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12-21-2011, 01:45 AM
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#81
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixelshock
I don't agree. I installed Studio One Ver2 last week and gave it a spin. It's very nice. I'm not switching from Reaper, but it definitely gives any commercial DAW a run for it's money. Sound on Sound apparently thinks so as well in this month's issue with a full review.
I NEVER said I couldn't work with Reaper or that it is "ugly". It's my DAW of choice and I'm not switching. I love the program. I'm saying it's not finished. And those unfinished parts hurt the perceived value of the program for potential new users or getting other DAW users to switch sides. I'm in NO way a Reaper hater. I recommend the app constantly to other musicians.
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I wasnt actually referring to you - I tangled with a couple of folks recently over design issues & it was them I was referring to.
Further down in this thread someone refers to UI design as a "hard" discipline and I certainly have been getting the distinct impression from most of the posts from UI designers that THEY think we should be forced into having some kind of uber-GUI concept thrust upon us that conforms to the *rules* of good design, whatever they are.
Me? I didn't make the rules, I just break 'em.
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12-21-2011, 01:53 AM
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#82
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixelshock
I don't agree. I installed Studio One Ver2 last week and gave it a spin. It's very nice. I'm not switching from Reaper, but it definitely gives any commercial DAW a run for it's money. Sound on Sound apparently thinks so as well in this month's issue with a full review.
I NEVER said I couldn't work with Reaper or that it is "ugly". It's my DAW of choice and I'm not switching. I love the program. I'm saying it's not finished. And those unfinished parts hurt the perceived value of the program for potential new users or getting other DAW users to switch sides. I'm in NO way a Reaper hater. I recommend the app constantly to other musicians.
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Forgot to ask: Did you demo the Artist version or the full deal?
I bought Studio One Artist and was dismayed by how long it took to load even a tiny project and that there was no VST support unless you paid out the full£200 for Pro. As I worked with it some more, I just got totally turned off by how it worked (or didn't, in many cases)until I decided to just scrap it and spend the time I was wasting on it exploring Reaper more.
Back on topic and assuming the devs keep themselves focussed on improving functionality, bug-blattering AND a GUI overhaul (maybe just expanding what can be done with WALTER) I'll be happy to see growth continue at a slow steady pace.
The current global economic situation was brought about largely by everyone wanting unbridled growth at the expense of everything else.
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12-21-2011, 05:16 AM
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#83
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data
I remember by the time I left Cubase, you could alter the main GUI from a very light blue to a light blue; Dunno what you can do today. And Vegas or Acid ... Oh well...
-Data
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I hear you. Valid point.
The context was the thread speculating (on topic) at various reasons for some of the not so good perceptions of others, not reinforcing the good perceptions of people who are already fully on board so... kinda two different things.
Obviously... current happy users don't have to be more convinced to give it a longer look to see if they want to use it, or to change their perception about it ... they already use it, and they already have a positive perception of it.
But if you're attempting to figure out why some others may perceive it differently - or not view it like you do, or not give it a really fair shot early on - you kinda have to put your own perceptions aside, at least temporarily.
"I don't personally care how the X window's look..." doesn't really address why someone else may stop demoing it a wee bit too early because maybe they do... and form their perception based on that. It only suggests that they should think just like you do.
Not "you" specifically Mr. Data of course.
The above all assumes the actual point of the thread was to try to figure out how to maybe change some "not quite correct" perceptions, not just to dismiss any other perception and/or only reinforce the good ones.
Obviously, if you don't actually personally care what other people think about it one way or another, the whole thread becomes completely irrelevant for you. If you do care, or just want to contribute, figuring out why they think that way is a good start.
Sure, marketing is part of it but not the only part of it.
Last edited by Lawrence; 12-21-2011 at 05:54 AM.
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12-21-2011, 06:56 AM
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#84
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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A final word from me as my thoughts coalesce on this one.
Most of the reasons I hear for newbs not taking to Reaper are far more about the excessively large number of options and the sometimes unfamiliar names given to previously familiar things.
From my point of view, I think it is far more important for someone (us the devs whoever) to come up with settings templates of some sort to ease people more gently into the Reaper way of doing things.
I honestly don't believe that a supposely ugly gui is what puts off most new users/try-ers, so much as not having a clue where to find things or how to do them.
