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11-20-2016, 01:09 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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i want that lush reverb of the '50s and '60s
a couple examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOpSDNBPepk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecz3LwWOZkI
i'm assuming these were plate reverbs, but can any plugin emulate these fabulous reverbs? i have the valhalla vintage verb plugin, but don't know where to begin to adjust the presets to get these great effects.
i'm probably tilting at windmills here, but any help would be greatly appreciated.
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11-20-2016, 02:28 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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The Waves Abbey Road Plate reverb, or the new Slate convolution verb might do the trick. You could also look for some free plate impulses to use in Reaper if you don't want to install or demo anything.
You could also try a tape plugin before/after Valhalla and make things mono.
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11-20-2016, 03:27 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 678
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I've got ok results with valhalla vintageverb and plate, but it takes some tweaking by ear. I prefer to have mono verbs for that and if you need stereo you can use two mono verb aux channels, one for left and one for right. Perhaps use spring verb (impulse or real) for another channel. The way I tweak the verb is listening it to snare sidestick or finger snap and trying to get that verb sound proper vintage, then it usually works pretty well with the rest.
Lateely I've actually used impulses from my own diy plate verb which is funky as hell, but quite a hassle to use. The impulses are enough for me, they sound pretty special but are very usable with eq.
Good vintage sounding tape delay can also help with those sounds. I happen to have real echolette e51 tube tape delay and it is endless vibe machine but you can get good sound from stuff like gsi watkat and it is a free plugin. Here'couple of examples from me. The sound is dryer and more 70s but maybe you get the idea
https://youtu.be/dlGwl8871_8
https://youtu.be/AcrX1PMOuVg
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11-20-2016, 07:26 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoss74
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These recordings were made in real spaces. No plate or Spring Reverb. Just an orchester in an excellent acoustic space. As a starting point: vintageverb on an Aux-Return. Use Ambience mode and start with the Preset Ambience. Make sends from all your instruments to the Verb, with a send level of around -20db or even lesser. Start with a Decay Time of 2 seconds. Listen and adjust Decay Timeand send levels to taste.
Greetings from Hamburg
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11-20-2016, 04:37 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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thanks for all the suggestions.
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11-20-2016, 05:53 PM
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#6
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: It changes
Posts: 1,425
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Hello.
I've also been trying to emulate some vintage reverb. Thus far I've mostly had to add layers of 2-3 different VST plugins. My aim was the reverb in Stairway to Heaven, which is not as vintage as what you're going for.
Anyway, in my quest I remember reading about tape artifacts occurring in the recording process that created various sounds in the end product. For example, when recording on tape, with sometimes limited material resources, there was a lot of rewinding and re-recording on the same portion of the tape. Sometimes the former recording could not be fully erased and some very low sounds would 'leak' into the new recorded tracks.
Some engineers would actually be OK with the leakage as it would add a 'little something' to the song, especially if it was in sync... Call me crazy, but since I learned that tid bit I think I can actually hear this going on in some old recordings, and it often comes in the form of reverb.
Isn't that something!
So what I've been doing to emulate this, is clone a track, slap an EQ and muffle the sound, then mix it back in at a very low volume with the original track. Sometimes I offset it a few milliseconds just because I think this would actually be more how it would naturally occur in the old days of rewinding/re-recording on top of a previous take.
Perhaps all this does not make a big difference and I could of simply played around with the EQ of the reverb plugin, but I do it because it's fun to try weird stuff.
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11-20-2016, 06:19 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDBOIS
Hello.
I've also been trying to emulate some vintage reverb. Thus far I've mostly had to add layers of 2-3 different VST plugins. My aim was the reverb in Stairway to Heaven, which is not as vintage as what you're going for.
Anyway, in my quest I remember reading about tape artifacts occurring in the recording process that created various sounds in the end product. For example, when recording on tape, with sometimes limited material resources, there was a lot of rewinding and re-recording on the same portion of the tape. Sometimes the former recording could not be fully erased and some very low sounds would 'leak' into the new recorded tracks.
Some engineers would actually be OK with the leakage as it would add a 'little something' to the song, especially if it was in sync... Call me crazy, but since I learned that tid bit I think I can actually hear this going on in some old recordings, and it often comes in the form of reverb.
Isn't that something!
