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Old 06-09-2015, 08:18 PM   #1
gsagostinho
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Default Support for .midi extension (DONE)

Currently REAPER only supports .mid extension but not .midi (even though the latter is also fairly common). Simply renaming a file extension from .midi to .mid solves the problem, but it's quite annoying to be obliged to do so (e.g. I mainly use LilyPond to create my scores and this program produces .midi files; every time I want to listen to the output of a score I am typing I need to rename the file. While composing, I must do this hundreds of time for a single score!).

Would it be too much trouble to add recognition of .midi files, thus solving this issue?

Thanks,
Gilberto
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:44 PM   #2
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http://www.online-tech-tips.com/comp...ile-extension/

and welcome to the forums!
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Old 06-09-2015, 10:03 PM   #3
gsagostinho
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> http://www.online-tech-tips.com/comp...ile-extension/
> and welcome to the forums!

Thanks

The thing is I know how to batch process files and it doesn't help on my particular case. My point is that there are certain workflows (such as the one I described) which require new midi file to be generated every time one needs it. In my example, LilyPond generates an individual .midi file at each execution, and if I am composing and wants to check how the current score sounds, I need to manually rename the .midi every time I want to hear it.

There are tons of ways of handling this, one of which is this manual renaming I usually do. Other users will certainly benefit from batch processing. But my post was not a question on how to do something but rather a feature request, as it surely should be quite simply to accept .midi as well as .mid. This would make REAPER easier to use and more friendly to the average user which may combine it with any of the bazillion other MIDI programs that exist out there.

Cheers!
Gilberto
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:20 AM   #4
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Default Midi extension

Totally agree with op, last thing we need is another workaround.
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:53 AM   #5
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On the other hand why the hell did anyone ever decide it would be a good idea to add an "i" to the end of a perfectly serviceable file extension?
Particularly since a four letter file extension in itself is totally non-standard and in this case unnecessary

There are just enough people out there insisting on doing this to make it a pain in the ass, so I do agree with the OP that a workable solution would be convenient, but
I would also be talking to the producers of lilypad and asking them WHY?
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:20 PM   #6
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Must be Linux fashion...

Gilberto, you can create a batch file (you are on Windows, right?) and associate it with the .midi extension. Something like this:
Code:
@echo off
if not %~x1.==.midi. goto :END
copy %1 *.mid
start a:\audio\reaper\reaper %~dpn1.mid
:END
You'll have to specify your path to reaper.exe instead of mine. Use "ren" instead of "copy" if you don't want to be cautious or don't want extra files.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:38 PM   #7
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there was another thread also because of some weird file-extensions.

I dont think its a good idea to build in an option for each and every weird case scenario into Reaper.

if your files dont have the correct extensions: live with it, change it, or sit there being screwed.

there are standards for a reason. because standars can be used by everyone. if you choose to go beyond the standards or have a life of the side of that than see how you deal with it.

I have made a lot of really important inventions in the last 40 years, but unfortunately they all do only work when the laws of physics are completely changed.

I recommende that over and over again, but nobody seemed to be interested in doing that.



"midi" isnt a file-extension. period. I think its illegal in some countries ...
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:01 PM   #8
Lawrence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donchilcott View Post
Totally agree with op, last thing we need is another workaround.
Exactly. How hard is it to add a new extender to an existing import filter, one which will use an already existing import sub-routine? Probably takes all of 5 minutes.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:00 AM   #9
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Hi guys,

Sorry for the late reply, for some reason I didn't get notifications from this thread. Here are my comments:

Quote:
On the other hand why the hell did anyone ever decide it would be a good idea to add an "i" to the end of a perfectly serviceable file extension?
Both .mid and .midi are standard and many programs use them. There is nothing wrong with using .midi.

Quote:
I would also be talking to the producers of lilypad and asking them WHY?
It's LilyPond, and there is nothing wrong in producing .midi files. As my original post mentions, LilyPond is by far not the only program to use them.