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12-21-2011, 08:12 AM
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#85
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 302
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Out of curiosity, why is it so important for many people to have their preferences validated by others? Why do so many feel inferior because they use Reaper instead of any other DAW? Do we really need to care if Reaper is the most popular DAW or not?
Why don't we try to escape from the "brand" game, as it really is bringing us all down, not up. Reaper is just a tool that some prefer, some don't. It is what it is and does what it has to do for me and many others. If it doesn't work for others, there are no shortages of great DAW softwares to choose from. In the end, it is rather stupid to judge a craftsman by his tools and not his works.
While I'm at it, why do so many feel that they have to be disciples for Reaper? Cockos doesn't pay me to market their product, I pay them to use it. That is the extent of our relationship, and I am sure both sides are more than content. The world is too full of people trying to push their religions, political ideas, product preferences, brand associations and just about everything else onto other people, and all it really does is push them away. People can make up their own minds on what to use just like we can. In that way, if Reaper does become the most popular DAW it will not be because of some debatable propaganda, but because Cockos sincerely earned it.
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12-21-2011, 09:50 AM
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#86
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I hear you. Valid point.
The context was the thread speculating (on topic) at various reasons for some of the not so good perceptions of others, not reinforcing the good perceptions of people who are already fully on board so... kinda two different things.
Obviously... current happy users don't have to be more convinced to give it a longer look to see if they want to use it, or to change their perception about it ... they already use it, and they already have a positive perception of it.
But if you're attempting to figure out why some others may perceive it differently - or not view it like you do, or not give it a really fair shot early on - you kinda have to put your own perceptions aside, at least temporarily.
"I don't personally care how the X window's look..." doesn't really address why someone else may stop demoing it a wee bit too early because maybe they do... and form their perception based on that. It only suggests that they should think just like you do.
Not "you" specifically Mr. Data of course.
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I personally care a lot about what a UI looks like (and I know you know your last quote wasn't by me ). If it's not easy on the eye to me and there is no way to change this, I won't use it (at least not intensively). I suspect many people decide in the first few minutes, whether they "like"t to use the software or not, may it be the user interface, the organization of menus or something that might be even more related to the actual things their program should do.
But back to topic. I think one (not the only one though - a few others have been mentioned already) reason for Reaper not being "top notch" is the way MIDI is implemented. To me (and I can only speak for myself, of course) using Reaper's MIDI editor is a pain and terribly unintuitive, but I had (other) problems with Cubase's MIDI editor as well, which might in both cases be my dumbness not to find the right settings. Cubase's MIDI implementation (in terms of possibilities) is IMO by all means top notch. My favorite examples are its "Logical Editor" and the ability to apply different quantizations to every note for easier drum editing. But we all know Steinberg can look back on a 25-30 year history of developing MIDI software whereas Reaper's main goal still is in the audio area.
-Data
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12-21-2011, 10:27 AM
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#87
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 600
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People are still wondering about Reaper?
Really?
This is too easy, and I wont take the bait, haha.
Happy Holidays, all - yay for Reaper 4!!
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12-21-2011, 11:27 AM
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#88
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 453
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There's no way Reaper will ever compete with the big boys if the devs don't sexy up the GUI a bit. I'm not talking about the main window GUI which I think is as good as any other DAW, but the secondary windows, plug interfaces etc.
Even in terms of usability. Readelay could be an amazing delay with a more user friendly interface. I know fancying up would increase the size of the download, but they should at least give the option to the customer of downloading the extra garphical stuff or whatever.
There's just no way I'll pop up a Reacomp in front of a customer. I'll lose credibility. They couldn't give two shits about the technicalities and awesomeness of a plug that looks like a spreadsheet. It's the first impressions that count with people that know nothing about music production.
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12-21-2011, 11:46 AM
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#89
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,221
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question. why is the above scenario different than when you hire another skilled tradesman to do some work? ie if you hired a tile layer to come put in a backsplash over your kitchen sink, would you care if his grout float was less than sparkling clean? or if a landscaper's shovel wasn't brand spanking new and clean?
i don't own a commercial studio so this is a legitimate question, not a test or a trick.
