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11-12-2016, 02:39 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Reaper does not read "articulation" midi events?
Hey there everyone, first forum post for me.
I'm slowly advancing in home recording, and I found an obstacle in midi programming. As a premise, I'll say I didn't find an answer to my question in previous forum posts here or other Google searches. But I'm still a noob, so maybe I'm wrong.
I'm trying to get midi bass articulations by using the VST "Ample Bass PII". In this VST, articulation effects are not comprised in the midi map but triggered internally in the VST itself with specific midi events. For instance, you won't have the "slide effect" note to insert in your piano roll, but a "slide effect" midi note that will trigger the interested note, causing an effect on that. The trigger note is to be inserted before the note to trigger the effect while entering it, or during the note to trigger an exiting effect (example: entering slide or exiting slide).
In case I wasn't clear enough, here's an official demo video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo-gquQbxsw
I would need to simulate some bass slides, so by following the tutorial and VST manual I'm inserting the needed midi events as shown, but nothing happens.
What am I doing wrong? Is it user error or a function lacking in Reaper?
The official tutorial was shown in Cubase.
Edit: as a side note, I'm not using the latest Reaper version but still on v4.57.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Rizzo; 11-12-2016 at 03:05 AM.
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11-12-2016, 07:20 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Hello Rizzo and welcome to these forums. You'll find many helpful people here and a lot of useful information. Make sure that you:
get the excellent User Guide by Nicholas too: http://www.cockos.com/reaper/userguide.php,
check out Kenny Gioia's great video series: http://www.reaper.fm/videos.php,
and the Groove 3 video series: https://www.groove3.com/reaper-training-video-tutorials.
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I think that you mean that the various articulations are selected by specific MIDI notes (outside the usual playable range) sent before the 'real' notes. If so, then Reaper does not have any special awareness of those notes to be key-switches. It treats them just like any other MIDI notes and sends them to the plug-in at the appropriate time.
Can you post a screenshot of your MIDI clip showing the 'real' notes and the 'articulation-selecting' notes? That would help.
Another thought - does the plug-in expect the MIDI to be on a specific MIDI channel? If so, double-check the channels in the MIDI Editor / View Mode: Event List.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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11-12-2016, 09:35 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Hey Darkstar, thanks for the warm welcome. I'll check out the linked resources.
You got it, that's the issue. Sad to know that Reaper still doesn't support it, but well I guess I'll find another way to get my stuff done if that proves to be a real issue
Regarding the channel, I think AmpleBass sets itself on channel 3 from what I can see, but even forcing the notes' midi channels to that does not produce results.
Here are a screen to exemplify a trigger note (a test I did on an isolated track) plus the midi channels screen.
Again, I'm just a noob so thanks to anyone helping
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11-12-2016, 10:06 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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But Reaper DOES support it - you can add names to any of the MIDI notes (detials are in the User Guide); here's an example:
Or are you looking for something more?
Two other thoughts:
(a) that PC (Program Change) message in the MIDi clip may be upsetting the plug-in - I would delete that and the preceding Bank Select message (and maybe those other messages before the notes)
(b) maybe that articulation-setting MIDI note is in the wrong octave: the default note naming scheme is Reaper is from C-1 to G-9; try moving that note down one octave (from D#0 to D#-1)
If that resolves it then it would be a good idea to change the note names used in Reaper -click [Options], select 'Preferences', then 'Media', 'MIDI' and set the MIDI octave name display offset to -1. This only changes the names in within Reaper, nothing-else.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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11-13-2016, 07:40 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,427
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Hi,
Maybe he is inserting the Arctic note not on the correct midi CH?
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11-13-2016, 10:10 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Two other thoughts:
(a) that PC (Program Change) message in the MIDi clip may be upsetting the plug-in - I would delete that and the preceding Bank Select message (and maybe those other messages before the notes)
(b) maybe that articulation-setting MIDI note is in the wrong octave: the default note naming scheme is Reaper is from C-1 to G-9; try moving that note down one octave (from D#0 to D#-1)
If that resolves it then it would be a good idea to change the note names used in Reaper -click [Options], select 'Preferences', then 'Media', 'MIDI' and set the MIDI octave name display offset to -1. This only changes the names in within Reaper, nothing-else.
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I'll admit this is getting in "advanced talk zone" for me hehe.
Thanks for the tips, tried shifting the triggers down to the -1 octave and checked for all the notes to be on the same channel, but still nothing happening. Again, I could still be wrong since I don't perfectly know what I'm doing.
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11-13-2016, 10:27 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Perhaps you could compress a simple problem project file (no audio samples needed) into a ZIP file and post it here as an attachment so that we can have a look at it and see what's (not) happening?
How to post attachments (in Post #1)
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DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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11-14-2016, 02:48 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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What would I need to include in the project? Just the sample "problematic" midi track and that's it?
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11-14-2016, 03:38 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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That should be enough - as long as you have the plug-in loaded onto the track, so that anyone-else with that plug-in can try it.
Just to be very clear we do not need the plug-in itself, just a Reaper project in which the plug-in is loaded onto a track.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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11-14-2016, 05:12 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Here's my attached section of the project, hope I did everything correctly!
