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01-15-2011, 12:23 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Problems with RME Babyface
Hello everybody,
I'm rather new to Reaper and I'm experiencing some strange problems using Reaper and the RME Babyface with the latest firmware/driver.
After recording some 40 tracks for my first Reaper project at a buffer size of 96 and 128 samples I wanted to give my PC some breathing room for the mixing stage by raising the buffer size. This is when it happens: the higher the buffer size I use, the *more* crackling I get. It starts at 256 samples and gets worse at 512 and 1024. When I chose 2048 samples, there is no sound at all. It doesn't matter if my project contains 40 tracks or only one track. The use of FX doesn't change anything, either. Always the same thing.
I'm not experiencing the same problem in Cubase 4 Essential. Therefore I guess it must be a Reaper problem. My PC is a Intel Core2Quad Q8200 @ 2.33 GHz and 3,25 GB RAM, using Windows XP Service Pack 3.
Thanks for any help. Hope this is the right place to post this message.
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01-17-2011, 03:46 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
the higher the buffer size I use, the *more* crackling I get.
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Wow - an interface that produces less crackling with smaller buffer sizes - it's what we have been waiting for for years. But given the price, some perks are in order, I guess
But, on a serious note - did you try to mix at the low buffer sizes before changing to higher? And if so, did you experience crackling? If not, what happens if you now go back to 96/128 samples - crackling or no?
I am interested in the outcome of this as I am also pondering getting one of those babies.
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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01-17-2011, 03:56 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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When I go back to 128 samples, the crackling is gone - at least in the early mixing stage that I'm still in. I'm just worried that once I'm almost done and using way more FX than I'm using now, the "usual" low-buffer-size crackling will commence and I will have to start over in another DAW.
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01-17-2011, 04:12 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
I'm just worried that once I'm almost done and using way more FX than I'm using now, the "usual" low-buffer-size crackling will commence and I will have to start over in another DAW.
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Just keep going with 128 and trust an expensive German product to do its job properly . In the meantime, just to be safe, report the issue to R.M.E. (this being a new product they might actually be interested), and hope they come back with an answer before you run into problems.
You might also want to...
1. muck around with settings such as bit depth (16 / 24 / 32 bit) and rate (44.1 / 48 / 96 / ... kHz),
2. check your latency with DPC Latency Checker ( http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml) before and while your project is playing at varying buffer sizes (more info on this, if required, is available all over the 'net),
3. try a different interface (maybe even software like ASIOforAll or a generic Windows interface such as WDM) and check whether this also produces more crackling with larger buffers.
Oh yes, and do yourself a favour and get rid of Windows XP. Windows 7 is far superior for audio purposes, and more fitting to your hardware setup.
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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01-17-2011, 04:28 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Rallef
Wow - an interface that produces less crackling with smaller buffer sizes - it's what we have been waiting for for years.
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Higher buffer sizes can lead to similar problems. Too large chunks for the CPU or so.
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01-17-2011, 04:44 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
Higher buffer sizes can lead to similar problems. Too large chunks for the CPU or so.
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Yup. Plus, if you've got bit rot, bigger buffers make things even worse.
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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01-17-2011, 04:52 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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But 256 samples isn't that high, is it?
I've now posted the same message in the RME forum. Gonna try a few things you suggested. Let's just hope that my PC is stong enough to let me do the whole mixing at 128 samples.
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01-17-2011, 05:22 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
But 256 samples isn't that high, is it?
I've now posted the same message in the RME forum. Gonna try a few things you suggested. Let's just hope that my PC is stong enough to let me do the whole mixing at 128 samples.
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Relax - remember that after all, you are not having any problems at all at this point in time other than your "What if"-scenario.
As I see it, your PC is up to spec, your interface should be as well, and the only thing I am worried about is, as I said, Windows XP...
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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01-23-2011, 05:34 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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The "What if"-scenario came true. 3/4 through the project, the stuttering started. Changing the buffer size to 265 (still) makes ist worse. Looks like I'll have to export all the tracks and mix the project again in Cubase. Really frustrated now...
Is there a way to render all the tracks at once to individual files "dry" without having to manually reset the Vol, Pan, Fx etc to zero?
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02-11-2011, 04:46 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Just wondering whether there have been any new developments here.
Captain Cook, are you aware of the firmware update that was posted on the 4th of February?
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads...oads_driver_uc
El-Rallef
P.S. Are you really Captain Cook?
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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02-11-2011, 04:53 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Rallef
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Thanks. Gonna try this immediately. And no, no developments so far. Finished my song using Cubase, which sucks.
Quote:
P.S. Are you really Captain Cook?
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You mean: the explorer of the Pacific ocean? No. The bandleader of the "Swinging Saxophones" ( http://www.amazon.de/Aber-Dich-GibtS...7425068&sr=8-2). Neither.
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02-11-2011, 05:04 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
But 256 samples isn't that high, is it?
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256 isn't high, that's right. 2048 and 4096 are sizes that are not that common these days I think.
On my RME HDSP 9632 (PCI) I'm using 512 and 256 samples buffer sizes.
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02-11-2011, 06:22 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
On my RME HDSP 9632 (PCI) I'm using 512 and 256 samples buffer sizes.
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Shouldn't you be able to go to much lower settings than 256 with a PCI interface, given the rest of the hardware is up to spec?
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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02-11-2011, 06:27 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Rallef
given the rest of the hardware is up to spec?
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Core 2 Duo E6700. So not the latest stuff.
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02-11-2011, 06:59 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Updated the Babyface firmware. Still the same problems.
