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Old 07-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #1
kindafishy
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Default Music to Murder - Eyes on the Weather

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent." - J. Robert Oppenheimer

This is another sammydix penned rocker that we pushed, pulled and squeezed into a Music to Murder song. The playing and production duties were shared between the two of us, and I pushed the faders around, subject to what the both of us wanted out of the song.

All thoughts are welcome and encouraged, and nothing is off limits. Song, mix, production, etc, etc. Anything goes, good or bad or indifferent. Nobody writes to say they are indifferent, really, do they? Hey, go ahead if you want to.

Always looking to improve, and we're very thick skinned. Without comments and critiques, there is no way for us to know what we're doing right and there's no way to know what to do better, so have at it, if you wish.

Links:

Box.com (slightly higher bitrate) -> https://app.box.com/s/xalad6ley0fajmjvs60j
ReverbNation -> http://www.reverbnation.com/musictomurder

Mix updated with all suggestions made. Details on what has changed can be found in post#23.

Another small update as of post post#28.

...and another new update as of post post#48. Mix is still active, so any other suggestions will be considered.

Last edited by kindafishy; 08-04-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:11 PM   #2
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If I am indifferent, I don't comment.

I am commenting here but unsure what to say. The song deserves more listening, but I just wanted to let you know about my nonindifference. Great! And a bit disturbing.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #3
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Cool tune! IF the overheads are panned 100% I might try width at ~70% they are way wider than a listener would experience and they seem to be outside or at the same position the panned guitars are.

Wouldn't mind a little more kick/thump for this type of groove, kick sounds lower than the bass guitar in my monitors and seems like it should be less subtle but could just be my tastes since I by default like more low end bump than most people do. Again, nice work!
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by msore View Post
If I am indifferent, I don't comment.

I am commenting here but unsure what to say. The song deserves more listening, but I just wanted to let you know about my nonindifference. Great! And a bit disturbing.
The moment I wrote that, I found myself wondering if someone will write to admit their indifference, as some will inevitably neither like nor dislike the song. However, would the act of taking the time to profess indifference immediately negate that very indifference? Sometimes thoughts and opinions can be a bit Escherian.

Disturbing, in this case, is a description that is very much appreciated. When I first read Sammy's lyrics for this, they immediately got under my skin. Ominous is the word they left me with. I think they can be interpreted in so many ways, applied to so many situations, and taken as literally or figuratively as desired.

Thank you, msore.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Cool tune! IF the overheads are panned 100% I might try width at ~70% they are way wider than a listener would experience and they seem to be outside or at the same position the panned guitars are.

Wouldn't mind a little more kick/thump for this type of groove, kick sounds lower than the bass guitar in my monitors and seems like it should be less subtle but could just be my tastes since I by default like more low end bump than most people do. Again, nice work!
Hey, thank you so much, karbo!

I need a little more help on your suggestions before going ahead with them, so hopefully you read this and have a little bit more time for some feedback.

Re: The OH panning. The only section where the cymbals are really used is in the lead out "ending it all..." section. Is this the area you are talking about? Through my monitors, I'm getting a sense with these cymbals that they are coming at me from the upper right hand corner, above my head and behind the guitars, and they kind of dissipate towards the centre of the image after the initial hit. In my headphones, they are still over my head, and sitting over my right hear, but not too far off to the side, rather sort of at maybe 2 o'clock or so. I have my hats close mic up the middle, but they are supported by their apparent position in the OH stereo image, and the ride position comes all from the OH as well. Can I assume that the cymbal is what you are talking about, and are you suggesting that I pull it more towards the middle?