Quote:
Gilberto, you can create a batch file (you are on Windows, right?) and associate it with the .midi extension.
I am on Linux. Anyway, I know some workarounds for this situation, but my point has always been that REAPER should simply accept both .mid and .midi extensions directly since they are both standard. I know my way around, I am simply making a suggestion to improve REAPER.

Quote:
I dont think its a good idea to build in an option for each and every weird case scenario into Reaper.
Once again, .midi is a standard extension, not a weird scenario.

Quote:
"midi" isnt a file-extension. period.
You are wrong, period.

Quote:
Exactly. How hard is it to add a new extender to an existing import filter, one which will use an already existing import sub-routine? Probably takes all of 5 minutes.
Indeed that's the reason I made the feature request. The logic behind my request was:

- both .mid and .midi extensions are standards
- accepting .midi would make REAPER more compatible with other audio programs
- it must be a pretty simple thing to implement

Cheers,
Gilberto
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Old 06-20-2015, 11:00 AM   #10
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http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tut_midifiles.php

No mention of .midi being a standard there.
I used to buy in backing tracks before I started building my own and \never, not even once came across the file extension .midi.

Not meaning to be argumentative here, just that you are so vehement in your defence of .midi being a widely used and accepted file extension, I am now wondering exactly what this vast number of software tools using .midi is.
I had a quick google around and the results bore out my thinking - this is a real minority extension. A thought: Isnt it easier just to rename the files to *.mid first?

Seems an awful lot of trouble for the devs for such a relatively simple thing that you could easily do yourself.
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Old 06-20-2015, 11:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tut_midifiles.php

No mention of .midi being a standard there.
Indeed not, but it's a fact this is an extension widely used and not just some obscure thing as some of you try to point out. If you search for .midi extension, you will find several mentions of it, such as here: http://fileinfo.com/extension/midi

I also read in the Steinberg forum that "[...] in the dos days, [you] had a 3 character limit for file extensions, but many other Midi developers , have stuck with the .mid format for compatabilities sake. This does inherit problems, same as Web technology , treat a .Htm & a .Html file differently."

Quote:
Not meaning to be argumentative here, just that you are so vehement in your defence of .midi being a widely used and accepted file extension, I am now wondering exactly what this vast number of software tools using .midi is.
LilyPond and Melodyne are two examples that I know. I also read on Steinberg's forum that both Cubase and Pro Tools export MIDI as .midi files, but I have no way of confirming this myself as I don't have these programs on my computer.

Quote:
A thought: Isnt it easier just to rename the files to *.mid first?
Please read my first post in this thread about an example of workflow in which this becames a nightmare.

Quote:
Seems an awful lot of trouble for the devs for such a relatively simple thing that you could easily do yourself.
Really? An awful lot of trouble for adding a single extension?

To be frank, this is getting quite frustrating already. 90% of the messages here are about one of the following options: workarounds for the situation where the user does the work, trying to put the blame on the user himself, trying to put the blame on the program that generated the .midi file, etc., but almost no one is talking about how easy it would be to implement this feature. Also, the nature of some of the arguments here such as "this is wrong, period" shows that it may be indeed a waste of my time to argue about it. I simply made a polite feature request that could be declined in several ways such as "thanks, not interested".

I am used to the open source community (forums and mailing lists) and I am a contributor to various projects including audio ones, and I must tell you the difference in tone and posture is huge. This thread is a huge disappointment and a very bad way of welcoming a new user to this forum. There has been little to no pre-disposition in understanding what the problem really is. So I suggest you all do as you please and retain the incompatibility problem that your software currently has.

Best,
Gilberto
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:11 PM   #12
whiteaxxxe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsagostinho View Post
...

