Windows-10, final thughts? Time is short...

[RobU]

Originally Posted by DBMusic

WTF! W10...the ultimate spyware disguised as an OS.

I don't think it's necessary to reach for the tinfoil hat. 10 talks home a lot more than previous versions, which makes sense if you look at some of the new functionality (cortana and cloud sync for example), but you can always turn that off, which begs the question of why to upgrade in the first place if you don't use all the new shiny

R

[Lannister]

Originally Posted by robu_23

...which begs the question of why to upgrade in the first place if you don't use all the new shiny

They've done a lot of work under the hood regarding Audio and MIDI (not ASIO related mind, as it's a Steinberg thing), which, if vendors can be bothered, should be great for working with DAW's on Windows.

[clepsydrae]

I'm not trying to spread FUD, and Win 10 sounds pretty great/solid/clean all around so far (haven't used it myself, and won't until all auto-updates can be disabled in a real way), but this paragraph from the above link did cause me to raise an eyebrow:

We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services.

Doesn't sound like that paragraph could be 'turned off' in preferences. :-) That kind of broad language does make me a bit uncomfortable.

The rest of it, as robu_23 says, seems like it can be disabled, and though it's nobody's favorite stuff to see in an OS, that's what SaaS looks like, and MS has said that Windows is now SaaS...

[Lannister]

Not really bothered that much by all the privacy concerns,. Most of it can be ignored by simply not using an MS account to log in to Windows 10 with, which is what I did.

I currently, as with Windows 8/8.1, have no interest in the Windows App store, so I don't need to be logged in to an MS accoutn to access it. That might change of course...

And to be honest, what MS are doing on the desktop isn't that far removed from what Apple and Google do in the Mobile space. The only reason it's so front and centre for Windows 10 is because it's designed to run on Mobiles/tablets etc too.

[Gerry]

OK wasn't going to do this but decided that sooner or later there would be no option so I might as well get it over with. The constant reminder that 10 was about to install and the need to re-schedule also meant that on a reboot it would install anyway like it or not.

This was an upgrade from 7 Ultimate 64 Bit and after just one hour Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit was installed and nearly all working. With a little tweaking in terms of driver updates in the main from 7 to 8 as many as yet do not have specific Windows 10 drivers on their sites but using the 8 appears to be the answer as it resolved any issues. Example Realtek PCle Family Controller Adapter stopped functioning so no Internet. Downloaded the driver for windows 8 from my laptop and installed on the windows 10 desktop. E Licenser (Dongle) also required an update and was very simple to do. Reaper working perfectly, Cubase 5 working perfectly. NI Komplete 10 Ultimate all working perfectly.

The best news not one crash as in "Display driver stopped responding and has recovered" error in Windows 7 which plagued me. So a big thumbs up and I will be back with any issues but for now all looks good.

Oh and I note you get 1 month to roll back if you are not happy but after a few hours I think Windows 10 is here to stay and it can only get better.

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by DBMusic

Not the way I look at it. When I can control what goes on my computer, it's essentially mine. When I can't, it belongs to someone else.

You're wrong, you do not own your copy of Windows just like you do not own almost any piece of software you use.

If all this is such an issue with you, stop using Windows, OS X, iOS, Android, any modern Linux distribution, gaming consoles, web browsers, Anything Google, Yahoo .. generally anything on the web.

Stop using our debit/credit card, do not use supermarkets, be in Malls or city centers. Certainly do not use airports, most trainstation, banks. Do not go to sporting events or in fact any event that will sell tickets online.

In general, be a hermit.

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by robu_23

For those still thinking about moving to 10, some food for thought - http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2015/07/29/wind-nos/
Cheers

That article is so riddled with misinformation and wild assumptions based on out of context quotes from a fairly generic T&C document.

It's pure scaremongering and click-bait and really has no actual truth to it.