Re: The kick. In the section that starts at 1:50 and again in the section that starts at 2:28, the kick is really quite bare. I'm wondering how I can give the kick the bump you're looking for throughout the song while keeping it sounding appropriate in those sections. I do think that I can hear some room for your kick suggestion. Do you think there is room to put it up across the board, or would you maybe suggest giving it a couple dB more everywhere except those sections? I'm quite happy with the tone of the kick in those bare sections. It has a nice thud and good punch to it (to me), so I don't want to muck too much with that tone if I can help it. I'm using a really wonderful pultec EQ plugin (by ignite amps) both on the close mic and to a lesser extent, on the room mic to get the current thump that's there.
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Old 07-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #6
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@kindafishy

Cymbals: I think it was the breakdown around 2:30, it does sit where you say it does but the stereo image (all the parts of that cymbal/oh ambience that surround the direct sound) sounded 10 feet apart to me. Now, let me say this is overkill nitpicking because it is the only thing I could actually find to complain about and it can also function completely fine as it is. This is why I don't comment that much, I trust your judgment and anything I ramble about could be just that; probably related to my seeing what I can find more that the great job you did already.

Kick: That's really up to you because both of these are observations from my own personal taste. Like I said, I like it chestier than most and this had sort of that "levy breaks" thing going on so my brain was like "yea.... ". I'd put it right where you like it but you could try bringing it up so that it and the bass guitar are identical in volume if they aren't already, or even just bump it at 80hz by 1 or 2 db, not much really. I have no technical reason for doing so though.

It's a cool tune man, which I had the time and the chaps to hang with and do that like I used to.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:48 AM   #7
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I like it.

The vox needs to come forward or the bass needs to recede a bit.

Sometimes I cannot make out the lyric.

My gut instinct is that the bass is a touch overwhelming.

Nice work by all.
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #8
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Default my nickels worth

I would call for the voice to be more domiant and clear throughout, or at least most of the time, especially early. For example at 2:45 the vocal is clear and rather compelling, and I wonder why it was not before. But then a minute later the vocal is used as riff and that part is okay as less clear. The bass could use (yes samborouge) some up/down envelope in sensitive interaction with vox.

As I finish the song (again) I want your song to have more "storminess". The kind of storminess that Sam brings around 1:30. The guitar lead at 3:33 (over the riffing vox) is a step in that direction, but it is too short and restrained.

One more question/suggestion. Could there be more color with some keys, or some other instrument? Perhaps it is a design feature to be respected, but the whole production is totally lean, stripped down, kept on a chain.

The interspersed stops and quiet sections give power to the noisy sections. Using that same principle, the guitar lead at 1:50 provides a welcome ear-massage, then quite effectively goes back to the harsh riffing. I consider the ending to be based on a similar effect. Stop and it just keeps hitting you! Cool.

You know the first time I heard it, I was impressed by what I thought were the changes, melodies, and complexity, but as I listened more, I think that it was the arrangment and intensity that gave me that reaction. This is what a good song does, I think - it creates JUST ENOUGH interest and then hits it. I am jealous.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:13 PM   #9
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First off, I like the song and the performance aspect of it, but as for the mix I think it could be allot better.

The bass guitar is really prominent in the mix, but it doesn't have a sound to it that suits the track, it has a midrange-ie sound to it with no real weight. I can see that as something that could be much more polished and it would be more effective at moving the song along. There are a few spots where it buries guitars rather than working with them

The drums sound very distant to me, but the cymbals are a little brash at times and up front. The kick drum sounds like it was captured with a room mic and it's often in-audible. The snare is fine, but because of the missing kick, I have a hard time feeling the beat. It leaves me kind of wanting a swampy sort of Kashmir type feel to it.

All that being said, It's really easy to pick apart someone else's mix as I'm not knee deep in it and trying to keep all those involved happy.

This would be a good track to have a few different people mix though, as I'm sure you'd get some pretty interesting twists.
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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Very nice song as a whole.
I especially liked the crimsony chording you've got there.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:32 PM   #11
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Hi KF and Sammy,

Really like this song a lot, their is a lot of melodic guitar lines and riffage going on in their that really knits the song together, nice!

As for the mix, I can't add anything constructive that hasn't already been covered.
I think if you take on the suggestions already mentioned you could really end up with something top shelf.

Cool song guys.

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Old 07-28-2013, 05:20 PM   #12
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I like it too, what I hear tallies with what others have said.

I would consider the bass guitar vs kick drum balance again, before you declare it 'done', but that is not to say that it needs changing. Just listen with fresh ears on a range of different gear and decide for yourself.