I also read in the Steinberg forum that "[...] in the dos days, [you] had a 3 character limit for file extensions, but many other Midi developers , have stuck with the .mid format for compatabilities sake. This does inherit problems, same as Web technology , treat a .Htm & a .Html file differently."

here is Steinberg completely wrong. I know no server-technology where htm and html are treated different. in every python based webapplication you have no fileextension at all. to determine the file from the extension is a way wrong method, beside the fact, that the "." would be in everything python-related (on the web) a path-separator and would lead to really funny results.

so ... and midi is not a widely used extension. I have never seen this in the last 25 years ... and I have seen a lot.

to determine the file-content by the extension is basically a Windows-thing. a correctly working OS determines what file it is by the content.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:21 PM   #13
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Inside lilypond code:
1.
#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "midi")

produce midifiles with the *.midi extension

2.
#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "mid")

produce midifiles with the *.mid extension

#########
Or the same over the command line
1.
lilypond … -dmidi-extension=midi FILENAME.ly

2.
lilypond … -dmidi-extension=mid FILENAME.ly

#########
And BTW. the extension *.midi comes from linux!

The "Standard" for all Standard Midifiles -also before the Computer age for everybody- was always *.mid or first *.smf for Standard Midi File,
never midi.

So Ivansc´s statement is absolute right... why the hell means some linux progger to add an i to an extension for a file with absolute the same content if the standard for that always was *.mid

Maybe that some idiots better know that files with an midi instead of mid extension is a file with standard MIDI content inside

But ok if the extension is unknow Reaper could normally identify various file formats on the header of the file and determine not only with reference to the extension name.

Like a few other progs can do..

"whiteaxxxe: to determine the file from the extension is a way wrong method"
Jup ^^
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:08 PM   #14
gsagostinho
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Quote:
Inside lilypond code:

#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "midi")

produce *.midi

#(ly:set-option 'midi-extension "mid")

produce a *.mid extension

#########
Or over the command line

lilypond … -dmidi-extension=midi ****.ly
lilypond … -dmidi-extension=mid ****.ly
Yes, I found that since I started this thread, and I have been using it myself. Still this is completely irrelevant to my point, since it still is and has always been about a feature request, not how to handle the current situation. Even if you managed to convince LilyPond devs to change the default output to .mid, my point that there are .midi files out there and there are programs producing them still stands. You guys are fighting so hard to make your program less compatible and that just defies any logic explanation.

Quote:
And BTW. the extension *.midi comes from linux
Sources, please.

And by the way, Melodyne does not run natively on Linux, nor do Pro Tools and Cubase, all of which I named as examples of programs outputting .midi files (the latter two I haven't check myself, but found this information online). Sibelius can import .midi files. Both MuseScore and PureData can read and save both as well. Shall I continue naming examples or is that enough for you?

Quote:
The "Standard" for all Standard Midifiles -before the Computer age for everybody- was always *.mid ... never midi.
Sure, I do take back calling it a standard since it's not listed at www.midi.org, so bad terminology from my side indeed. That is not to say that these files do not exist out there and aren't more common than you think. It is a fallacy to assume that just because someone have never seen a .midi file before then these files must not exist or at are extremely obscure. I already listed tons of programs that use, read and produce these type of files, but that argument has gone silently ignored. There were even requests in this very forum about this issue: http://forum.cockos.com/archive/index.php/t-67042.html

Quote:
So Ivansc´s statement is absolute right... why the hell means some linux progger to add an i to an extension for a file with absolute the same content if the standard for that ever was *.mid
Yeah, very likely all of us Linux programmers are just trying to make the whole world more complicated on purpose, probably just to bother you poor Windows and OS X users (also proprietary software isn't notorious at all in creating their own extensions instead of using a common standard, right?). Or maybe, just maybe, that isn't the case. Maybe it wasn't even a Linux programmer who decided in creating that extension, something supported by the fact that those 3 programs I mentioned do not run natively on Linux and all produce .midi files by default.

I honestly rest my case.
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:38 PM   #15
ELP
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how many old apps or better old hardware recognize standard midifiles with an midi extention instead of mid or smf?

Not a single one.
So thats the reason why for me smf or mid is the standard since hundreds of years.

To use midi instead of smf or mid for files with the same content is/was not a good idea.
like many other thinks also not....

