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05-16-2012, 07:04 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 241
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Will ARA (Melodyne) be implemented in the future?
Just curious about that... the search function does not help this time.
I've read somewhere, that Reaper Devs are working on it...!?
However, ARA implementation would be great!
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05-16-2012, 07:23 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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ARA is going to be Studio One-only for a bit more, I think, but Cockos is in negotiations with Melodyne and Presonus about licencing it.
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05-16-2012, 07:31 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
ARA is going to be Studio One-only for a bit more, I think, but Cockos is in negotiations with Melodyne and Presonus about licencing it.
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I hope so... it's quite a cool integration!
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05-16-2012, 10:41 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Itajaí - Santa Catarina - Brasil
Posts: 452
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I hope so... it's quite a cool integration! (2)
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05-16-2012, 11:21 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Cockos is in negotiations with Melodyne and Presonus about licencing it.
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Oh cool! How do you know?
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05-16-2012, 11:24 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A metropolitan bubble
Posts: 1,126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Cockos is in negotiations with Melodyne and Presonus about licencing it.
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Gotta say this worries me a bit. What would happen to the Cockos licensing system (and price ) that we all know and love so much?
__________________
"All the violence done to words is so vile that one can hardly bear to hear them any longer." - Adorno and Horkheimer
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05-16-2012, 11:45 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Why...here of course
Posts: 20
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I doubt the REAPER fee would be effected.
The whole idea of using ARA is to integrate Melodyne (for now) more closely into the host. The close integration will more than likely make you want to upgrade to the full Melodyne (like I did with Studio One)... so it's a win on the cash front for Celemony.
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05-16-2012, 11:46 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysarchus
Gotta say this worries me a bit. What would happen to the Cockos licensing system (and price ) that we all know and love so much?
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I'm sure it won't be part of the standard price and would be an add-on. It's in celemony's interest to have as many DAWs with ARA to give it the advantage over it's competition (I would imagine)
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05-16-2012, 12:11 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by run, megalodon
Oh cool! How do you know?
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Schwa said some time ago they are investigating the possibilities and that they find the technology interesting (I'm paraphrasing it a bit).
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05-16-2012, 12:26 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Schwa said some time ago they are investigating the possibilities and that they find the technology interesting (I'm paraphrasing it a bit).
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thanks.
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05-16-2012, 12:50 PM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We contacted Celemony about ARA. They told us that it will not be available to anyone but Presonus until January at the earliest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
We haven't seen the API so I could have this wrong, but ideally ARA is just a protocol for more complete host/plugin communication, not specifically having to do with Celemony and pitch correction. REAPER already has functionality like this for its own plugins and extensions (for example, how the MIDI editor communicates with the arrange view/playback).
[edit: watching the ARA marketing video, you can see that it's extremely similar to how the MIDI editor works in REAPER.]
New protocols are hard to get established, but assuming the API is sensible and they are completely open with it (big assumptions, but if they really want this thing to work it's the only way), it could become widely used, because they are starting with enough of a foothold in the market to create demand for it.
We'll have to wait to see the API, but if I am understanding all of this right, our incentive would not be just supporting their plugin. It would be supporting any plugin (including ReaTune) that wants to use the protocol. That is a much better incentive than just supporting one plugin.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Again with the assumption that the API is sensible and they are completely open with it, it could open the possibility of sample editor plugins, MIDI editor plugins, etc. All of that would be good for everyone. We'll definitely be disappointed if ARA is not sensible and open!
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Voices from the past... http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=89805
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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05-16-2012, 01:34 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Very nice, thank you, Mercado.
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05-17-2012, 05:00 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 501
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I dont think Reaper can because AFAIK the Studio One implementation of ARA uses the VST3 version of Melodyne. Reaper gots no VST3s...
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Intel i5-2500K | MSI Mobo | 12 Gigs RAM | Win 10 Pro x64 | Reaper x64 | Studio One v3.5 x64
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05-17-2012, 05:04 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 4,596
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its VST3 & VST2,but they implemented VST3 only
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02-28-2013, 03:58 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Just bumping this as I know a few people who recently took advantage of the crazy update price for the full melodyne so to see ARA in reaper would be amazing!