Personals: I really like that ambient kick drum myself, but the guitars are thinnish, everything else great, good tune and performances.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
@kindafishy

Cymbals: I think it was the breakdown around 2:30, it does sit where you say it does but the stereo image (all the parts of that cymbal/oh ambience that surround the direct sound) sounded 10 feet apart to me. Now, let me say this is overkill nitpicking because it is the only thing I could actually find to complain about and it can also function completely fine as it is. This is why I don't comment that much, I trust your judgment and anything I ramble about could be just that; probably related to my seeing what I can find more that the great job you did already.

Kick: That's really up to you because both of these are observations from my own personal taste. Like I said, I like it chestier than most and this had sort of that "levy breaks" thing going on so my brain was like "yea.... ". I'd put it right where you like it but you could try bringing it up so that it and the bass guitar are identical in volume if they aren't already, or even just bump it at 80hz by 1 or 2 db, not much really. I have no technical reason for doing so though.

It's a cool tune man, which I had the time and the chaps to hang with and do that like I used to.
I think you should comment more often! Personally, I like hearing subjective and objective thoughts equally. One of my favourite aspects of music is sharing interpretations. Awesome stuff.

I experimented with the OH's and it does tighten up the image a if I bring them in. I ended up settling on 65 R/L. I'm still getting the positional sense that I liked as before, but now stuff is a little more out in front of me instead of so much out to the sides. Nice. I've also found that just simply pushing the kick up by about 3dB, I'm really getting kind of a 'heartbeat' kind of thing from it, and it's not overpowering the sections where it is a little more bare.

Thanks for the suggestions. No update as of yet. I'll update the first post when a new version is up.

"wish I had the time and the chaps to hang with and do that like I used to"

I wish you did too! Do it!
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:30 PM   #14
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I like it.

The vox needs to come forward or the bass needs to recede a bit.

Sometimes I cannot make out the lyric.

My gut instinct is that the bass is a touch overwhelming.

Nice work by all.
The gut is always right. Couple comments about the bass coming in. In taking comments in and after discussing with Sammy, I'm thinking that if I drop some of the mids from the bass and then push it up a bit in the mix, it might just satisfy everything that everyone is hearing?

In addition, I'll go through section by section and ride the vocals to make sure they are where they should be.

Good stuff Sambo, thank you!
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:52 PM   #15
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I would call for the voice to be more domiant and clear throughout, or at least most of the time, especially early. For example at 2:45 the vocal is clear and rather compelling, and I wonder why it was not before. But then a minute later the vocal is used as riff and that part is okay as less clear. The bass could use (yes samborouge) some up/down envelope in sensitive interaction with vox.

As I finish the song (again) I want your song to have more "storminess". The kind of storminess that Sam brings around 1:30. The guitar lead at 3:33 (over the riffing vox) is a step in that direction, but it is too short and restrained.

One more question/suggestion. Could there be more color with some keys, or some other instrument? Perhaps it is a design feature to be respected, but the whole production is totally lean, stripped down, kept on a chain.

The interspersed stops and quiet sections give power to the noisy sections. Using that same principle, the guitar lead at 1:50 provides a welcome ear-massage, then quite effectively goes back to the harsh riffing. I consider the ending to be based on a similar effect. Stop and it just keeps hitting you! Cool.

You know the first time I heard it, I was impressed by what I thought were the changes, melodies, and complexity, but as I listened more, I think that it was the arrangment and intensity that gave me that reaction. This is what a good song does, I think - it creates JUST ENOUGH interest and then hits it. I am jealous.
Second vote for the voice getting another pass. On it. Sam and I are discussing possibilities for keys. That's a great idea. Maybe an additional instrument can bring the storm back at the end of the song. The guitar lead near the end is designed to do what you are perceiving it to do (well, it's not supposed to be too short, but restrained, yes). It is meant to start out with just a little bit of intensity, but then taper off part way though to sustain, simmer and relax for a second, so the end riff can suck up the remaining energy and finish the tune off. Out like a lamb.

