interface>Reaper and that is it. I will post a screen shot when I record something this weekend. I will also make an MP3 or WAV of the test sound. I don't use any VSTs as the effects get injected later.

I also use input 1 I am still playing with it. I will send you a PM, you have a lot of knowledge and I want to learn from you!!

[Nihilist88]

Here is an upload of the DAW this is everything I am running.

[Nihilist88]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0BXUP3dBQaT

[zappsunzorn]

It seems it might be an issue with your interface

http://forumsarchive.presonus.com/posts/list/37853.page

I would suggest going from guitar into DI then into the interface using an XLR at mic level.

[avocadomix]

What cable type is this? XLR or PL? If PL then is this TRS or TS?
I'm trying to figure out whether your guitar outputs at instrument-level or at line-level.

If you don't know what XLR, TRS and TS look like, please google and get back with the answer.

Also a complimentary question, does this guitar have active pickups? Do you need to power it in some way?
Can you name the exact model of this guitar? It seems like there are several models of RG7.

[Neenja]

Originally Posted by avocadomix

What cable type is this? XLR or PL? If PL then is this TRS or TS?
I'm trying to figure out whether your guitar outputs at instrument-level or at line-level.

If you don't know what XLR, TRS and TS look like, please google and get back with the answer.

Also a complimentary question, does this guitar have active pickups? Do you need to power it in some way?
Can you name the exact model of this guitar? It seems like there are several models of RG7.

Guitars send instrument level signals or they wouldn't work with all of the guitar gear that people use. Actives can be hot, but they still have to be compatible with the 50 years of gear out there.

[ivansc]

Some instrument levels are hotter than other, especially on active instruments. I have to be very careful what I do with my active bass, signal level wise.

Sounds like you have a combination of issues there, not the least being clipping that sounds like you ARE over-cooking your interface input. Using a D.I. into the interface is a valid suggestion in that it will take your signal level down whilst preserving the tone of the instrument.

Just for grins, what sort of levels are you showing in reapers metering on the guitar track?

[avocadomix]

Originally Posted by Neenja

Guitars send instrument level signals or they wouldn't work with all of the guitar gear that people use. Actives can be hot, but they still have to be compatible with the 50 years of gear out there.

You are right, there are no XLR and TRS then.

So the question boils down to pickups - active or passive.
If they are passive then something is wrong - the interface or the gain staging.
If they are active then perhaps the interface simply doesn't have enough headroom and that may be by design.

[ivansc]

Again, a DI with a pad would sort this out for very little money

[avocadomix]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Again, a DI with a pad would sort this out for very little money

Chances are that this is correct. Except for the little money part. A decent DI is not that cheap. But anyway it will probably put out a better quality signal than the built-in DI in the interface.

@OP: AFAIK if you have active pickups then you need a passive DI and vice versa.