BTW.
"
MMA:
....
Part 4: MIDI Files
Standard MIDI Files ("SMF" or *.mid files) are a popular source of music ........."

SMF or mid .. for standard midi content at MMA no reads about midi...
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:10 PM   #16
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I am very sorry that you have chosen to take offence at the answers you have received.

Has it occurred to you that you might equally be asking the same thing in reverse on the lilypond forum? The incompatibility problem here is with lilypond. Not Reaper. Every one of the other programs you have cited as saving in .midi offer it as an option, not the only choice. Which sort of leaves you hanging out to dry again.

It is a little ass-backwards to ask developers of one software to change THEIR code because you choose to use another program that is incapable of following the norm as cited in MY link, which is to the official midi manufacturers site, the people who actually decided the norms and conventions in the first place, rather than a site that enumerates various file suffixes with not much in the way of informed information connected to them as far as I could see.

(QUOTE) Yeah, very likely all of us Linux programmers are just trying to make the whole world more complicated on purpose, probably just to bother you poor Windows and OS X users (also proprietary software isn't notorious at all in creating their own extensions instead of using a common standard, right?). Or maybe, just maybe, that isn't the case. Maybe it wasn't even a Linux programmer who decided in creating that extension, something supported by the fact that those 3 programs I mentioned do not run natively on Linux and all produce .midi files by default.

I honestly rest my case. (/QUOTE)

Oh dear... your sense of superiority & entitlement is showing.


P.S. Please read back and you will see that although I was cited as accusing "a linux programmer" of inventing the .midi thing, I didn`t and never would. I was using Unix and subsets of it donkeys years ago - nothing wrong with Linux unless you want to run a decent DAW in it, but I live in hopes.

Last edited by ivansc; 06-20-2015 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Missed a bit mis-quoting me
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:33 PM   #17
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Just had another thought: O.P. You do realise that the responses you are getting here are just from other users, not the devs?
The FR section is essentially a big wish box and we as users get to discuss them but have no influence on what the devs choose to pick up on.
One of the biggest problems with making a feature request for something with an extremely limited interest to the rank and file user is that you will get a fair number of neutral to negative comments from people who are also fighting to get the dev`s attention for THEIR pet FR, of which there are many and a lot of them are outstanding for a very long time. Oddly enough one of these which is a pet of mine is the integration of a standard notation editor, which is finally after several years on the agenda.
So our perception is that you join the forum, immediately start asking (albeit politely in the first place) for what amounts to a pretty niche FR - just take a look at the outstanding MIDI FRs - and then get pissed off because we dont all immediately applaud & carry you to the top of the non-existent list, garlanded in flowers.
I am sincerely hoping this will give you a little more insight into how this thread has developed. And maybe we can all start again.

I forgot to add that if you really want this to be on the list as a feature request, you have to enter it as an official "Feature Request" who knows? You might get lucky.
Or maybe you could try entering it as a bug & cite this thread as the discussion?
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:51 AM   #18
b.yoshka
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Default MIDI files with extension *.midi are not recognised

Hello,
Hopefully a very easy and helpful fix: make Reaper recognise midi-files with extension *.midi alongside *.mid
These extensions are given by default by Cubase, for instance, but such files are greyed out in the file browser in Add Media item dialogue. I turned upside down the whole internet trying to find a fix, but discovered a very simple hack: I just renamed the extension from midi to mid and - jubilations! - the files have been recognised by Reaper and successfully imported!

Last edited by b.yoshka; 03-27-2016 at 04:54 AM. Reason: grammatical errors
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:35 AM   #19
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An old old discussion already done to death on here.
Rename them .mid like you said.

.midi was never part of the original MIDI spec for filenaming.
Steinberg trying to take over the world again, is all.

Historically, filename extensions in Dos on up through every flavour of Windows have been three digit.
And I am afraid in this case it really is a Windows world.

Oops! Sorry - forgot to welcome you to the forums! We try hard to be nice and mostly succeed....
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