Thanks msore. I always appreciate your thought provoking insights and the way you really open yourself to a song.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #16
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first off, great song! you guys have a lot of creativity and talent and it shows, repeatedly. great job!

i use to read other people's reviews in these threads and then listen to the song. i now make it a staunch rule not to. no matter how confident i feel i am at preventing those reviews from coloring my perspective, in the end it does (subconsciously). so i resisted reading them for this tune and only read them after listening a few times.

I. ok, so i must agree with a few others that the bass seems to be a little too dominant in the mix. more than that, for me, it's also seems to be a character thing. the bass tone doesn't quite work for me. i kept finding it distracting me rather than pulling me in, slapping on a pair of high heeled black boots and pushing me out onto the dance floor to boogie my ass off (oh dear God, the image of that just brought up a little dinner). can you re-amp? do you have a DI of this track? just a thought. i think a little more compression would help tremendously. maybe a compressor with a lot of character for this particular situation.

II. always love Sammy's voice. i think it needs to come up a little and be more "in your face", center. in the current mix he sounds a little washed. his vocal style, and the style of the song, is begging for a very personal, small smokey bar experience. small verb/room. maybe a little push on 5k/8k to add some presence.

III. LOVE the change up and guitar work at 1:52!! really, really nice. love what's going on behind the solo too! i'm a huge fan of syncopation. i'd start a club if i could...

IV. i love your kick sound. big, a little boomy. fits really well. sounds like an big old Ludwig! at times it seems to get lost in the mix. maybe punch a hole in the bass to let it breathe a little more?

V. i think my favorite part of this whole song starts at ~3:40 to the end. i love the interplay of the vocals (would love to hear that backing vox a little more...), guitar - everything. truly special! really grooves! sits well, makes you feel good/happy.

my nickel.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Andy Hamm View Post
First off, I like the song and the performance aspect of it, but as for the mix I think it could be allot better.

The bass guitar is really prominent in the mix, but it doesn't have a sound to it that suits the track, it has a midrange-ie sound to it with no real weight. I can see that as something that could be much more polished and it would be more effective at moving the song along. There are a few spots where it buries guitars rather than working with them

The drums sound very distant to me, but the cymbals are a little brash at times and up front. The kick drum sounds like it was captured with a room mic and it's often in-audible. The snare is fine, but because of the missing kick, I have a hard time feeling the beat. It leaves me kind of wanting a swampy sort of Kashmir type feel to it.

All that being said, It's really easy to pick apart someone else's mix as I'm not knee deep in it and trying to keep all those involved happy.

This would be a good track to have a few different people mix though, as I'm sure you'd get some pretty interesting twists.
Andy, thanks so much for the kind words and the great feedback.

Low end. Gets me every time. No matter how much I think I've got a handle on it, it always turns out that I don't... ah well, one of these days.

My biggest problem (unless I am just a carpenter blaming his hammer), is that I am mixing in a very poor environment like a lot of us here. I can't hear my bottom end much, and certainly not in any kind of an accurate way, so I am flying blind for the most part and depending on feedback for how to proceed.

I think you and Sambo are hearing the same problem with the bass in this track. Sam is hearing what you are describing as bass notes that wander a bit out of the centre of the image. All of this kind of says to me that some of the bass frequencies are encroaching on the low end of the guitar a little bit too much and getting lost. So, if I attenuate the mids on the bass and perhaps push it up a little, it should clarify that centre image and drive the bottom end a little more. Well, that's the theory anyway.

The drums are very much positioned to be in the back, but I must have gone too far with that since you pointed it out as a negative. That being said, I did push the close mic kick up here, and it makes a positive difference. I do tend to rely on the room mics for most of my drum sounds, so great ear on you there. I'm much more of a fan of room sounds than close mic sounds. I'm not a 'modern sounding mix' guy really, so I tend to use as little close mic as possible. The cymbals have just the high end that I want them to have, I think, but Karbo's suggestion to move them in a little was effective, so perhaps they won't rub you the wrong way with that change.
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:41 PM   #18
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Very nice song as a whole.
I especially liked the crimsony chording you've got there.
Thanks carbon!
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Hi KF and Sammy,

Really like this song a lot, their is a lot of melodic guitar lines and riffage going on in their that really knits the song together, nice!