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12-21-2011, 12:00 PM
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#90
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym
question. why is the above scenario different than when you hire another skilled tradesman to do some work? ie if you hired a tile layer to come put in a backsplash over your kitchen sink, would you care if his grout float was less than sparkling clean? or if a landscaper's shovel wasn't brand spanking new and clean?
i don't own a commercial studio so this is a legitimate question, not a test or a trick.
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It's not right for people to judge software based on looks, but it's reality. No sense pretending it's not the case.
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12-21-2011, 01:18 PM
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#91
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal, Qc
Posts: 453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym
question. why is the above scenario different than when you hire another skilled tradesman to do some work? ie if you hired a tile layer to come put in a backsplash over your kitchen sink, would you care if his grout float was less than sparkling clean? or if a landscaper's shovel wasn't brand spanking new and clean?
i don't own a commercial studio so this is a legitimate question, not a test or a trick.
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Those aren't artistic jobs. Someone that comes to you for an artistic job generally has an artistic sense. So for them it matters.
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12-21-2011, 02:03 PM
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#92
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym
question. why is the above scenario different than when you hire another skilled tradesman to do some work? ie if you hired a tile layer to come put in a backsplash over your kitchen sink, would you care if his grout float was less than sparkling clean? or if a landscaper's shovel wasn't brand spanking new and clean?
i don't own a commercial studio so this is a legitimate question, not a test or a trick.
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It's all a question of what you think a given device should be looking like. We expect tools to look dirty, because that's how you can tell they've been used. Software isn't like that; we expect software to look sleek.
People draw conclusions, and it doesn't really matter whether the conclusions are wrong or not.
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12-21-2011, 02:59 PM
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#93
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 167
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Quote:
It's not right for people to judge software based on looks, but it's reality. No sense pretending it's not the case.,
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Oh so true. But it gets worse. And this isn't anything that we all don't know on a gut level about first impressions: We judge EVERYTHING on looks initially. From the people we ask out to the color of our guitars. And looks sometimes run a lot deeper than "the first peek".
To me, this "unfinished parts" problem is the single most glaring issue why Reaper is sometimes passed over in the leading DAW debate. I think the problem is compounded when you look at what people are doing with the software: They are sweating every tiny detail and remixing/reworking elements of songs to make sure it blows people away from the very first listen. Now take that same concept and apply it to your software GUI. That's how you win users over.
Someone mentioned why it's important for Reaper to expand or enjoy the same success as ProTools. Because success doesn't always mean "went to crap". Sometimes it can mean more money - and more development spending. That results in more features and more things the users want. How slick is that Melodyne integration inside the new Studio One? It's pretty damn slick. With success comes expanded feature sets that can blow you away. Not to mention it makes sure the company who makes your favorite software stays in business for a very long time. I hope Cockos makes bucket loads of money so they can keep doing great things.
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12-21-2011, 04:52 PM
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#94
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,221
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Quote:
Someone that comes to you for an artistic job generally has an artistic sense. So for them it matters.
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just for fun, this is the workshop of artist alexander calder:
Quote:
It's all a question of what you think a given device should be looking like. We expect tools to look dirty, because that's how you can tell they've been used. Software isn't like that; we expect software to look sleek.
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i dunno. looking over the softwares that i use the absolute most, more of them look like "windows classic 95 theme" than "word 2011" - the latter of which is the ultimate in how people can get carried away trying to be "sleek." in another novel, i will detail how much i hate that "ribbon" nonsense
just a quick list of some of my favorite softwares, all of which have very simple and decidedly not sleek guis. many of these softwares are considered better than most/all paid for competition:
foobar
filezilla
getdiz (ooh, white on blue!)
infrarecorder
abiword
microtorrent
windows explorer (with file tree and details list view)
vlc (suuuper windows 95 style menus)
paint.net
(vst plugin) andreas erson lazysnake, polyiblit, etc
reaper design non-sequitors aside, of course, i just always like to question the emphasis on sleekness out of caution. proceed, by all means, to help reaper look prettier, but be aware of potential consequences. yall are a smart bunch, you can do it.
i just get a little nervous when the goal becomes "placate the yahoos" - referring, of course, to the uninitiated backseat driving customer who may for some reason scoff at readelay.
