Help with Bass guitar?

[jamesrt2004]

Hey guys..

I'm new to recording really, I've always had a passion to want to do it.. and have run into some money so got a ton of software vst's and the like.. then got a cheap little mbox 2 mini off my friend for £50 =) while I plan what interface etc. to get..

Anyway my problem.
Recording any song, the bass is really.. sporadic as in, sometimes its super quiet or perfect then out of nowhere BOOM it's really loud and over powers everything (even in the same riff)!!

now this is going Bass --> Mbox 2 mini (via 1/4" jack) --> Reaper, Tracks3 (compressor but meh not sure if it's working) into ampeg SVT --> to a couple revalver for impulses...

now what can I do to help with the bass guitar? it really kills the songs when it does it.. need it to be 'normalized' I guess so the levels are all equal?


Help ? (I can wack a test piece on youtube for you to hear) just ignore the drums I got bored playing around in EZ drummer

Thanks,
James

(please remeber im completely new and know.. nothing haha)


edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBcugpdY5Tc

youtube video of a practice song with the said problem :/ I can't think of what to do! please help



also. if it helps, the Guitar is passive + aguilar pre. so does have a wicked tone it seems it's not very balanced though :/

[d. gauss]

not sure of your signal flow chain here. pretty much you should plug the bass into your ampeg SVT, turn it up til it growls, put a decent mic (sm57) in front of the SVT (pick the best of the 8 speakers) and then into your m-box. you should be golden. 'tis the sound of loud rock bass.

[jamesrt2004]

Copied this from other thread in hopes of more views/help/comments If a mod could close the one which isn't 'idealy' in the proper forum thats fine ..

Anyway as a copy..

Hey guys..

I'm new to recording really, I've always had a passion to want to do it.. and have run into some money so got a ton of software vst's and the like.. then got a cheap little mbox 2 mini off my friend for £50 =) while I plan what interface etc. to get..

Anyway my problem.
Recording any song, the bass is really.. sporadic as in, sometimes its super quiet or perfect then out of nowhere BOOM it's really loud and over powers everything (even in the same riff)!!

now this is going Bass --> Mbox 2 mini (via 1/4" jack) --> Reaper, Tracks3 (compressor but meh not sure if it's working) into ampeg SVT --> to a couple revalver for impulses...

now what can I do to help with the bass guitar? it really kills the songs when it does it.. need it to be 'normalized' I guess so the levels are all equal?


Help ? (I can wack a test piece on youtube for you to hear) just ignore the drums I got bored playing around in EZ drummer

Thanks,
James

(please remeber im completely new and know.. nothing haha)


edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBcugpdY5Tc
Yes the bass is wrong on a couple parts but I did it in 2 takes just quickly so you get the point of what i mean

youtube video of a practice song with the said problem :/ I can't think of what to do! please help



also, if it helps, the Guitar is passive + aguilar pre. so does have a wicked tone it seems it's not very balanced though :/

[jamesrt2004]

Originally Posted by d. gauss

not sure of your signal flow chain here. pretty much you should plug the bass into your ampeg SVT, turn it up til it growls, put a decent mic (sm57) in front of the SVT (pick the best of the 8 speakers) and then into your m-box. you should be golden. 'tis the sound of loud rock bass.

sorry about the dodgy signal flow, It's ampeg SVT (amplitube VST) hope it makes more sense now

[junioreq]

ouch, You have new strings? Inotation set correctly? Its super muddy, I cant even hear a bass High pass that bass, cut tons of mud around 200-300 and boost 1k or 3k...

If its popping out notes, play it differently, or hit those notes differently... When you have only sub 80 hz of bass in the mix well thats gonna be jumpy.. not all notes are sub 100hz.....

Needs to be mixed correctly..

Bass sounds completely dead on 3 month old strings with no di box or something... Just put the bass on the track do a hp at 60 and cut some 200/300 hz and add some 1k and be done with it..

What is your reference track? A/b them/

Listen to the bass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp8p5...eature=related

Also, i wouldn't use any ampsim etc... maybe a touch of one very slightly.....

~Rob.

[jamesrt2004]

Originally Posted by junioreq

ouch, You have new strings? Inotation set correctly? Its super muddy, I cant even hear a bass High pass that bass, cut tons of mud around 200-300 and boost 1k or 3k...