As for the mix, I can't add anything constructive that hasn't already been covered.
I think if you take on the suggestions already mentioned you could really end up with something top shelf.

Cool song guys.

Cheers
Hey Wolff,

I'm gonna take all the suggestions, but then I'll probably mess something else up, ha ha. Such is how my mixing progresses...

Love these forums. I am by no means a good mixer, but the little that I can pump out today is a direct result of all the help I've always received here.

Cheers, and thanks for the kind words!
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:50 PM   #20
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I like it too, what I hear tallies with what others have said.

I would consider the bass guitar vs kick drum balance again, before you declare it 'done', but that is not to say that it needs changing. Just listen with fresh ears on a range of different gear and decide for yourself.

Personals: I really like that ambient kick drum myself, but the guitars are thinnish, everything else great, good tune and performances.
Yes for sure! I'm a chronic tweaker, so I have no problem going a few more iterations before the song is done.

I'm working on the bass and kick right now (well, in between posts).

I like the room sound on a drum kit as well. Here, the kick isn't coming through as it needs to, but hopefully with the changes I'm making now it will be better.

I am hoping that the guitars fill out a bit for you once I attend to the bass and kick a little more. It seems that there is too much overlap between the bass and guitar if I am interpreting everything correctly.

Thanks a lot, hamish!
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:52 PM   #21
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first off, great song! you guys have a lot of creativity and talent and it shows, repeatedly. great job!

i use to read other people's reviews in these threads and then listen to the song. i now make it a staunch rule not to. no matter how confident i feel i am at preventing those reviews from coloring my perspective, in the end it does (subconsciously). so i resisted reading them for this tune and only read them after listening a few times.

I. ok, so i must agree with a few others that the bass seems to be a little too dominant in the mix. more than that, for me, it's also seems to be a character thing. the bass tone doesn't quite work for me. i kept finding it distracting me rather than pulling me in, slapping on a pair of high heeled black boots and pushing me out onto the dance floor to boogie my ass off (oh dear God, the image of that just brought up a little dinner). can you re-amp? do you have a DI of this track? just a thought. i think a little more compression would help tremendously. maybe a compressor with a lot of character for this particular situation.

II. always love Sammy's voice. i think it needs to come up a little and be more "in your face", center. in the current mix he sounds a little washed. his vocal style, and the style of the song, is begging for a very personal, small smokey bar experience. small verb/room. maybe a little push on 5k/8k to add some presence.

III. LOVE the change up and guitar work at 1:52!! really, really nice. love what's going on behind the solo too! i'm a huge fan of syncopation. i'd start a club if i could...

IV. i love your kick sound. big, a little boomy. fits really well. sounds like an big old Ludwig! at times it seems to get lost in the mix. maybe punch a hole in the bass to let it breathe a little more?

V. i think my favorite part of this whole song starts at ~3:40 to the end. i love the interplay of the vocals (would love to hear that backing vox a little more...), guitar - everything. truly special! really grooves! sits well, makes you feel good/happy.

my nickel.
Thanks Mark!

I. I also agree! I'd go so far as to say that it is mostly a character thing. I can't mix bass. I think this has been firmly established and it's never going to change. My evil plan is to continuously post to the REAPER forums for the rest of my life to find out what I've messed up. It hasn't failed me yet! Haha. Yup. That's quite the image there... especially since I'm sure I've seen your picture on SoundCloud, heh. As far as re-amping, I don't have a re-amping box or a real bass amp, so that's not really an option. I do have the DI. Actually, the DI makes up most of the current tone. I have the IK Bass VST, but I don't like it. I also have the ignite bass head VST, and I do like that, so maybe I can make more use of it.

II. Agree. Before putting up an updated version, I'm going to go through each section and automate to make sure he's always up front. I generally don't like that high end boost on Sam's vocals and I try to avoid it, but I will try it out in this case to see how it sounds. I have a 1 second plate that I really like on him now. I'll try a small room out though and see how that sounds. Great suggestions, thanks.