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12-21-2011, 05:10 PM
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#95
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
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For me, it seems the "sleeker" a piece of software looks, the slower and inefficient it becomes. I don't want to waste time waiting for the screen to redraw. The interface could be made a bit friendlier and more consistent (Pro Tools has probably the most consistent GUI I've seen on a DAW) but that doesn't mean it has to become graphically intense.
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12-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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#96
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Golly gee...
Visually "improving" something like the tracklist (and the other grid screens) simply means "Not looking like an Excel Spreadsheet." and nothing more than that.
I'm not sure where all of these "heavy bloated graphics that slow redraw or bloat" would even be used for, or where they even currently exist in this same context anywhere else? So I'm generally wondering - in this context with those edit screens or dockers - what the heck some people are talking about.
I don't see any heavy graphics in the those screens in other applications like below... do you?
I don't see any heavy graphics in the trackist below either... do you?
So I'm really clueless what some people are talking about and how it even applies to any of those things. That last example could have used standard Windows Common Control buttons instead of those icons at the bottom of the list ... but it wouldn't look quite as good would it? Also, notice how the scrollbar there is not the standard windows control scrollbar?
So show me a major daw where one of those types of edit screens or docker panels has large bloated graphics and maybe I'll understand the concern.
Talking about this stuff is like herding cats , it runs all over the place, all directions, even when it's something really, really simplistic.
Last edited by Lawrence; 12-21-2011 at 06:43 PM.
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12-21-2011, 11:17 PM
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#97
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Golly gee...
Visually "improving" something like the tracklist (and the other grid screens) simply means "Not looking like an Excel Spreadsheet." and nothing more than that.
I don't see any heavy graphics in the trackist below either... do you?
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The Reaper-y one is the only one of those I find easy to read the information on, funnily enough.
So much for one size fits all design....
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12-22-2011, 12:15 AM
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#99
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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What is the obsession with colours all the time?
I mean, I am quite happy to see whatever the majority of users like but I tend to use Reaper for making music rather than for art and industrial design appreciation classes. (grin)
And of course the other thing I always forget is that probably 90% of Reaper USERS don't post on here, so as with everything on the forum, it's just us lippy types giving the impression there is some sort of ground swell movement starting up in on direction or the other...
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12-22-2011, 12:18 AM
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#100
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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sonnie - just went and looked at your FR and having Reaper look like that would be a total turn off for me.
Personally, I find that really confusing to look at.
But I equally understand that you are asking for something that apparently several other users would like, so yeah - knock yourselves out, but PLEASE can it be optional like the WALTER stuff?
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12-22-2011, 03:12 AM
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#101
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Golly gee...
Visually "improving" something like the tracklist (and the other grid screens) simply means "Not looking like an Excel Spreadsheet." and nothing more than that.
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Oooo, Zing! Good one. Completely have to agree there.
It doesnt REALLY bother me...I dont think. But that pig could, in fact, use some lipstick.
O.o
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12-22-2011, 05:12 AM
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#103
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif
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Oups, the search didn't show it to me. I am not alone...
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12-22-2011, 07:01 AM
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#104
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oslo
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiDis
Out of curiosity, why is it so important for many people to have their preferences validated by others? Why do so many feel inferior because they use Reaper instead of any other DAW? Do we really need to care if Reaper is the most popular DAW or not?
Why don't we try to escape from the "brand" game, as it really is bringing us all down, not up. Reaper is just a tool that some prefer, some don't. It is what it is and does what it has to do for me and many others. If it doesn't work for others, there are no shortages of great DAW softwares to choose from. In the end, it is rather stupid to judge a craftsman by his tools and not his works.
While I'm at it, why do so many feel that they have to be disciples for Reaper? Cockos doesn't pay me to market their product, I pay them to use it. That is the extent of our relationship, and I am sure both sides are more than content. The world is too full of people trying to push their religions, political ideas, product preferences, brand associations and just about everything else onto other people, and all it really does is push them away. People can make up their own minds on what to use just like we can. In that way, if Reaper does become the most popular DAW it will not be because of some debatable propaganda, but because Cockos sincerely earned it.
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This.
Interesting thread, guys. Thanks!
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12-22-2011, 07:59 AM
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#105
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
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I know two women.