It would be like claiming the CEO's secretary is spying on everyone as she has access to all his contacts, can read his calendar, screens his mail. Because she has an intercom to his office, she listens in to all his conversations. And when asked will help schedule the CFO calendar around that of her boss.

It's the same BS we got when xbox one was introduces and claims were made that the kinect was secretly listening in to all your conversations and recording them in the cloud.

Go live under a tree while knitting your new tin foil hat if you believe all this. But then again, the aliens actually in control of our governments will find you anyway.

[babag]

and, after the dog exploded (see my previous post), the body was retrieved by unmarked black helicopters. i suspect they'll be replaced by drones soon.

[Lannister]

Originally Posted by paulheu

You're wrong, you do not own your copy of Windows just like you do not own almost any piece of software you use.

If all this is such an issue with you, stop using Windows, OS X, iOS, Android, any modern Linux distribution, gaming consoles, web browsers, Anything Google, Yahoo .. generally anything on the web.

Stop using our debit/credit card, do not use supermarkets, be in Malls or city centers. Certainly do not use airports, most trainstation, banks. Do not go to sporting events or in fact any event that will sell tickets online.

In general, be a hermit.

The perfect answer for the "Tin Foil Hat Brigade"

[Softsynth]

It seems to be mainly US citizens that think that their private lives must be so interesting that their governments will bankrupt their country investing in enough manpower to catalogue and listen into their every email, mobile phone call, text, twatter comment, Book face bilge and use this to subjugate their citizens; mu ha ha ha!!!
Big Brother is watching you, he knows your every move, and he's got the time and resources to watch all of you! if only you were that interesting!
And yet the world over travesties of justice and the woeful governmental ineptitude of our all too human politicians and their failed policies is plain to see the anywhere you look.

Perhaps the fantasy of the illuminati is actually a comforting thought for some? A fantasy of greater order than can truly exist in a world of populist politicians and failed policies.

[bluzkat]

Tod,

Take a look here...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930.

Good luck.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by robu_23

I don't think it's necessary to reach for the tinfoil hat.

I don't think it is necessary to cast tinfoil hats onto people who have concern for user privacy and Microsoft's new liberal (in what user data they collect) privacy policy.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by paulheu

That article is so riddled with misinformation and wild assumptions based on out of context quotes from a fairly generic T&C document.

It's pure scaremongering and click-bait and really has no actual truth to it.

It would be like claiming the CEO's secretary is spying on everyone as she has access to all his contacts, can read his calendar, screens his mail. Because she has an intercom to his office, she listens in to all his conversations. And when asked will help schedule the CFO calendar around that of her boss.

It's the same BS we got when xbox one was introduces and claims were made that the kinect was secretly listening in to all your conversations and recording them in the cloud.

Go live under a tree while knitting your new tin foil hat if you believe all this. But then again, the aliens actually in control of our governments will find you anyway.

Maybe you would like to refute the claims made in that article. The fact is that Microsoft is collecting users' personal data for whatever purpose they see fit. You can look at that for what it is - users being coerced, and even tricked, into handing off personal data to Microsoft and 'partners' because it is the default in their operating system, or you can look at it for what it isn't - users volunteering to provide Microsoft with personal data, for whatever purposes Microsoft sees fit to use it for. Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KVyFio8gw4

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

It seems to be mainly US citizens that think that their private lives must be so interesting that their governments will bankrupt their country investing in enough manpower to catalogue and listen into their every email, mobile phone call, text, twatter comment, Book face bilge and use this to subjugate their citizens; mu ha ha ha!!!
Big Brother is watching you, he knows your every move, and he's got the time and resources to watch all of you! if only you were that interesting!
And yet the world over travesties of justice and the woeful governmental ineptitude of our all too human politicians and their failed policies is plain to see the anywhere you look.

Perhaps the fantasy of the illuminati is actually a comforting thought for some? A fantasy of greater order than can truly exist in a world of populist politicians and failed policies.

It's not so much a threat of real-time surveillance.....more of data mining which could be used to create profiles and manufacture convenient back-stories.