What else can I do? Somebody directed me to this thread: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=72869 . It's about multi-core CPUs and their power saving settings. I haven't tried it yet.
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02-11-2011, 07:03 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Updated the Babyface firmware. Still the same problems.
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Is there a buffer size that's working for you at all? If 128 is fine then don't change it.
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02-11-2011, 07:13 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Sure. 128 and smaller works great. However, at some point in large projects I have to raise the buffer size to avoid the "regular" crackling that occurs when your computer is being pushed to its limits. But at 265 and more there is this strange crackling - even if I create a new empty project and import/record a single audio file.
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02-11-2011, 07:42 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Sure. 128 and smaller works great. However, at some point in large projects I have to raise the buffer size to avoid the "regular" crackling that occurs when your computer is being pushed to its limits. But at 265 and more there is this strange crackling - even if I create a new empty project and import/record a single audio file.
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And what if you reboot your machine between buffer size changes?
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02-11-2011, 07:45 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Doesn't make any difference.
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02-11-2011, 07:50 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Doesn't make any difference.
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Ok. For PCI cards this was helping sometimes.
Is it your only USB device?
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02-11-2011, 07:52 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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No, I still have my old Tascam US122. You're right. I should try this one and see what happens.
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02-11-2011, 10:18 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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You know what happened? Strange things. This is what I did.
1. Unlpugged the Babyface. Plugged the Tascam in. Started Reaper.
2. Reaper promts me to change the asio driver, which I do (now: Tascam US-122 24 Bit, lowest possible buffer size: 256)
3. I press play in a medium size project. Bluescreen.
4. Reboot. Start Reaper. Immediate bluescreen.
5. Reboot. Start Reaper. Immediate bluescreen.
6. Unplug Tascam. Plug Babayface in. Reboot.
7. Start Reaper. Works. Change buffer size to 265. Works.
So... everything's fine. But I have no clue why everything's fine.
Idea: The RME manual tells me I should not use the Babyface as the default audio device in Windows (why?). That's what's different now from the old settings. However, I'd love to use the Babyface as the default in Windows as I'd like to listen to music from iTunes and internet radios over my monitoring system.
I have never used the Tascam with Reaper before. Changed the DAW the same time I changed the interface. So where do those bluescreens come from?
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02-11-2011, 11:20 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Idea: The RME manual tells me I should not use the Babyface as the default audio device in Windows (why?). That's what's different now from the old settings. However, I'd love to use the Babyface as the default in Windows as I'd like to listen to music from iTunes and internet radios over my monitoring system.
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Make sure you disable the outputs (that you want to use as Windows default outputs) in REAPER.
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02-13-2011, 04:20 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Unfortunately, I'd like to use the same outputs for both options. The idea is to get used to the sound of my new monitors and compare songs to my own recordings.
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02-13-2011, 06:51 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Unfortunately, I'd like to use the same outputs for both options. The idea is to get used to the sound of my new monitors and compare songs to my own recordings.
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You can do this with separate outputs for each application. You just need to route them to the same hardware outputs in your Babyface mixer.
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02-14-2011, 01:47 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
7. Start Reaper. Works. Change buffer size to 265. Works.
So... everything's fine. But I have no clue why everything's fine.
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Does this mean all your crackling problems are gone, even with a large number of tracks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
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I would suggest installing the Power Profile mentioned in this thread - if you ever run into audio problems, it's a quick and easy way of checking whether it has to do with processor power management, which is a common source of problems. However, I would not use this setting all the time, as it might increase power consumption, heat, and, consequently, fan noise.
El-Rallef
__________________
I have the heart of a child. At home, in a jar.
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02-14-2011, 01:57 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Rallef
Does this mean all your crackling problems are gone, even with a large number of tracks?
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Yes, at higher buffer sizes (of course, I still have the problems at 128 from the large number of tracks). I loaded the project I had to abandon for Cubase and everything's working as it should at 265 and higher. So I guess I'm back with Reaper now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
You can do this with separate outputs for each application. You just need to route them to the same hardware outputs in your Babyface mixer.
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Sorry, I don't get this.
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02-14-2011, 03:18 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Sorry, I don't get this.
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You don't get the Mixer of your Babyface? Shame on you!
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02-14-2011, 03:41 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Something just made klick in my head. I can use the ADAT 1/2 Software-Playback Out als Windows default (even though I don't use ADAT hardware at all) and then rout this Out to the hardware out that feeds my monitors, using RME Total Mix. At the same time I can use a different software playback channel for Reaper and rout this to the monitor out, too. Is that correct?
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02-14-2011, 03:54 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Yes .
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02-14-2011, 04:25 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Great. I always thought that these playback channels were named "Anlalog", "Phones", "ADAT" etc. because they had actually something to do with those hardware outs.
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02-14-2011, 04:38 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Cook
Great. I always thought that these playback channels were named "Anlalog", "Phones", "ADAT" etc. because they had actually something to do with those hardware outs.
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Yeah, this naming only applies if the playback channels are routed 1:1 to the hardware channels in the Babyface Mixer. But you can change this routing completely. It's a quite powerful mixer!
With RME drivers you need to make sure that each application uses separate playback channels and same samplerate (if you want to use more than one applications at the same time).
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10-14-2011, 05:38 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1
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Crackings
Hello, first sorry for English.
I'm from Brazil, I bought a babyface, and I'm having problems with crackings during recordings.
Can anyone help?
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10-16-2011, 08:28 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 50
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Which buffer size are you recording at?
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