III. Thank you! ...and do it! You can get me free drinks and I won't have to wait in line with everyone else!

IV. Thanks! I mentioned this earlier, but I attribute it mostly to the wonderful pultec style eq by ignite amps. I love it. As for it getting lost, I think that putting in up by a few dB was just the ticket. Hopefully it will come across better in an upcoming updated mix. Now, based on a lot of the feedback I'm getting here, the bass needs to be less mid heavy, which is going to put it in more direct competition with the thump of the kick, so I may have to duck it or put a specific hole in the bass for it.

V. Thank you very much again. I also really dig the end part. For some reason, it was A LOT of fun to play. Not really sure why. BG vocs up. Got it.

Great feedback, Mark. I really appreciate it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by kindafishy View Post
Thanks Mark!

I. I also agree! I'd go so far as to say that it is mostly a character thing. I can't mix bass. I think this has been firmly established and it's never going to change. My evil plan is to continuously post to the REAPER forums for the rest of my life to find out what I've messed up. It hasn't failed me yet! Haha. Yup. That's quite the image there... especially since I'm sure I've seen your picture on SoundCloud, heh. As far as re-amping, I don't have a re-amping box or a real bass amp, so that's not really an option. I do have the DI. Actually, the DI makes up most of the current tone. I have the IK Bass VST, but I don't like it. I also have the ignite bass head VST, and I do like that, so maybe I can make more use of it.

II. Agree. Before putting up an updated version, I'm going to go through each section and automate to make sure he's always up front. I generally don't like that high end boost on Sam's vocals and I try to avoid it, but I will try it out in this case to see how it sounds. I have a 1 second plate that I really like on him now. I'll try a small room out though and see how that sounds. Great suggestions, thanks.

III. Thank you! ...and do it! You can get me free drinks and I won't have to wait in line with everyone else!

IV. Thanks! I mentioned this earlier, but I attribute it mostly to the wonderful pultec style eq by ignite amps. I love it. As for it getting lost, I think that putting in up by a few dB was just the ticket. Hopefully it will come across better in an upcoming updated mix. Now, based on a lot of the feedback I'm getting here, the bass needs to be less mid heavy, which is going to put it in more direct competition with the thump of the kick, so I may have to duck it or put a specific hole in the bass for it.

V. Thank you very much again. I also really dig the end part. For some reason, it was A LOT of fun to play. Not really sure why. BG vocs up. Got it.

Great feedback, Mark. I really appreciate it.
i doubt ANYBODY is good at bass. lol.. seriously.. if you get bass right, hell - you're definitely ready for the big leagues! i love the SHB ignite bass VST. Use it on everything!! i use to add the free BOD VST with it - but it got too boomy. my current mix has SHB=>Reafir->Kefir (a really nice Orange bass cab, if you want it, PM me)->Reaxcomp (clamping down on ~80hz-210hz) and reacomp. i think it's pretty good, but like you - bass is a major CHALLENGE for me. probably the hardest thing to get right. good luck! you have a great tune to work with. that's half the battle!
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:07 AM   #23
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Updated the mix based on all the awesome feedback. Much thanks to everyone. The links in the first post point to the new mix.

Changes
- Shifted the focus of the bass away from the mid focused tone to a low end focused tone.
- Increased the close mic kick signal.
- Made sure the vocals are up front in all sections.
- Tweaked the OH panning by bringing it in a bit.

Overall, I think the mix has improved in terms of focus and energy.

I've also arranged to make msore happy, but that is going to take a couple weeks .

Still open to comments and additional tweaks. If I went to far, or not far enough, I'm still happy to keep tweaking the mix.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:24 AM   #24
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with advice like i've been seeing, i think it's about time for me to throw something together to find my weak mixing spots. just awesome stuff to make one aware of things that you just don't see in some of the other 'sunshiny' music sites. you guys are the best. thx to all.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:39 AM   #25
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Great song as usual fellas!

I missed the first mix but this mix sounds good to me. Only comment I have is about the low end. I think the bass and kick level is ok, but the low end is bothering me a bit. IMO, it could use a HP filter around 45 or 50 Hz
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:03 AM   #26
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Man I like this! Great tuneage!