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03-01-2013, 05:53 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Manchester
Posts: 282
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I would really love to see this functionality in Reaper.
I have been using the audio to midi functions in Ableton, but I would rather use Reaper and would love to see audio pitch and midi conversion in Reaper.
To be able to move notes in the audio is already in many DAWS so the tech is available.
Devs please look into this.
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03-01-2013, 06:34 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modular
I would really love to see this functionality in Reaper.
I have been using the audio to midi functions in Ableton, but I would rather use Reaper and would love to see audio pitch and midi conversion in Reaper.
To be able to move notes in the audio is already in many DAWS so the tech is available.
Devs please look into this.
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Please keep in mind that ARA is just an implementation of an additional host<->plugin protocol. It does not do any audio processing as such. To use the ARA enabled Melodyne in Reaper, you have to have a paid license for the appropriate Melodyne version.
Nothing would of course prevent Cockos from for example making a separate deal with Celemony concerning Melodyne (to allow rebates for Reaper users etc), but that is in no way implied or required by Cockos implementing ARA in Reaper.
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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03-01-2013, 07:41 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,153
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Just curious as to what ara brings over how it is now?
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03-01-2013, 07:49 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 344
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I doubt that com’s between Reaper and Melodyne are good. Melodyne doesn’t work 100% on Reaper as it stands, with some strange window behaviour on MacBook.
It works well on Tracktion though..
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03-01-2013, 07:52 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Minneaplis
Posts: 3,317
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I don't think cockos is willing to do anything with a 3rd party. Unless ARA is completely free and open in every way, I predict we will NEVER see it in reaper. Even if celemony was like "yeah we charge a licensing fee of 0.31 cents" - you will never see it in Reaper.
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03-01-2013, 10:07 AM
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#21
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
I don't think cockos is willing to do anything with a 3rd party.
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Cockos is constantly doing things with many third parties. Look at Elastique, for example.
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03-01-2013, 10:37 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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And Rewire and blah blah blah
Cockos do work with closed 3rd parties if really needed, but Justin is very vocal about not being too happy about it hahahaha (Can't blame him, when and if Reaper ever goes open source, a lot of stuff will need removing)
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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03-01-2013, 10:43 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
I don't think cockos is willing to do anything with a 3rd party. Unless ARA is completely free and open in every way, I predict we will NEVER see it in reaper. Even if celemony was like "yeah we charge a licensing fee of 0.31 cents" - you will never see it in Reaper.
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Well that's wrong, LOL, because Cockos has already contacted Celemony about ARA.
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03-01-2013, 10:46 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
I don't think cockos is willing to do anything with a 3rd party. Unless ARA is completely free and open in every way, I predict we will NEVER see it in reaper. Even if celemony was like "yeah we charge a licensing fee of 0.31 cents" - you will never see it in Reaper.
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Cockos already does several things with 3rd party APIs/SDKs, including non-open ones...
There's no licensing fee for ARA. The SDK just is insanely complicated for what it does, so it isn't really that weird Cockos hasn't done ARA support for Reaper yet. There's also the thing that Melodyne is currently the only plugin I know of, that leverages ARA, so there might not be a very strong business case for Cockos to hurry implementing it. I myself had some plans to try doing ARA based plugins myself, but bumped into too many issues with the complexity in the ARA API, so I gave up for the time being. Also, Studio One is the only host currently that supports ARA, so on the plugin developers side there's a rather limited business opportunity too...
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
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03-01-2013, 01:32 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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For those who want to know what it brings, watch the left side video here
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=ara&L=0#top
The Celemony guys have stated on their forum that ARA has been available for some time for free but Xenakios is probably right on complexity or more DAWs might have added it buy now.
Quite a few people do own melodyne editor though so if Reaper can have ARA support it would be very powerful and a good additional reason for people to turn to reaper from other DAWs that don't support it.
If the devs can add it on an item basis (like in-line midi editing) then it would be great. I already use it as an item FX but to have it within the item display along side other tracks of melodyne would be amazing.
It would also allow it to take advantage of Reaper's buffering system so you don't have to have a high latency to use it!