Suppose your data - packaged according to the whims of whoever - becomes available to a prospective employer, or your opposition barrister in a court case? All sorts of dirt can be dug, inferred, advantages exploited; positives or a rounded picture removed or distorted.

You could miss plane or ferry trips either because you're wrongly categorised or because your political views or ideology don't align with whatever is acceptable to whoever. You might even have the poor taste to join a particular trades union, or any trades union, for example.

On a more mundane level, your possibilities will be narrowed. Advertising and entertainment will be targeted at you. What you receive as apparent free choices will be different to what I receive.....according to what it's presumed you can afford, or what "type of person you are".

[Softsynth]

Well Microsoft is in the advertising business with their free operating system.
They want info on you to better target the adverts at the right customers.
it's nothing more sinister than wanting fast access to your filthy lucre.

I would have preferred an option to pay for an operating system, choose the updates and go ad free.
How many of us wish everything wasn't becoming so intricately woven with the web sales/shopping/fake social media experience?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015...vacy-settings/

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

It's not so much a threat of real-time surveillance.....more of data mining which could be used to create profiles and manufacture convenient back-stories.

Suppose your data - packaged according to the whims of whoever - becomes available to a prospective employer, or your opposition barrister in a court case? All sorts of dirt can be dug, inferred, advantages exploited; positives or a rounded picture removed or distorted.

You could miss plane or ferry trips either because you're wrongly categorised or because your political views or ideology don't align with whatever is acceptable to whoever. You might even have the poor taste to join a particular trades union, or any trades union, for example.

On a more mundane level, your possibilities will be narrowed. Advertising and entertainment will be targeted at you. What you receive as apparent free choices will be different to what I receive.....according to what it's presumed you can afford, or what "type of person you are".

You're getting into serious conspiracy theory territory there!
Yeah, Microsoft aren't worrying about Reds under the Beds. I really do not think they will be able to legally sell your private buyers profile or information on politically/religious leaning or sexual mores to your potential employer either, neither is it part of the agenda.
Employers often get that stuff pretty easily these days anyway from people will Facebook and Twitter accounts. Then again maybe I'm an Axe murderer because I've avoided both!

Specialist shops are nearly dead and gone, the Internet has killed much of them. Now the Internet has to bring the sales pitch directly into your home.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

You're getting into serious conspiracy theory territory there!
Yeah, Microsoft aren't worrying about Reds under the Beds. I really do not think they will be able to legally sell your private buyers profile or information on politically/religious leaning or sexual mores to your potential employer either, neither is it part of the agenda.
Employers often get that stuff pretty easily these days anyway from people will Facebook and Twitter accounts. Then again maybe I'm an Axe murderer because I've avoided both!

Of course Microsoft only want advertising leads from the huge haul of private data.
The rest is trash.

That's why governments don't have agencies to collect it.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by bluzkat

Tod,

Take a look here...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930.

Thanks bluzkat, for all the help.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Of course Microsoft only want advertising leads from the huge haul of private data.
The rest is trash.

That's why governments don't have agencies to collect it.

The security services don't care who you're voting for. They don't care that you're screwing the neighbours wife, or even that you're dodging taxes.
There simply isn't the apparatus nor the inclination to monitor us all for the purposes of mass control. On both sides of the Atlantic they even lack the resources to monitor all of the known potential terrorists at all times. The security services really are there to attempt to keep us safe. They are welcome to look through the endless sea of mundane bilge and nonsense for trigger words that could imply terrorist threat and they only get to do that with permission.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

That's why governments don't have agencies to collect it.

Before too much longer, they may not need them anymore. Private companies seem to be doing a fine job of harvesting personal data, as if plucking dumb turnips from the ground...