I hear a mix of Alice in Chains "Tripod" album guitar tones... i hear a bit of Soundgarden and a dash of Blind Melon too...

I'm digging the other tunes on your playlist too!

Are you mic'ing guitar amps, or using Amp Sim?
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
Great song as usual fellas!

I missed the first mix but this mix sounds good to me. Only comment I have is about the low end. I think the bass and kick level is ok, but the low end is bothering me a bit. IMO, it could use a HP filter around 45 or 50 Hz
Thanks shemp! I can hear that. Right at 45Hz is where I put a little resonant bump in the bass in trying to get it slightly under and around the kick. I do hear that it is just a little bit wooley down there, so doing as you suggest on the whole mix using a pretty steep filter just at the right spot will probably tighten it up in a really nice way. I'll try not to go overboard like I usually do...
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOWNtheMILE View Post
Man I like this! Great tuneage!

I hear a mix of Alice in Chains "Tripod" album guitar tones... i hear a bit of Soundgarden and a dash of Blind Melon too...

I'm digging the other tunes on your playlist too!

Are you mic'ing guitar amps, or using Amp Sim?
Awesome, thanks! Those influences are in there, no doubt. I've said it many times, but I'll say it again... I'm a firm believer in wearing influences on the sleeve. If not for the artists we love, would any of us be writing or playing? Why hide it?

Really happy you like the tunes, man. That means everything.

Amp sims for now. This tune is using Ignite NRR-1/TPA-1 and Recabinet for the hard panned guitars, while the melody guitar uses S-Gear (The Duke, I think). Other tunes use a mixture of HeadCase and S-Gear for the most part.

I'd love to move to real amps, and I am planning on doing that at some point. That's not going to be for at least another year and a half though. There's only so much budget for gear, and I would like to upgrade my monitors and interface this upcoming spring. Then, there's the matter of all the guitars that I really need... heh.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:49 PM   #29
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much better! with those vox up, it really makes a difference. still like to hear that awesome "John Bonham" kick a little more, but that's just my personal preference. good job!
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:28 PM   #30
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Small tweaks made, mix in the OP updated again.

Thanks for the encouragement and feedback, mschuster. I gave you a little more kick in the newest mix, up now in the original post.

@shemp, I HPd the bass to shave off just the lowest wooley frequencies. Good call, man!

I also tweaked the vocals a little. They were sitting on top of the track just a little, so I put the body down and added a touch of presence to drop them into the mix a bit more.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:38 PM   #31
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great work on making subtle tweaks, the bass if working better.

I was going to try not to make any sugesstions, but I have a hunch that it is the guitars that are masking the kick, meaning top end now, like upper mids.

You may have figured that out yourself, (and this mix is your position on that?). In the outro, from around 3.30 you hear that nice 'smack' coming through, whereas when the guitars are busier it gets masked. I guess it depends on if you want to compromise the guitar tone or if that's more important.

Sounding really good though, you've had some much more detailed feedback from others.
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by hamish View Post
great work on making subtle tweaks, the bass if working better.

I was going to try not to make any sugesstions, but I have a hunch that it is the guitars that are masking the kick, meaning top end now, like upper mids.

You may have figured that out yourself, (and this mix is your position on that?). In the outro, from around 3.30 you hear that nice 'smack' coming through, whereas when the guitars are busier it gets masked. I guess it depends on if you want to compromise the guitar tone or if that's more important.

Sounding really good though, you've had some much more detailed feedback from others.
By all means, do make suggestions! I love this stuff, and I can tweak for days. Posting, getting feedback, tweaking, making small improvements... I enjoy the whole process and it is a very fun way to learn.

I did note that the guitars are masking the kick, but I don't mind where it stands right now for a few reasons. In the sections where it is not quite audible, I am still getting the heartbeat kind of thump from it, and when the guitars drop out, the contrast is nice. I find myself anticipating the sparser sections of the song partially because of how the kick takes over in those sections. I was also finding that if I added any more woodiness to the kick, it gets clicky, and if I reduce the 4k-ish area of the guitars, I lose the presence that I like that I currently have.