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03-01-2013, 02:18 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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ARA will probably be stuck in "chicken vs. egg" limbo mode for some time because only one host supports it, so plugin mfgs maybe won't do anything with it, and hosts that already have pitch editing built in (Cubase, Sonar, DP, Logic) probably won't do it just for Melodyne,
It's in limbo kinda like VST 3. PreSonus is really the only company that can speed it up, by huddling with some other popular plugin mfgs to make other ARA versions, where that may be of benefit. I fully expect to see another ARA capable plug show up there at some point.
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03-01-2013, 02:22 PM
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#27
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian
I don't think cockos is willing to do anything with a 3rd party. Unless ARA is completely free and open in every way, I predict we will NEVER see it in reaper. Even if celemony was like "yeah we charge a licensing fee of 0.31 cents" - you will never see it in Reaper.
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Elastique cost a chunk and a half, but its in reaper!
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03-01-2013, 02:28 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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I think - mmv as usual - Cockos should adopt their open *.musicloop file format. That doesn't seem all that complex to implement being xml... and it's quite handy. It would be more handy if it existed in more than one DAW.
Anyway, fundamentally amd philosophically, Cockos and PreSonus software have much, much more in common than people think. They should collaborate on some things from each other, imo.
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03-01-2013, 02:53 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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It looks like it might be a lot of work, but I'd use it.
The only thing stopping me from buying and using Melodyne in REAPER is compatibility -and ARA would take it a whole paradigm shift beyond that.
The workflow is insanely clear and open between DAW timeline and plugin. After watching those videos and reading up on the whole "random access between DAW item and plugin" concept, if ARA is widely adopted it will make using plugins of this type by (eg) VST alone seem so clunky and outdated.
I hope it is widely adopted by DAWs, and I hope REAPER becomes one of those DAWs.
Personally I think it's beyond Justin. He can't cut it, it's too complex and too much work for him
-go on, prove me wrong dude!
>
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03-01-2013, 02:56 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Personally I think it's beyond Justin. He can't cut it, it's too complex and too much work for him
-go on, prove me wrong dude!
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Reverse psychology, awesome.
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03-02-2013, 03:10 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: On A Mountain Top
Posts: 342
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Really stoked on possible ARA implementation, but it's also fun learning some of the Reaper API stuff for external scripts.
As WhiteTie loves when I say "it's pretty neat".
-robo
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03-04-2013, 03:14 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 578
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I am torn on the idea of ARA
I love the idea of ARA implementation for quick and integrated Melodyne use; since I use Melodyne to polish vocal tracks.
But on the other hand, I see Melodyne as basically THE ONLY reason to implement ARA. No other plugins use it, and it is likely no new plugins will be created for ARA.
And since I only use Melodyne on vocal tracks, it seems like alot of extra work just for vocal tracks specifically. Even for Melodyne owners, I doubt many use Melodyne on their bass or guitar tracks. So while ARA and Melodyne "will work" on any audio source... This is basically a "vocals only" feature.
Even though ARA looks damn cool in Studio One with Melodyne integrated... It seems sort of a novelty aspect of Studio One.
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03-12-2013, 02:07 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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The work to support ARA is probably a lot less than the work to recreate the polyphonic pitch detection and audio-to-MIDI like was just added to Ableton 9.
I'd love to see it as native functionality eventually but there are so many other things that should probably be on the priority list.
BTW, does anyone know if any other DAWs support ARA other than Studio One, or even if Celemony has allowed other DAWs to implement it (seems its been Studio One only for a while now)?
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Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
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03-12-2013, 02:35 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumpm1
This is basically a "vocals only" feature.
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Not really. I use Melodyne for all kinds of stuff, like transcribing a poorly recorded bass track to midi, like duplicating guitar chords to piano, or pitch correcting or changing the melody of anything musical, not just vocals.
What makes ARA work so well in Studio One isn't just the easy offline audio tranfers, it's the deeper integration overall. It's a good bit more than a novelty feature.
Mmv on that as usual.
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03-12-2013, 03:56 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitchSlap
BTW, does anyone know if any other DAWs support ARA other than Studio One, or even if Celemony has allowed other DAWs to implement it (seems its been Studio One only for a while now)?