If its popping out notes, play it differently, or hit those notes differently... When you have only sub 80 hz of bass in the mix well thats gonna be jumpy.. not all notes are sub 100hz.....

Needs to be mixed correctly..

Bass sounds completely dead on 3 month old strings with no di box or something... Just put the bass on the track do a hp at 60 and cut some 200/300 hz and add some 1k and be done with it..

What is your reference track? A/b them/

Listen to the bass:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp8p5...eature=related

Also, i wouldn't use any ampsim etc... maybe a touch of one very slightly.....

~Rob.

Strings are 2 month DR high beams so shouldn't be a problem, intonation.. should be correct (i'll double check tomorrow)I agree it's really muddy and sounds too bassy!

Yeah bass was recorded in two takes really quickly just to highlight the problem, even if I play the same riff over and over sometimes it just is louder and others quieter :/ really odd.

How would I go about cutting 200-300 and upping 1kz? (what I mean is by how much :/ I have no idea, or is it a case of play until it's more clean)


I have no idea how to mix (I just brought all the stuff hoping it'll make me sound goo already haha) obviously not.. but I'll read tutorials about it and learn about that!

again how do I do a High Pass :/ I have no idea? and yeah there isn't a DI box, it's going Bass->Lead->Mbox 2 mini,jack not mic/di input, would that make a difference then? as I can pick one up whenever.

No reference track, just Guitars me and a friend recorded earlier in the day :/ we are both new to this and trying our best to figure it out but got massively stumped with this.

Used your advice on the ampsim now it's less muddy cheers


In short incase thats too long winded!

What/how would I set up EQ that you recommend I.E how much DB I cut etc?

How do I do a high/Low pass filter?

And should I get a proper DI box for bass? (I'll get new strings)

Cheers,
James

[Coachz]

first adjust the tone on your bass guitar to get an even volume from all the notes. then get a nice compressor like MOLOT and compress the bass to make the uneven playing levels even more even.

Throw a limiter like Buzzmaxi3 on it to limit the volume and that should do it. Eq should be the last thing and only needed if the bass guitar is a bad guitar that can't play evenly.

[kindafishy]

Hi James, and welcome.

Here are some good places to start.

- Read the REAPER manual and do the exercises -> http://www.cockos.com/reaper/userguide.php.

- Once that is done, this book is highly recommended (same author as the user guide) -> http://www.lulu.com/product/paperbac...reaper/6526524. It will improve your mixes. You can get all the basics from the user guide though.

As far as you bass volume/level problem, it is hard to say (for me) right now as the track you posted makes it hard to make out what the bass is doing. However, since you said that it is hard to hear and then go boom within the same riff, I suspect that (and please don't take offense, this is with the best of intentions), you need to fix it at the source instead of looking to a compressor to even it out. Work on your playing technique to play very even notes.

Also, not to be patronizing, as I don't know anything about your playing history and experience (sounds good BTW!), this is very important -> do not practice bass dry - always practice through an amp (or your VST). You simply cannot learn to control the dynamics of the instrument otherwise. Do specific practice exercises where you work on your dynamics and pay attention to the tone as you do so. Compressors should be used to enhance and smooth something that is already near perfect, not as a compensation mechanism.

...and have fun. This is a great place.

[chrisharbin]

@SVT amp suggestion: LOL! Easy to make that mistake (I think svt is permanently embedded in our brains )

It's SVX btw

Getting a bass sound is terribly hard to do imho and requires some tlc for sure.

As was suggested, a comp or limiter on the front end is ideal but not always the case and it takes a ton of practice to learn to get it right. What I'd suggest is getting the signal to "clip" playing a bit harder than you would recording. Then when you record it should be ok w/o the cliping.

There are many tricks you can use to get the bass hotter (comp/limit/normalize) but I'll let better experts than me weigh in on that. I'd be willing to bet that a google would reveal a multitude of people with the exact same problem with vids.

[junioreq]

BTW, you will never listen or play music the same after this. Its very rewarding to record your own stuff and mix it, as well as time consuming. Once you learn just a little about this stuff, you will see just HOW GOOD the pros are at both playing the instruments, writing the songs and mixing.

Your in for a ride bud.

~Rob.

[JonnyGinese]

Hey man... You should be Compressing after the signal chain(VST amp sim)...