Woman #1 fine as wine, stop traffic, drop dead gorgeous, takes your breathe away just gazing at her. High maintenance, rather pretentious, self-centered and very much aware all eyes are always on her and makes a show as a result.
Woman #2 well she's alright, actually a bit and the ugh side, some might say downright hideous. Great time, funny make me laugh, easy to get along with, nice personality.
Woman #1 when we're having sex it's all about oh don't muss my hair, unresponsive, not actually very good sex. When it's oral sex time she plays about pulls out the pubes, it uncomfortable and frustrating, normally I just end up saying "know what, forget about it."
Woman #2 When it comes to sex any type, she rolls the eyeballs back in my head, I'm screaming, beggin' don't stop. The kind of sex wet dreams and fantasy is about.
Question: Where you gonna go? Who you gonna see?
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12-22-2011, 09:48 AM
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#106
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras Keita
Question: Where you gonna go? Who you gonna see?
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Ghost Busters!
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12-22-2011, 10:14 AM
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#107
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras Keita
I know two women.
Woman #1 fine as wine, stop traffic, drop dead gorgeous, takes your breathe away just gazing at her. High maintenance, rather pretentious, self-centered and very much aware all eyes are always on her and makes a show as a result.
Woman #2 well she's alright, actually a bit and the ugh side, some might say downright hideous. Great time, funny make me laugh, easy to get along with, nice personality.
Woman #1 when we're having sex it's all about oh don't muss my hair, unresponsive, not actually very good sex. When it's oral sex time she plays about pulls out the pubes, it uncomfortable and frustrating, normally I just end up saying "know what, forget about it."
Woman #2 When it comes to sex any type, she rolls the eyeballs back in my head, I'm screaming, beggin' don't stop. The kind of sex wet dreams and fantasy is about.
Question: Where you gonna go? Who you gonna see?
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Rewire for 3some?
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12-22-2011, 11:00 AM
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#108
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras Keita
Woman #2 When it comes to sex any type, she rolls the eyeballs back in my head,
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You wanna watch it with rolling eyeballs. Some people say they can get stuck if your not careful!
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12-22-2011, 02:37 PM
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#109
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
The Reaper-y one is the only one of those I find easy to read the information on, funnily enough.
So much for one size fits all design....
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Add the ability to remove columns and the ability to colour the rows based on the track colour(optional). Also the ability to remove the grid-lines...
That way people could show only what they want - like I only want to see track name, colour and TCP/MCP for most of my projects. Isn't perfect but would help until the dev's decided to redesign this.
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12-22-2011, 04:00 PM
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#110
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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List of UI improvement ideas
Here is a list of some UI improvement ideas. Many of these are are already proposed elsewhere. But I think it is a good idea to list at least some of these ideas here. This list shows that the problems and improvement ideas are not only related to colors. Actually, in my opinion the problems are much more related to the layout of different elements in the UI and the inefficient use of screen real estate.
So, here is the list of ideas.
Create window layouts that don't waste screen real estate.
One example is a horizontally thin media explorer layout optimized for right or left side docker. Problems in current layouts are illustrated very well here by Lawrence: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=159
Optimize MIDI editor layout for docking in the bottom docker. Several elements could be optimized there. - Optionally hide MIDI editor toolbar. Or move toolbar to the left side of piano keys.
- Option to set default vertical zoom of piano roll smaller.
- Move channel selector, note name and time fields from top to bottom of the MIDI editor window.
Or move all controls to the left side of piano keys.
- Piano keys are too wide. Let user control key size by dragging the border between keys and note area.
- Similar ideas are shown in this FR: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=63041
Use descriptive symbols. For example there is no need to use space wasting table column headers in Track Manager if symbols are used instead of text headers. Also using symbols in every row removes the need for unnecessary and slow "eye focus tracking" vertically to the column header.
Use colors to indicate content type. This is already implemented in parts of Project Bay. Similar ideas should be used also in other windows.
Use track color indicators in track manager. Makes it easier to find tracks, allows grouping, and enables quick mental linking between different windows like arrange/tcp/mcp.
Use smaller scroll bars for example in Track manager. Default OS scroll bars waste too much space.
Use smaller window borders/margins. Is it a bug that track manager has large borders? Project Bay is quite good because it does not have borders at all. Fx Browser has "middle sized" borders.