AdID# 27vlw0oasdfl2339f334
Age 45
Hair short sandy blonde
Weight 186 lbs.
Height 6 ft.
Green eyes
Bachelor in communications
Married to AdID#7g0sd0fl2030303
3 kids AdID#1023lfsdfa2340 AdID#10flsdlfo230f02v AdID#1023rodlflsldasdf
Is between jobs
Is a homeowner
Annual income of $47k
Drives a grey 2010 Honda van
Purchased milk and bread from Krogers on 42nd St. seven minutes ago
Texted AdID#7g0sd0fl2030303 two minutes ago, "on my way"
Is wearing a yellow and white striped golf tee and blue jeans, brown shoes
Likes brunettes
Got an erection 3.3 times today
Subscription to Cabin & Forest magazine
...
Purchase classification score 3
Available funds score 5.9
Return score 6.5
Impulsive purchase score 6.5
Social media response 4.2
...
Natural political score -5.2
Effective political score 2.7
...

Bitsoft Privacy Policy

Bitsoft goes to great lengths to anonymize personal data before passing it on to our partners. We use personal data to improve* your user experience in the digitally meshed world, and for whatever the hell reasons we want, sucker. You didn't read this anyway, did you?

*See p. 547 of the guide to the long interpretation manual to our privacy policy on reading our privacy policy

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

The security services don't care who you're voting for. They don't care that you're screwing the neighbours wife, or even that you're dodging taxes.
There simply isn't the apparatus nor the inclination to monitor us all for the purposes of mass control. On both sides of the Atlantic they even lack the resources to monitor all of the known potential terrorists at all times. The security services really are there to attempt to keep us safe. They are welcome to look through the endless sea of mundane bilge and nonsense for trigger words that could imply terrorist threat and they only get to do that with permission.

*beep* *beep* *pause* *beep*

You are hearby given official notice of citation for violating policy# 2083jkflasl34432 for the use of the word 'terrorists' in open public discussion. The words 'ter' 'terr' 'terro' 'terror' 'terrori' 'terroris' 'terrorist' 'terrorists', in whole and in part, are for official use only in public view by Bitsoft and it's global security partners. As a result of your violation, we regret to inform you that your personal communications device will automatically shutdown for a period of no less than 48 hours and no more than 72 hours, as per p. 926 of the user guide to the long manual of the Bitsoft service agreement. Any attempt to prevent automatic shutdown or your personal communications device will result in termination of your contract with Bitsoft, releasing us from agreement to provide you with Bitsoft communications services. Please do not contact us concerning this violation. This is an automated response.

We value you as a customer, and we seek your user feedback on improving your user experience with Bitsoft products. Sucker.

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by Softsynth

The security services don't care who you're voting for. They don't care that you're screwing the neighbours wife, or even that you're dodging taxes.

Oh dear.
Google "MI5 and miners' strike" or "MI5 and animal rights" or "MI5 and child abuse cover up".
You'll find plenty even in the mainstream media.

There simply isn't the apparatus nor the inclination to monitor us all for the purposes of mass control. On both sides of the Atlantic they even lack the resources to monitor all of the known potential terrorists at all times.

Again, you're confusing real time surveillance with amassing profiles for use "after the event".

The security services really are there to attempt to keep us safe.

I think you'll find that your understanding of 'us" and their understanding of "us" are not identical.

They are welcome to look through the endless sea of mundane bilge and nonsense for trigger words that could imply terrorist threat and they only get to do that with permission.

Yeah, because left with unfettered access to everyone's personal profiles, they couldn't possibly take any advantage.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

*beep* *beep* *pause* *beep*

You are hearby given official notice of citation for violating policy# 2083jkflasl34432 for the use of the word 'terrorists' in open public discussion. The words 'ter' 'terr' 'terro' 'terror' 'terrori' 'terroris' 'terrorist' 'terrorists', in whole and in part, are for official use only in public view by Bitsoft and it's global security partners. Your personal communications device will automatically shutdown for a period of no less than 48 hours and no more than 72 hours, as per p. 926 of the user guide to the long manual of the Bitsoft service agreement. Any attempt to prevent automatic shutdown or your personal communications device will result in termination of your contract with Bitsoft, releasing us from agreement to provide you with Bitsoft communications services.