So what I've been doing to emulate this, is clone a track, slap an EQ and muffle the sound, then mix it back in at a very low volume with the original track. Sometimes I offset it a few milliseconds just because I think this would actually be more how it would naturally occur in the old days of rewinding/re-recording on top of a previous take.
Perhaps all this does not make a big difference and I could of simply played around with the EQ of the reverb plugin, but I do it because it's fun to try weird stuff.
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that's an interesting idea. got any clips? and just messing around with the eq of the valhalla, i can change the effect up quite a bit. i think that was part of the vintage "english" reverbs. cut a lot of highs--and lows--from the wet signal.
as far as recent artists, i like the reverb that fleet foxes got on their recordings. not as vintage sounding as the '50s and '60s stuff, but pretty lush stuff regardless. especially the vocals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ5B...BAEFA4C6257B18
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11-20-2016, 06:57 PM
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#8
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: It changes
Posts: 1,425
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The only clip I have is a song I'm currently working on, and the vintage reverb can only be heard in the very beginning on the acoustic guitar. It's a tribute to the 70's VINTAGE type of power ballad/rock song genre. Not the hair band or heavy metal stuff, but the songs that had 'class'
I suggest you put a good headphone set and/or crank the volume up, because it is a very subtle effect... You need stereo to get to it.
Here is the URL of my song: https://soundcloud.com/rdbois/strwyhv02016
What you'll be hearing is the dry guitar on on the left (100%) and the reverb on the right (100%). I got the idea of left/right from Led Zeppelin... The reverb is offset a few milliseconds as if it is dragging it's feet, so to speak. Knowing this will make you hear it better! I really like this effect, because it gives the impression that the sound of the guitar is travelling across the room (from left to right) and bouncing of the wall before coming back to the listener (hence it is late on arrival).
While this reverb stays with the acoustic guitar for the entire song, you can't hear it all that much because so much more starts to happen on the right ear channel.
Do you know of the REVERB VST called KARMAFX? It's free and has some pretty nice presets, some vintage plates. I'm not an expert and can't compare with expensive plugins (I can't afford them), but KARMAFX does neat stuff for me...
http://free-plugin-list.com/plugin.php?id=109
Note: My song is just a demo that has not yet been properly mixed. It will have lyrics, electric guitar solo, and some female back vocals. It's going to be a heck of a sound party!!!
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11-22-2016, 01:13 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 108
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11-22-2016, 02:23 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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thanks guys. i wasn't looking for any more plugins, per se, but it is apparent that to get that old time reverb, i'd need a big room in the old capitol studios, etc.
took a left turn tonight anyway, and went for something more ambient/spacey. using a combo of valhalla vintage reverb, and their shimmer reverb (as well as some delay), i was able to come up with this sound.
the two lead guitars won't be part of the finished product. they were just in there for demos of the specific pickups.
https://app.box.com/s/tf3mjr63xuh7to4wgpxgi6j5f6ur8mse
Last edited by dmoss74; 11-25-2016 at 12:14 AM.
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11-23-2016, 08:30 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Royal Oak, Mi.
Posts: 38
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The Nat Cole track has beautiful reverb. I believe it was an actual reverb chamber, I.e. A big room with a speaker in one end and a mic at the other end. You might try that in your bathroom.
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11-24-2016, 05:35 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy
The Nat Cole track has beautiful reverb. I believe it was an actual reverb chamber, I.e. A big room with a speaker in one end and a mic at the other end.
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That could be the case, there were a few of them around in those days.
Quote:
You might try that in your bathroom.
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Heh heh, I don't think that would quite do the trick. They were big rooms, specially built for it.
A decent plate IR might get you there. There's also some decent free algo verbs around theses days.
I just got this one and it has some promising uses, although I haven't totally checked it out yet. I used it in a recent project and was pretty pleased with it.
https://www.kvraudio.com/product/ori...-denis-tihanov
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11-25-2016, 02:04 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy
The Nat Cole track has beautiful reverb. I believe it was an actual reverb chamber, I.e. A big room with a speaker in one end and a mic at the other end. You might try that in your bathroom.