If text is needed instead of symbols then use short and to the point texts in buttons/controls/labels/menus. For example filter field of the FX browser can not be used properly if FX browser is docked to left/right side docker and docker is resized to a compact horizontally thin size. The filter text entry field becomes too small because of space wasting button texts. One solution could be to change "Clear filter" text to only "Clear", shrink the button and tie the button visually to the filter text entry field. Also the "OK" button could be shrunk at the same time.
Integrate controls from separate windows to most commonly used UI areas. All integrated controls could be "ripped out" of the integrated UI if user prefers to use floating windows. - Nudge window could be integrated to transport bar. This would reduce unnecessary window clutter.
- MIDI editor's track/item list should be separate from the Filter window and integrated to the piano roll view.
- Quantize window could be integrated to the piano roll view. Maybe to the left side of piano keys. User should be able to easily show/hide the integrated quantize panel. This makes it possible to save space when needed. And user could also easily change which tools/controls are shown in the left side area.
Tab labels in the left and right side dockers could be moved to the top of the docker. Current vertical tab labels in the far left/right side of screen are wasting too much screen real estate. In many cases users like to limit the width of left and right side dockers to as small as possible. Thus the UI elements in those dockers should not waste any horizontal space. There is much more free space in vertical direction in those dockers. Tab label texts like "FX Browser", "Track Manager" and "Project Bay" may not fit to the top of the docker but the solution again is to use symbols and maybe full text could be shown in tooltips.
jnif
Last edited by jnif; 12-22-2011 at 11:58 PM.
Reason: typo fixes
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07-03-2015, 12:07 AM
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#111
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
It's because they think it's free!
Pro studios are slaves to customers expectations. A studio I've used, which specialises in film work, was perfectly happy with Nuendo, which is no toy, but, with great reluctance, they dumped it in favour of Pro Tools, because Pro Tools is what their corporate customers expected them to use.
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Just rediscovered Samplitude Pro X2 which I had the opportunity to purchase for less than $209.00. Used some previous consumer versions of their Samplitude and found them a bit iffy, Pro X2 however seems excellent so far, it ever has what MAGIX refers to as A "Hybrid (dual) Audio Engine.. Eat that AVID..
After purchasing our new HP Z 640 workstation as part of our > $25K Hard/software project studio upgrades, I was "flabbergasted" to discover that Reaper, during my brief attempt to configure it on the new Z-640 (win 10 is around the corner), suffered a .05 sec MIDI lag which is completely unacceptable for me. Likewise "BlowTools" 11, which has been substantially upgraded still leaves me feeling like I'm dancing with THE German lard assed Fraulein from Hell, wearing steel toed Nazi boots. The frequent Looooong loading times, "required" reboots, lack of VST 3, VCR and surround support, etc, etc, etc (and then some), simply drives me crazy, a "mental state" I don't which to suffer from anymore since i need to get my work done, shall we say, more promptly. Besides I guess I'm not really a good enough fan in regards to AVID's specifications as to what "Industry standard" really is. i do know one thing however, with MY workflow, it sure as Hell ain't what THEY say/think it is..
As part of my workflow demands is my "needs" to more or less retain all VI's and FX plugs UNTIL my project's completed, something quite possible with the Z-640, it's Two Xeon Six core CPU's, 48 GB ECC RAM, Two 1GB SSD's, DVD/BlueRay writer, AMD Firepro W7100 etc..
Sir Calle..
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BorsingStudios.com represents aspiring new talents on a budget by offering studio time/on-line marketing support in the true "spirit of Cockos".
Last edited by BorsingPhoto; 07-03-2015 at 12:23 AM.
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07-03-2015, 12:16 AM
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#112
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,008
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@boringphoto
1.) on hardware as you have stated, the expected reaper midi latency should not exceed 11-15 msec, so there must be something else very wrong.
2.) about your nazi shit : has the information already come to Fayetteville,TN, that the war is over ?
Quote:
THE German lard assed Fraulein from Hell, wearing steel toed Nazi boots.
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Last edited by Mink99; 07-03-2015 at 02:56 AM.
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07-03-2015, 12:24 AM
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#113
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 652
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cliché murica.