We value you as a customer, and we seek your user feedback on improving your user experience with Bitsoft products. Sucker.

On the contrary they would want your personal communications device to stay on, so they could monitor you long enough to discover if you are a threat and if not move on.
That really isn't enough anyway. Sequences of terrorist key words are unlikely to include the words "Hello, I'm a terrorist, looking for something or someone nice to blow up, praise be to the celestial Teapot".

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Again, you're confusing real time surveillance with amassing profiles for use "after the event".

Yeah, because left with unfettered access to everyone's personal profiles, they couldn't possibly take any advantage.

I'm not confusing anything.
I am well aware of the tools of surveillance and it's inevitable abuse.
I'm not at all naive, then again far from paranoid.

[brainwreck]

If you are concerned about privacy in Windows 10, you might be interested in the following:

Articles on Windows 10 privacy

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...fault-settings

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/pri...ith-windows-10

https://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-1...ow-to-opt-out/

Discussion on Windows 10

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/07...mess-and-worse

(commments sorted by post time, not pr'ed upvotes)
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/...u_do/?sort=old

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9976298

[ivansc]

BW & Visco: Please do us all a favour & keep it in the lounge thread.
We are already discussing the privacy issues there, no point in belabouring the point and cluttering up yet another area of the forum.

See my post above about how long it took me to take care of this stuff.
Not saying I got it all, but in relation to the sheer weight of numbers involved, "they" can't be looking over everyone's shoulder simultaneously.

And do you REALLY care if they know what washing powder your wife buys in Tesco?

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by ivansc

And do you REALLY care ...

Yes !!!

[EvilDragon]

Re: privacy from Pete, the MS guy:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11228094-post97.html

[viscofisy]

Originally Posted by ivansc

BW & Visco: Please do us all a favour & keep it in the lounge thread.
We are already discussing the privacy issues there, no point in belabouring the point and cluttering up yet another area of the forum.

See my post above about how long it took me to take care of this stuff.
Not saying I got it all, but in relation to the sheer weight of numbers involved, "they" can't be looking over everyone's shoulder simultaneously.

You might want to check many of your own comments for relevance before assuming to police others.
This is clearly a public interest issue.
You're having trouble keeping up - "They" don't have to constantly look over your shoulder - they only have to keep a profile which can then get into the hands of the highest bidder.
This includes any and all of your private folders and emails. See below.

And do you REALLY care if they know what washing powder your wife buys in Tesco?

If washing powder is the most important topic in your private life and emails then no, you probably don't care.

From Windows 10 EULA :

We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services.

So we're down to relying on Microsoft's own interpretation of "good faith".

As far as "you're getting a free software and the price is your data" argument - I paid for my own Windows7 discs, and I'd prefer to pay again if the software was a significant improvement on what I already paid for.

Windows 8 certainly wasn't, and Windows10 is unlikely to be.

[ivansc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS8dNzRhMgk


I have better thing to do with my time than worry about shit I can do nothing about.
If t worried me to the extent that it seems to worry you guys, the answer is simple.
Dump your computer phone tv etc. Then you only have your actual MAIL mail to worry about and those laser receptors they have aimed at the windows of your house.
Car? forget it. they have you tracked there too.
Maybe move to the farthest outreaches of civilisation and become a hermit. Hang on - Visco is already at the farthest outreaches of civilisation.

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by viscofisy

As far as "you're getting a free software and the price is your data" argument - I paid for my own Windows7 discs, and I'd prefer to pay again if the software was a significant improvement on what I already paid for.

Windows 8 certainly wasn't, and Windows10 is unlikely to be.

I've said this already on this forum but I would rather pay the one off fee for an operating system and then have an ad free experience.

