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04-04-2011, 04:56 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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Vocal melody idea tool?
Wondering if theres some sort of something I can use to come up with some vocal melodies. No matter how hard I try, I tend to follow the chord progressions like black sabbath garage band type stuff. Pretty annoying. Anyway are there any tools or gizmos that maybe, you could put in chord progression, or just one chord, and it will think up a vocal melody?
Doesn't have to be vocal specific, just maybe some tool to help get an idea for either phrasing or notes. But i guess it would kinda have to have them saved, so you can run over it and practice wwith it and save that melody..
eh, Idk, anything that may help? Payware or freeware....
Thank you,
~Rob.
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04-04-2011, 05:19 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 80
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I don't have any tools like that, but it might help to try writing a song acapella and then making the music around it instead.
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04-04-2011, 05:31 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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So maybe it will help if you can identify which part bugs you (phrasing or choice of note)... Do you feel you follow too closely to the rhythm that is already there (IE: Phrasing) or is it the pure choice of exactly which notes to choose or both?
Identifiying which and working on one or the other separately is a great start. For example, if it were the phrasing/timing you don't like, practice by never starting a phrase on a dominant beat. Good melody lines IMHO tend to weave with the main beat (exceptions abound). For example, start on the "and" of 1 or the 2 or similar. If it were pitch related, I might try choosing only notes from chords instead of scales. This causes one to choose intervals instead of consecutive pitches. You will instantly notice this if you start learning vocal melodies on guitar and notice how that tends to be the rule. Voice leading is another, find a note that is in the chord your are coming from that also exists in the chord you are going to. Finally call and return, the melody will sit nicely if it is answering some other instrument or vice versa. Just some quick thoughts.
Karbo
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 04-04-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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04-04-2011, 05:35 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Watford Ontario
Posts: 7
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melodies.
PG Music's Band In A Box, can compose melodies from chords, also can compose chord progressions, solos, in a huge variety of styles.
Check out their website.
http://www.pgmusic.com/index.html
I've been using it for years. Make great backing tracks with it.
Andrew
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04-04-2011, 05:38 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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Yes! i just picked up the starting on the "and" thing tonight, I always used to start on the first beat, which made it sound really weird and robotic. And now i find that the start of the second phrase mimics the first one soo close, actually almost exact, it sounds boring...
Sounds like you know what your talking about, I can tell..
~Rob.
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04-04-2011, 05:42 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq
Yes! i just picked up the starting on the "and" thing tonight, I always used to start on the first beat, which made it sound really weird and robotic. And now i find that the start of the second phrase mimics the first one soo close, actually almost exact, it sounds boring...
Sounds like you know what your talking about, I can tell..
~Rob.
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You are the man Rob! I only know from the pain man, oh the pain So many years of wondering how the hell they do it. Run with that for a few days listening to other great melodies, you'll probably notice a whole new world of stuff to try out. The good ones always seem to compliment the rhythm instead of follow it. You can even practice when singing along to the radio by shifting the existing melody line 1 or 1/2 beat to the right or left etc, its a bit of a brain twister but very worthwhile practice. Think row, row, row your boat.
Karbo
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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04-04-2011, 05:49 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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The thing is, finding the patterns.. Its hard when you don't know what techniques to look out for... well connecting the dots and saying HEY thats this technique....
But yeah, my fav singer don dokken does that starting on and thing A LOT.. I was absolutely horrified, when I found that he does this constantly...
Its so weird seeing patterns in this stuff like... wow THAT WAS PLANNED.!!!
And I find that I dont know any vocal phrasing "riffs", so i rely a LOT on pitch to take the empty position that phrasing isnt taking up.. I'm just NOW realizing that learning the vocal stuff is just like playing an instrument like guitar.... but making the connections is still a bit hard to see...
There's soo many freaking gimmick vocal stuff out there tooo ughhhhh. Learn to sing in 2 minutes.. Its the writing of the vocal parts that I need, not the doing it lol ...
I'm not the kind of guy to have FUN with music... I think its something serious.. I think its there to convey a message, and its like a diary of your life.... there's songs i've done when I was 15 that I could never even re-create at this age..etc..... I like the technical aspects of things.....
~Rob.
Last edited by junioreq; 04-04-2011 at 05:55 PM.
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04-04-2011, 05:51 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq
The thing is, finding the patterns.. Its hard when you don't know what techniques to look out for... well connecting the dots and saying HEY thats this technique....
But yeah, my fav singer don dokken does that starting on and thing A LOT.. I was absolutely horrified, when I found that he does this constantly...
Its so weird seeing patterns in this stuff like... wow THAT WAS PLANNED.!!!
~Rob.
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I jammed with Don (and George) separately and on separate occassions years ago. One of the tunes I played with Don was Alone Again, and yes he sounded exactly like he does on the record; made my jaw drop. One of the smoothest voices that man has.
Karbo
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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04-04-2011, 05:56 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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Pshhh, when I met him, he wouldn't stop talking and was drunk lol... But his chest was resonating, I swear I could see the sound waves coming off it.. hahah
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04-04-2011, 06:10 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junioreq
Pshhh, when I met him, he wouldn't stop talking and was drunk lol... But his chest was resonating, I swear I could see the sound waves coming off it.. hahah
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Same here, talking his ass off but he did sing like a bird. The drummer was worse though. Total hollywood dude. George was the exact and polar opposite, reserved, more serious and down to earth.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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04-04-2011, 06:12 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 1,091
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So yeah, dokken is the target.... Its very disappointing when your singing idol is someone of that caliber haha...
~Rob.
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04-04-2011, 06:59 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Lucas, TX, USA (via Luleå, Sweden)
Posts: 2,008
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One thing I do is write lyrics separately from the music.
I don't mean "I've finished the music, now I'll go work on some lyrics to it." I mean writing lyrics totally independently, such as keeping a book of lyrics/poetry that I work on all the time, whether I have a tune in mind or not.
Then when I have a good match of lyrical mood to musical mood, I fit the lyrics into the music. I almost always end up weaving them in and out of the groove of the musical phrasing to make them fit the length of the verse/chorus/whatever.
__________________
Best Regards, Ernie "lunker" Lundqvist
BDSM (Bad Dog Studio Musicians)
Windows 10 running on Z390 + i7-8700
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04-04-2011, 07:03 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunker
One thing I do is write lyrics separately from the music.
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That's a good one. I really need to work on that. Thanks for the reminder and tip.
Karbo
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
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04-04-2011, 08:23 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 506
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Connecting with the intent of the lyrics, the emotion, the story to tell, etc, and let that guide you.
Often the phrasing is within the lyrics and it pushes different rhythmic and tonal ideas out quite effortlessly. Not saying I'm a gun songwriter but Ive been very pleased with some of the results by letting the song have its way rather than vice versa.
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04-04-2011, 10:09 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,436
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I am no expert but I also noticed this in many interesting (to my ears) pieces of music. Rhythms of different instruments (and vocal is an instrument) are always compliment each other, jumping around beats, changing accents...Personally, only then I find a piece listenable for many, many times because it doesn't bore me. I noticed this a long time ago for the first time with a band called tool, I could have listened for hours to them, just listening to things interchange and fluctuate
when I saw this topic and discussion on rhythm I remember this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
It may not be connected to singing directly but he discuses many interesting topic, one of them is rhythm and offbeats
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04-04-2011, 11:11 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 164
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Try getting the melodyne demo, record yourself in monotone, then play with the notes in melodyne. When you are finished, sing along with the resulting melody.
Amazing!
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