E-mail me and maybe I can help you out.

EQ - Take out/put in the frequencies you wish
Comp - Even out the sounds in which you created with the EQ
Gate - Open/Close audible sound (usually not used on a bass)

I'll look forward to hearing from you.

Jonny Ginese

[Lokasenna]

I generally compress my bass right before the amp sim and again right after. Blockfish (a free compressor) has a great bass preset to get you started.

It's also a good idea to read about multiband compression. You can use ReaXComp for it, and it can do wonders for keeping the low end of a signal under control.

[Kenny]

I'm a guitar player who years and years ago got a well paying gig on bass by way of a friend who was leaving town and recomended me for his job. I was insecure about not being a good enough bass player to replace him and started obsessing over getting the most out of my sound. Take it from me, a huge part of tone comes from your hands. How hard you press when you fret, the direction by which you pluck, muting on both hands, etc....get the technique down first!

Next, while there will certainly be different opinions on this, I'm compelled to state mine because it contradicts what was previously said....NO NEW STRINGS! I know, I capitalized that and added an exclamation point, but it really is just one of several schools of thought. If you're slapping and popping, then maybe that would be a situation where new strings would be favorable, but I find worn in strings much richer in tone for bass. If they get too dull sounding I recommend taking them off and dropping them in a pot of boiling water for ten or fifteen minutes then putting the old strings back on. Bass strings I usually won't replace unless one breaks (rare for me) or I'm looking for a distinctly new tone that would only come from a different kind of string (like flatwounds vs roundrounds).

My bass chain is very simple - DI + compressor. No amp or even amp emulation, but again, this is to taste and definitely not a rule. I will often use a Sansamp bass driver as my DI, as it kind of "models" an amp within itself, but DI through my preamp provides equally favorable results. My compressor is usually set somewhere between 4:1 and 6:1 with a threshold low enough that all but the quietest of notes are triggering the gain reduction. Fast attack (usually under 10ms) and release dependant on the speed of the song...use your ears and meters to gauge. I might occassionally include an EQ before the compressor, but it's usually not necessary as I have three bands on my active bass, plus the three bands, presence, and drive on the sansamp to sculpt the sound on the way in.

When mixed with other instruments, don't forget to high pass filter the instruments that have no business intruding on the bass range, and then try to sculpt your kick drum eq to fit in a pocket of your bass eq, or vice versa.

So once again, this is how I do it and while I still have trouble with lots of aspects of my mixes, the bass I've become very comfortable with and feel really confident that once it's down it's one aspect I won't have to spend hours tweaking later to get to sound just right. Just because I do it this way doesn't make it "right" nor does someone else's method make it particularly "wrong." It's all just guidance and in the end you'll have to find your own way. But I stand by "learn great technique" first...everything else should fall into place.

[markwhite007]

Originally Posted by Kenny

So once again, this is how I do it and while I still have trouble with lots of aspects of my mixes, the bass I've become very comfortable with and feel really confident that once it's down it's one aspect I won't have to spend hours tweaking later to get to sound just right. Just because I do it this way doesn't make it "right" nor does someone else's method make it particularly "wrong." It's all just guidance and in the end you'll have to find your own way. But I stand by "learn great technique" first...everything else should fall into place.

Yes I agree. I'm a guitar player also who has played a fair amount of bass. The two best ways I've recorded the bass are:
1. Plug into a small amp. Mike the amp with a SM-57. At the same time use a direct box and go direct. Then mix the two sources.
2. Go direct. Use a compressor (I use the free classic compressor) and a simulator Ibanez tube screamer with a VERY slight overdrive.

Read a couple of articles about bass players, i.e. Paul McCartney (#1), and several producers for #2.
Mark

[ObiK]

Does it still jump around in volume with no effects on it at all? If it doesn't then its the settings in one of the plugs, if it still does then it happens as its being recorded as most likely a bad cable, bass resonance, or even the input.

[soundchaser59]

I am amazed...... I wont be able to offer any suggestions unless you post a clip that has all that dirty guitar taken out, so I can just hear the bass part.

[Riverman63]

Could it possibly be a lead and/or connection problem with contact not being 100% reliable on the bass? That can cause changes in volume depending on the angle of the bass as you play. Just a suggestion.