I imagine this "free" model is here to stay for a long while, I expect the advertising space will be far more lucrative (in the long run) for Microsoft than the price tag on recent versions of Windows. We don't get that option though, so little point complaining about it.
Nonetheless the directly targeted marketing world as envisioned in the movie Minority Report is my idea of a personal hell.

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Re: privacy from Pete, the MS guy:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11228094-post97.html

Yeah, and it's kind of ironic that especially sites which live off of adds and having ppl collect and use your (private) data are trying to whip up a storm over what really is a non issue.

I hope all of you b*tchin on this have your employers CEO secretary checked as she will basically do and have access to the exact same stuff as Cortana. Just to cover one of these BS arguments.

[kenz]

Originally Posted by ivansc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS8dNzRhMgk


I have better thing to do with my time than worry about shit I can do nothing about.
If t worried me to the extent that it seems to worry you guys, the answer is simple.
Dump your computer phone tv etc. Then you only have your actual MAIL mail to worry about and those laser receptors they have aimed at the windows of your house.
Car? forget it. they have you tracked there too.
Maybe move to the farthest outreaches of civilisation and become a hermit. Hang on - Visco is already at the farthest outreaches of civilisation.

Or just don't use Windows 10 until people find out how to disable those "features". There's a world out there without it.

Reductio ad absurdum isn't gonna cut it. I hope nobody here truly is worried that he'll be the victim of a targetted attack, unless he's really high profile which I doubt. The real worries stem from the automated attacks. Example: Microsoft's data is leaked. Targetted attack? For sure not on you personally, true, but now your data is out there, for all automated bots/malware to see. What then?

But hey, Adobe thought the same way too until their Flash source code was leaked. Ignorance is bliss i guess?

[+NRG]

Updated from Windows 8.1 64-bit to Windows 10 64-bit. No problems or issues... So far, so good. Reaper rocking along!

Only thing I didn't like about Windows 10 was the window title bars are white but I found this tweak to restore the colored title bar option. The original option is still available...

I did "Option two. Restore colored titlebars in Windows 10 manually"

http://winaero.com/blog/get-colored-...in-windows-10/

[Franç]

Sonar just had a windows 10 update and in the release notes are some interesting stuff about how WASAPI now delivers near ASIO performance.

http://static.cakewalk.com/cakewalk/...ter_update.pdf

[paulheu]

Originally Posted by kenz

For sure not on you personally, true, but now your data is out there, for all automated bots/malware to see. What then?

I'm certain there's a small army of hackers trying daily to hack and get to people's personal data stored on Microsoft's servers. I'm also certain Microsoft has at least a similar army in place to prevent that from happening.

Am I worried that it will? No, Microsoft probably has the most to loose from any other company out there if this would happen and thus I am confident they have the required systems in place to prevent that.

Does that give me a 100% certainty it won't happen? No, but I am convinced the chances of someone breaking in to my house and stealing my gear is significantly higher. And when that happens I know I can easily and quickly restore any critical data I may have using the Microsoft cloud. For me that weighs in a hell of a lot heavier than any concerns I may or should have about the security of my private data Windows (!=Microsoft)has access to.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Re: privacy from Pete, the MS guy:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11228094-post97.html

Originally Posted by paul@Microsoft

Some of the biggest issues they point out are a) completely opt-in and off by default (Cortana using your info) and b) available as toggles in the custom install. If you accept the defaults, you get what's in the interest of the company (whatever company) providing the software whenever you install something.

Really? What exactly is 'off by default'? As far as I can tell, the custom install option is a bit hidden under a wall of text, while the express install, with all of it's data collection debauchery is completely visible, being indicated as a button for proceeding with the install. It's a dark pattern used to move users along with compliance of sharing personal data. Here is what the privacy policy says on what personal data is collected:

Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.

Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.

Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language.

Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.

Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.