I prepared some notes as a recap.
Thanks to anyone helping, and please let me know in case I prepared the project incorrectly.
As a reminder, the involved VST is "Ample Bass PII".
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11-14-2016, 05:55 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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The 'Legato Slide' switches are named as E-2 here; their MIDI note numbers are 4.
It is listed as E0 in the Ample user guide (but that guide does not state the naming convention).
Your played notes are named as in the range F#1 to A3 here; so try moving the Legato Slides up 2 octaves.
Another way to check (presuming that key presses are indicated in some way on the Ample virtual keyboard) is to click the keys in the MIDI Editor and see which key is indicated on the Ample keyboard.
Let us know how you get on.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 11-14-2016 at 06:17 AM.
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11-14-2016, 06:48 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Hey Darkstar, thanks a lot! Shifting the notes to the 1 octave actually worked! Now the efx are there.
Now, could you please explain in "plainer" words what you just told me, so what's the actual cause of the naming mismatch? I'll be honest, I didn't get anything from your previous post, it's still rocket science for me haha!
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11-14-2016, 07:43 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
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while we're here... a way to chase articulations would be a great help.
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11-14-2016, 07:51 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Good oh! Now you've got it, type the articulation names into the piano roll keys and save them as a Note Names files (User Guide 13.20.1 and 13.14)
The naming mismatch is because there is no universally agreed naming convention.
Going back, on an 88-key piano, there are 8 C notes and "middle C" (~261.626 Hz) is the fourth. It was logical to name that C4. And, counting down, the very first key would be A0. The yellow key below is 'A440'.
Along came MIDI, and MIDI note number 60 (that's about halfway) was assigned to Middle C; counting down, MIDI note number 0 would be C-1. And the names would range from C-1 to G9.
So far, so good.
Then some synth manufacturers (Yamaha et al) took to naming Middle C as C3, resulting in a name range of C-2 to G8. The reason why is lost in the mists of time, but it may be because Middle C on a 61-key keyboard is the third C. Many hardware and software manufacturers followed their lead. Others named Middle C as C5, resulting in a name range of C0 to G10!
The important thing to remember is that it is only the name that is different, nothing-else.
Many Reaper users find that the octave offset setting of -1 works for them. But, once you have figured it out for any particular software plug-in, type in the names and save them as a Note Names files for future use.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 11-14-2016 at 09:31 AM.
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11-14-2016, 07:52 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver
while we're here... a way to chase articulations would be a great help.
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I don't know exactly what that means.
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DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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11-14-2016, 08:07 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
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cc messages are 'chased' - imagine midi item where the sustain pedal (cc 64) is put down at bar 10 (value 0) and then raised again at bar 30 (value 127). If you start payback at bar 20, REAPER checks the last value of cc 64 (in this case 0) and sends it out at the start of playback. Likewise if you start at bar 40 it will send cc 64 value 127.
Articulations need to behave the same way ideally. A particular range of notes needs to be chased - REAPER should look backward and find the last note of that range and fire it off when playback is initiated.
One possible way could be with reacontrolmidi - currently reacontrolmidi allows ccs to be controlled by envelopes - an articulation envelope that sends midi note ons could do the trick.
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11-14-2016, 09:27 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 23
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Thanks Darkstar for the explanation. Well, a bit of a midi nightmare!
I'll see about saving note names.
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11-14-2016, 09:30 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiquaver
cc messages are 'chased' - imagine midi item where the sustain pedal (cc 64) is put down at bar 10 (value 0) and then raised again at bar 30 (value 127). If you start payback at bar 20, REAPER checks the last value of cc 64 (in this case 0) and sends it out at the start of playback. Likewise if you start at bar 40 it will send cc 64 value 127.
Articulations need to behave the same way ideally. A particular range of notes needs to be chased - REAPER should look backward and find the last note of that range and fire it off when playback is initiated.
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http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=183807
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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12-04-2016, 10:56 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: France
Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizzo
Hey there everyone, first forum post for me.
I'm slowly advancing in home recording, and I found an obstacle in midi programming. As a premise, I'll say I didn't find an answer to my question in previous forum posts here or other Google searches. But I'm still a noob, so maybe I'm wrong.
I'm trying to get midi bass articulations by using the VST "Ample Bass PII". In this VST, articulation effects are not comprised in the midi map but triggered internally in the VST itself with specific midi events. For instance, you won't have the "slide effect" note to insert in your piano roll, but a "slide effect" midi note that will trigger the interested note, causing an effect on that. The trigger note is to be inserted before the note to trigger the effect while entering it, or during the note to trigger an exiting effect (example: entering slide or exiting slide).
In case I wasn't clear enough, here's an official demo video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo-gquQbxsw
I would need to simulate some bass slides, so by following the tutorial and VST manual I'm inserting the needed midi events as shown, but nothing happens.
What am I doing wrong? Is it user error or a function lacking in Reaper?
The official tutorial was shown in Cubase.
Edit: as a side note, I'm not using the latest Reaper version but still on v4.57.
Thanks in advance.
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Maybe you can try Stéphane's Inspector script.
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