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AFAIK no other host implements it, but Celemony isn't preventing it in any way. Unless you count that the ARA API/SDK is very complicated and overengineered for the stuff it is meant to do...(I've had the SDK since last summer but have so far come to the conclusion my HourGlass app wouldn't gain enough additional value if it could host Melodyne as an ARA plugin, compared to the trouble it is to implement the ARA support. Likewise doing a plugin that relies on ARA isn't very attractive as it is so complicated, perhaps even more complicated than hosting an ARA plugin, and Studio One is the only ARA host I know about so far...)
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I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Last edited by Xenakios; 03-12-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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03-12-2013, 08:00 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 708
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Perhaps a version of Reaper with integrated Melodyne editor is worth $50 - $100 dollars more! It would be to me!
I'm still hoping that the team will tackle it after completing their work on MIDI...
Competitive MIDI editing plus integrated Melodyne = Reaper 5.
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03-12-2013, 11:24 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 168
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I'm sure the wizards at Cockos can tackle ARA!
Justin had confirmed that they are looking into ARA.
I know a lot of clients and composers that I work with, who absolutely love ARA and moved to StudioOne, just for this feature. Since StudioOne is still in it's infancy (haven't looked at the 2.5 update), with Reaper's slick performance, it could really stir up a storm in the DAW world!
Hopefully soon! Really waiting on this one!
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03-13-2013, 02:04 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 913
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I did not know about Elastique. Turns out almost everyone uses them:
http://www.zplane.de/index.php?page=...tion-elastique
Interesting. Sometimes it's less expensive and certainly more efficient to buy good technology with a SDK and integrate it into your softwawre. Been there, done.
Singing or playing on-pitch is so old fashioned today!
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03-13-2013, 02:50 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios
AFAIK no other host implements it, but Celemony isn't preventing it in any way.
Unless you count that the ARA API/SDK is very complicated and overengineered for the stuff it is meant to do...(I've had the SDK since last summer but have so far come to the conclusion my HourGlass app wouldn't gain enough additional value if it could host Melodyne as an ARA plugin, compared to the trouble it is to implement the ARA support.
Likewise doing a plugin that relies on ARA isn't very attractive as it is so complicated, perhaps even more complicated than hosting an ARA plugin, and Studio One is the only ARA host I know about so far...)
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I'm supposing that there's no point in designing an API to only just do what you want it to now with no framework for development. It's certainly ambitious for Melodyne, but I can see a big need for this kind of Random-access interface connection with plugins of this type.
Imagine the likes of Schwa's spectro or CEDAR or similar with this integration -ok I know this is a big leap of imagination, but everyone must have a plug or six in their arsenal that they have to play the signal through before use, which would benefit from it.
I know its a lot of work to get this far; just dreaming out loud...
>
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03-13-2013, 06:27 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Guys... re: some other DAWs not implementing it for Melodyne.
Cubase, Logic, DP, Sonar, PT, FL Studio (afaik) don't have realtime clip inserts like Reaper and Studio One. The users of those products who also own Melodyne and are clamoring for Melodyne ARA don't actually understand that part of it, that it runs that way in Studio One, as a realtime clip insert.
That's part of the reason why those DAWs likely won't implement it just for Melodyne, because it would still be limited compared to the S1 implementation. I'm fairly certain that you cannot do everything S1 does with Melodyne ARA from a track level insert.
Reaper is (imo, for that reason) the next most obvious choice to implement it in a host because it has real time clip inserts.
Aside from Reaper not having an actual audio editor window to embed or dock the Melodyne UI in (having VST 3 to use the windowing extensions they developed), and not having a combination media clip to show the midi notes on Melodyne'd clips like in S1 for easy "drag the Melo clip to a midi track to get the midi data from it", it could otherwise work pretty much exactly like it does in Studio One.
I haven't seen the SDK, and even if I had I probably wouldn't understand most of it, but I can't see ARA anything being of any great editing use (other than faster <> transfers) without clip based inserts.
Last edited by Lawrence; 03-13-2013 at 06:47 AM.
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