Round robins, drum samples, Kontakt etc......I need to know more

[RoboPlankton]

So I load a drum kit, with round robins and all the razamatazz, into Kontakt.....

Thanks to suleiman's recent offerings I've realized there's more to it than simply loading up the samples. It seems I have to activate the round-robin thing in Kontakt - cycle, random, always, and, or, and not......so many options.

I've started studying all this and am looking for a five-or-six-sentence-intro-guide type of thing, by way of helping me into this. I'm primarily interested in drums, but I gather that the same thing can apply to other instruments.

I've started reading the manual, but it would be great if someone could give me an intro overview before I really get stuck in.

Groups.

I can have the same samples in three groups and enter a script I've found which will make sure the randomness is as random as possible.

The problem at the moment is.......whatever I do, I can't hear any real difference in what I hear. I'm just in this as a hobbyist - does it need an experienced ear to appreciate the differences? Are they quite subtle? Does it need an experienced ear to appreciate the random round robin?


And so on..........

.....I need to know what I'm studying, kinda, before I study it .


Cheers!

[DarkStar]

"Round-robin" is used for selecting one of several different samples - in sequential order, or randomly. The technique is used to avoid a "machine-gun"-like effect when the same note is triggered repeatedly. Each time a different sample is played.

In Kontakt the different samples mapped to a note can be triggered on step 1, 2, 3 ...N of an N-step cycle.

"and" is used in Kontakt to link one start condition to another. "And always" is always the last condition (as doesn't mean much).

More details in the Kontakt Reference Manual - 15.4.

To try it out, map 3 completely different samples (Kick, Tom and a Snare), each in their own group, to the same note and set the Group Start to Round-Robin , positions 12,2 and 3 respectively.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by RoboPlankton

So I load a drum kit, with round robins and all the razamatazz, into Kontakt.....

Thanks to suleiman's recent offerings I've realized there's more to it than simply loading up the samples. It seems I have to activate the round-robin thing in Kontakt - cycle, random, always, and, or, and not......so many options.

I've started studying all this and am looking for a five-or-six-sentence-intro-guide type of thing, by way of helping me into this. I'm primarily interested in drums, but I gather that the same thing can apply to other instruments.

I've started reading the manual, but it would be great if someone could give me an intro overview before I really get stuck in.

Groups.

I can have the same samples in three groups and enter a script I've found which will make sure the randomness is as random as possible.

The problem at the moment is.......whatever I do, I can't hear any real difference in what I hear. I'm just in this as a hobbyist - does it need an experienced ear to appreciate the differences? Are they quite subtle? Does it need an experienced ear to appreciate the random round robin?


And so on..........

.....I need to know what I'm studying, kinda, before I study it .

Hi Robo, Kontakt has a pretty good way of making Round Robins (RRs) and Random groups with the Group Start Options at the bottom of the Groups window. However, if the instrument contains multiple kit pieces, such as kik, snare, hat, ride, etc. with RRs or Random Groups, then that doesn't work very well at all because it doesn't keep track of each kit piece.

There's no way around it, if you want true RR or Random groups, it takes a Kontakt script to do it, at least if you want it to work properly with a drum kit.

If you're not quite ready for the scripting yet, I'd suggest to start off building a kit that just has one Group for each kit piece, in other words no RRs or Random groups. This will get you familiar with some of the more basic parts of Kontakt.

I can have the same samples in three groups and enter a script I've found which will make sure the randomness is as random as possible.

The problem at the moment is.......whatever I do, I can't hear any real difference in what I hear.

I think the problem may be what I've put in bold. If you use the same exact samples for each group, then they will sound exactly alike. You have to have a totally different set of samples in each group.

Any scripts written for Kontakt will need to be written for each particular group setup and it has to be precise.

If you want to get into scripting, VI-Control has a special Kontakt thread that would be of help.

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/inde...718b4d9117664a

I'd also help you in any way I can and there are a few others here on Reaper that can help too.

EDIT: Heh heh, I got sidetracked and I see DS poped in ahead with some good info. Oh well. we each have a little different perspective.

[RoboPlankton]

Thanks guys!

Beavering away here.....

I have a couple of questions:

What is the state in Kontakt if I load a drum instrument which has several velocity layers and round robins, such as Sennheiser Drummica. Are the layers and round robins active by default, or do I have to group them manually in Kontakt and mess about a bit to set it up for randomness?

the next question is about the script I found, it's here:

http://normalsounds.com/blog/random-...akt-scripting/

Would loading this script be all I need to do to get maximum randomness with drum samples?


I'll have read more on the subject by my the next time I come in, and will have spent some time actually in Kontakt.........

[RoboPlankton]

My main question, which I forgot....

All this random round robin stuff, does it only work with a midi controller keyboard or does it work from midi files too? I mainly use midi files for drums. I've read about keyswitching being part of the process in getting good randomness, but I can't see how this could be achieved in a midi file.


The noob quotient of my current questions is exceedingly high ! I've surfed a lot already and looked at the manual, but so far I'm not getting enlightened regarding drums specifically.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by RoboPlankton

I have a couple of questions:

What is the state in Kontakt if I load a drum instrument which has several velocity layers and round robins, such as Sennheiser Drummica. Are the layers and round robins active by default, or do I have to group them manually in Kontakt and mess about a bit to set it up for randomness?

In the case of Sennheiser Drummica you don't have to do anything, it's already programmed including the script.

As far as other libraries or drum programs go, it all depends on who programmed it and how it's programmed.

the next question is about the script I found, it's here:

http://normalsounds.com/blog/random-...akt-scripting/

Would loading this script be all I need to do to get maximum randomness with drum samples?

I don't think that script would do you much good, especially with drums. I haven't had a chance to load this into Kontakt yet but I'll take it in my studio and check it out a little closer.

Just looking at the script it don't see to have any provisions for Groups and it's also setup for all keys, with drums you want to be able to set it up for particular keys.

I'll take a closer look as soon as I can.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by RoboPlankton

My main question, which I forgot....

All this random round robin stuff, does it only work with a midi controller keyboard or does it work from midi files too? I mainly use midi files for drums. I've read about keyswitching being part of the process in getting good randomness, but I can't see how this could be achieved in a midi file.

Like any VSTi, and I think all VSTis, Kontakt will work with any midi you send it as long as you've got everything setup properly, such as the right midi channel, etc., it don't matter where the midi comes from, keyboard or midi file.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by RoboPlankton

Would loading this script be all I need to do to get maximum randomness with drum samples?

Hi Robo, I took a closer look at the script and the %list [7] are the groups.

Also it's a very simple matter of setting it up for one key and I can do that for you if you'd like.

The biggest problem with this script is that it's very restrictive. For example, if you have a snare with different mic positions then you will have to modify the script for that.

However, the script will work for a snare, or any other kit piece, if only one mic position is used. Or if all mic positions are mixed down to one file.

[RoboPlankton]

Thanks again!

I'm making some progress now. I followed Dark Star's suggestion without reference to the manual or anything, and got the result.

I've since found this channel on YT, which has some very good videos covering the basics. The Group Editor and mappings are included, showing the basic functions for getting going with all of this:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCepr-6h7kfbHa8BPvZqw-fg

My thanks, therefore, to Adam Tuson.


I got keyswitching sussed, by the way !

[Wolffman]

I had some problems when i first got kontakt trying to create drum kits.

This is the thread i started, it might help i don't know, and its been so long since i've done anything like this with Kontakt that i'm completely out of touch, in aother words, I'm useless to you

Maybe this thread will have something of use for you .

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=61713


Cheers