I can certainly play around with it more next time I fire up the session to see if I can clear it up a bit, but still keep that nice contrast that I like, and not affect the guitars too much.

Your feedback has been great, thanks a lot.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:06 AM   #33
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Sounding a lot better KF, but for me the bass really pokes its head out in the ( chorus section ? ) starting around 1:25 >> 1:38.

You are asking for suggestions so, try a -3 >> -6 db cut between 130 & 135 htz,( or somewhere around there ) fairly narrow Q, but play around with the Q till it sits right, and see if that tames that down a bit, it might also help to give the bass a feeling of more weight without getting boomy.

Just a suggestion, it might not work at all but no harm in trying


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Old 07-31-2013, 05:34 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post
Sounding a lot better KF, but for me the bass really pokes its head out in the ( chorus section ? ) starting around 1:25 >> 1:38.

You are asking for suggestions so, try a -3 >> -6 db cut between 130 & 135 htz,( or somewhere around there ) fairly narrow Q, but play around with the Q till it sits right, and see if that tames that down a bit, it might also help to give the bass a feeling of more weight without getting boomy.

Just a suggestion, it might not work at all but no harm in trying


Cheers
Brilliant Wolff, I'll definitely give that a try. Bass is the hardest thing...

I also had a thought last night while not being able to fall asleep that if, on the guitars bus, I use ReaEQ right at the 4k mark with two EQ bands, one with a narrow Q, deep cut and the other with a wider Q shallow boost, I might be able to give a bit of room for the woodiness of the kick, and not loose much or anything in the way of presence.

It would end up looking like this:

_/\.../\_
ww\/

Going to give it a shot anyway...
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:59 AM   #35
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Like the tune kindafishy.I agree that the Bass seems to dominate a little too much.
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:50 AM   #36
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Like the tune kindafishy.I agree that the Bass seems to dominate a little too much.
Thanks much, bob. I have further work to do on the bass. In particular, I'm going to work more on the area that Wolff suggested. If you're finding it overpowering overall, hopefully this will help. Cheers!
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:40 AM   #37
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Yes, more work on the bass. I have rocket 5"s with a sub and the bass is too boomy/muddy in the lows. Maybe look at a Reaeq low shelf at f100 - 2db on the bass or maybe even a high pass *Gasp* and then maybe a 3 db cut oct = .741 (which translates to Q=2) at f250 to let the kick through. Other than the low lows, everything else sounds great.
Personally, I find the lows the hardest thing to sculpt and sit in a song.

The song has a real smooth raunchiness going on, funky too with a hint of Zappa/Bungle.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #38
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Yes, more work on the bass. I have rocket 5"s with a sub and the bass is too boomy/muddy in the lows. Maybe look at a Reaeq low shelf at f100 - 2db on the bass or maybe even a high pass *Gasp* and then maybe a 3 db cut oct = .741 (which translates to Q=2) at f250 to let the kick through. Other than the low lows, everything else sounds great.
Personally, I find the lows the hardest thing to sculpt and sit in a song.

The song has a real smooth raunchiness going on, funky too with a hint of Zappa/Bungle.
Thanks Lucian! I appreciate the detailed thoughts. I'm just opening up the session to do some work on it right now.

Yes bass. I hate it. Hate. Bass. The earlier mix of the song had a bass part that was more mid-focused, and both Sam and I really liked it, but based on the comments I was getting, nobody else liked it, and wanted it to be less mid-y and more low-y. So, I tore it down and rebuilt it with a more low-focused sound and now it is too boomy . I'm just going to stop putting bass in songs. Heh.

Lows are far and away the hardest thing to deal with. I'm glad that you've got a system with subs and that you've shared what you are hearing. Thank you!
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:52 PM   #39
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Hey Fish,

All I now find myself listening to is that BASS.

The rest of the mix is vastly improved with all of the subtle tweaks that you have done. Its a joy to hear Sammy's lyric nice and clearly.

But the BASS!

The frickin' BASS.

Do something about the BASS will you?

Ta.
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Old 08-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #40
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By the way, did I mention the BASS?
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