Usage data. We collect data about how you interact with our services. This includes data, such as the features you use, the items you purchase, the web pages you visit, and the search terms you enter. This also includes data about your device, including IP address, device identifiers, regional and language settings, and data about the network, operating system, browser or other software you use to connect to the services. And it also includes data about the performance of the services and any problems you experience with them.

Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft service to manage contacts, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations.

Location data. We collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Position System (GPS) data, as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based services or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.

Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:

subject line and body of an email,
text or other content of an instant message,
audio and video recording of a video message, and
audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

Additionally, when you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded. If you enter our retail stores, your image may be captured by our security cameras.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/priv...t/default.aspx

But the real issue is not only to do with Microsoft collecting personal data by default. It is that they are doing it all. Saying that Google has been doing it all along doesn't excuse Microsoft to do it, too. Google has come under heavy criticism for their practices in recent years, with many users moving away from Google services, as I'm sure these privacy issues will cause many users to move away from Microsoft for software that respects privacy.

The paradox here is that, yes, users are free to move on to an os that better respects privacy, but many users have always used Windows, because it is installed on virtually all new computers by default (a monopoly). Most users will have no idea how to go about installing a new os, configuring devices, and dealing with problems, because the os isn't setup on new computers by default to work out of the box.

The bottom line.

Originally Posted by paul@Microsoft

But, you would be absolutely correct not to trust any corporation. In the end, a corporation's interests typically lie with their shareholders.

And...

Originally Posted by paul@Microsoft

But, no, Windows 10 isn't sharing a bunch of stuff on your behalf.

See the privacy policy link above for what personal data is collected (shared with Microsoft) and how it is used (by Microsoft and partners).

"Privacy is dead – get over it" - Steve Rambam

So long as we continue using these kinds of services, it definitely is. And if enough people repeat saying it, it must be true. Right?

[Aymara]

Originally Posted by brainwreck

See the privacy policy link above for what personal data is collected (shared with Microsoft) and how it is used (by Microsoft and partners).

Collecting passwords and emails is far, very far, from being acceptable ... Window 10 needs to be boycotted by any means. But most folks are too stupid :-(

I only run it in a VM searching for ways to stop this nonsense.

[Joaquins Void]

One the one hand, they are not doing anything Android and IOS hasn't been doing all along. On the other, I don't think people expect this behavior from a desktop OS.
But unless there is a keylogger, or outright redirecting of network traffic you can get around it by using software you trust, and don't use a Microsoft account, just a local one.

[brainwreck]

Originally Posted by Joaquins Void

One the one hand, they are not doing anything Android and IOS hasn't been doing all along. On the other, I don't think people expect this behavior from a desktop OS.
But unless there is a keylogger, or outright redirecting of network traffic you can get around it by using software you trust, and don't use a Microsoft account, just a local one.

The thing with privacy on phones and mobile os's is that users really don't have much choice in the matter. You either get Android or IOS, because that is what the oem's install (and lock down in many cases). If you are lucky, or tech savvy, you have a phone that can at least be flashed with a rom that better respects privacy. If not, tough.

In the phone arena, we see what big companies will do when they can get away with it, being that users have less freedom to choose their os.

For the desktop, the choices are better. There is a wide range of linux and bsd distributions to choose from that will run on most pc's, as long as the user is tech savvy enough to install and configure a new os.

But Microsoft seems to be playing a user dependency card in their latest move to open up users' personal data for the taking on the desktop. Most desktop users have always used Windows, our devices were manufactured to work with Windows, and the software we use was written to run on Windows. Windows users are essentially locked in, because Windows has been installed on pc's by default for many years (a monopoly). If a user thinks of moving away from Windows, he must consider learning a new os, finding out if his hardware will work as expected with the new os, finding new software equivalents to what he is used to running on Windows, and backing up his data to use with the new os. The gamble on Microsoft's part is that users will take the path of least resistance.

Where Windows used to be only a closed source os, it is now a closed source os that harvests data from users, like plucking dumb turnips from the ground to make a buck, just like the Google's of the tech world.