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07-03-2015, 01:06 AM
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#114
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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In order to find Fayetteville, you have to aim for Lynchburg and miss.
(directions I received when living in Nashville)
Your studio sounds like a very interesting venture, OP.
But 0.05sec delay in MIDI? I agree with the guy ahead of me something isnt right.
Mind you, in the grand scheme of things what is the real latency in Samp?
I have often wondered about Samp, but the entry price (normal price that is) and apparent low take-up in the pro-am market sorta put me off.
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07-03-2015, 01:23 AM
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#115
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 164
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LYNCHINGTIME?
Yes I agree, especially since I didn't have the same MIDI latency problem on my old HP 410-Y (AMD 6X, 16 GB RAM).. After a few recorded VI's however I couldn't record anything since it only "produced" a short burst of white noise once a second.. Still no matter how much I LOVE REAPER it cannot compete with any 64 bit (!) DAW with integrated Hybrid or dual Audio engine technology..
BTW, to some of the other more suspect Troll's or "Strange Fruit's" on here.. Sir Carl's born and EDUCATED IN SCHWEDEN so please zip your lips in regards to all the Southern "Bible trash" BS because I have nothing in common with Southern Lard ass "Organized Religious hate", or otherwise intellectual toilet worthy history, no matter how many MILES of ROPE they must have sold in Lynchburg or it's surrounding areas..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
In order to find Fayetteville, you have to aim for Lynchburg and miss.
(directions I received when living in Nashville)
Your studio sounds like a very interesting venture, OP.
But 0.05sec delay in MIDI? I agree with the guy ahead of me something isnt right.
Mind you, in the grand scheme of things what is the real latency in Samp?
I have often wondered about Samp, but the entry price (normal price that is) and apparent low take-up in the pro-am market sorta put me off.
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__________________
BorsingStudios.com represents aspiring new talents on a budget by offering studio time/on-line marketing support in the true "spirit of Cockos".
Last edited by BorsingPhoto; 07-03-2015 at 01:32 AM.
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07-03-2015, 04:14 AM
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#116
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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When I lived in Nashville back in the early eighties I had a conversation about the bigotry still prevalent in the USA with my neighbour, a delightful woman in most ways. She did make a rather telling point, which to a european emigre sort of made sense.
"You have to understand Ivan, my grandma owned slaves. This integration stuff is relatively new to the older folks round here"
Scary, but not half as scary as my experiences with Afrikaaners/Boers in S.A.
They are predominantly equal opportunity haters - if you arent one of them you are put on this earth the serve them, regardless of the colour of your skin, your religion or even your racial origins.
P.S. You could have probably found a less contentious simile than "still leaves me feeling like I'm dancing with THE German lard assed Fraulein from Hell, wearing steel toed Nazi boots"
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07-03-2015, 08:43 AM
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#117
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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BorsingPhoto, as a fellow humorist, I would recommend sticking to the facts of your DAW issue and maybe spend some private time working on your comedic timing and material to improve your "Public Laughter to Outrage Ratio" (PLOR). Comedy's a tough racket. Ask Joe Flesmycynzki, the comedian no one's ever heard of…
As for the MIDI lag, I believe you can compensate for any and all timing issues by setting a negative offset increment in the recording preferences area.
And again, as for why Reaper is so ignored in the greater commercial media: it's because sales people can't make a commission from selling it; nor music stores a profit. You have to buy it here, directly, from its creators. No franchises; no middlemen; no TV commercials and glossy brochures—no false advertising. Just a good DAW for way cheap.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to practice my pie-throwing technique.
Last edited by Kundalinguist; 07-03-2015 at 09:09 AM.
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07-03-2015, 09:30 AM
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#118
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 972
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Just jumping in here... haven't read the thread.
I find that Reaper usually IS mentioned in "Our product works with" lists. Things like MuLab, are not.
That speaks volumes.
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07-03-2015, 04:45 PM
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#119
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,696
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The product name. Surely one of the worst product (and company) names ever. Cockos Reaper sounds an awful lot like the Grim Reaper of erectile functionality, the DAW of impotence!!!
Right up there with the sh1t audio company, oh Schiit sorry.....
http://schiit.com/
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07-03-2015, 04:54 PM
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#120
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Bullschiit.
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