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yeah, i don't think a small bathroom could do it. upon further research, i found out that the cole/shearing record was recorded at the capitol studio building in LA (the famous one). they had those cavernous echo chambers (designed by les paul himself) that were in the adjacent parking garage, and some of them being subterranean. same place that a lot of the old sinatra records (with equally lush reverb) were recorded.
i think i see a trend. a lot of the sounds i was hearing were done in those old studios (todd a o being another), and they were properly setup to get those naturally lush reverbs. it was--and still is--a great sound. i just don't think you can get that in a non-environmental reproduction anymore. even with the convolution reverbs.
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11-25-2016, 02:12 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP
I've got ok results with valhalla vintageverb and plate, but it takes some tweaking by ear. I prefer to have mono verbs for that and if you need stereo you can use two mono verb aux channels, one for left and one for right. Perhaps use spring verb (impulse or real) for another channel. The way I tweak the verb is listening it to snare sidestick or finger snap and trying to get that verb sound proper vintage, then it usually works pretty well with the rest.
Lateely I've actually used impulses from my own diy plate verb which is funky as hell, but quite a hassle to use. The impulses are enough for me, they sound pretty special but are very usable with eq.
Good vintage sounding tape delay can also help with those sounds. I happen to have real echolette e51 tube tape delay and it is endless vibe machine but you can get good sound from stuff like gsi watkat and it is a free plugin. Here'couple of examples from me. The sound is dryer and more 70s but maybe you get the idea
https://youtu.be/dlGwl8871_8
https://youtu.be/AcrX1PMOuVg
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those examples are very nice. more along the lines of stax and muscle shoals, but very nice, indeed. i know vintage verb is very useful, i just need to work with it more. i don't think it can replicate the old echo chambers, but it does what it does (like your stuff here) very well.
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11-25-2016, 03:56 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,388
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This is one of my favorite examples of reverb ever on top of an amazing vocal which doesn't hurt....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfgD3LJ6Xb8
Oh Yeah....great stuff
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11-25-2016, 04:31 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 749
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That is quite a different beast of Reverb. The OP is looking for a way to simulate the acoustics of the great recording studios of the 50 and 60, like Capitol Studio. That was before the arrival of multitrack recordings. More like doing a classical stereo recording in a great Concert Hall.
Your example is from an 8 Track Multitrack recording with artificial Reverb. Knowing that this was done in the old Wessex Studio, I assume this is done with a send to an Echo Chamber or an EMT Plate. Listening closer to the s-explosives I would assume an EQed send to a plate.
The difference is that in the OPs example all instruments are in the same space and mixed in (by?) the room. Anyway, one of my favourite albums of all times. Thank you for posting. Just putting the Vinyl on the record player. What was the name of that girl I was dating in 75? Lost in Memories. Perfect ending for this working week.
Greetings from Hamburg
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11-25-2016, 05:23 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,989
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You could use 5 mono reverbs, and pan them: one in the center, another two mid left and mid right, and next couple hard left and hard right.
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11-25-2016, 11:03 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer
You could use 5 mono reverbs, and pan them: one in the center, another two mid left and mid right, and next couple hard left and hard right.
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sounds daunting, but that's a good idea to try. thanks
and i get the concept (sort of), but is there some link to describe the routing? i'm curious to see how this would work.
Last edited by dmoss74; 11-27-2016 at 11:00 PM.
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11-26-2016, 02:27 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northants,UK
Posts: 195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavriloP
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These are great!! Lovin' Mystic and now checking out anything by Jimmy Bricks and the E Flats.. Thank you!
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11-26-2016, 02:30 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Illville - Germany
Posts: 972
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11-27-2016, 11:45 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer
You could use 5 mono reverbs, and pan them: one in the center, another two mid left and mid right, and next couple hard left and hard right.
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actually, i screwed around a little with that idea last night, but don't know if i have it right. here's a full slice mix, with various reverbs:
https://app.box.com/s/zw7z4nw6l74v3v1trh7sn64furwhtsvl
now this slice isolates the sax (panned left), which i fed to 5 separate aux channels of the same reverb. i panned like you said, and brought each send up to taste, and even made the full right side's pre delay at 40ms, with all the others at 20ms. this may be what you were describing, but i think all the individual reverb tracks were still stereo, and i just panned them left, mid left, center, mid right, and full right. it's a cool idea though. i'll have to screw around with it more.
https://app.box.com/s/jx7erecmvqa3tfyayxc8rdg68ati1amz
thanks
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