After inserting any UAD plugin, Reaper freezes for ~7sec whenever starting playback

[yetanotherjosh]

I recently got a UAD Apollo and am now using it with Reaper. It all works swimmingly, except that once I have one or more UAD plugins anywhere in my project, pressing play causes Reaper to momentarily freeze for about 7-8 seconds -- every time. After the freeze, playback begins normally. The UI is unusable during this freeze. What could be causing this?

I *suspect* Reaper is unloading and reloading the plugins when I start playback, because it is worth noting that whenever I first insert a UAD plugin into a project in any DAW, Reaper or otherwise, if it's the first plugin to be loaded there is a significant freeze delay (also about 7 seconds) while the UAD system initializes. However, in the other DAWs this delay is only on inserting the first UAD plugin, not every time I hit the spacebar to start playback.

However, I can't see anything in the preferences that would indicate the plugins are being unloaded/reloaded on playback so I might be wrong here. Plenty of people seem to be happy with Reaper+UAD in the forums so I assume there is simply some preference at fault that I've missed, although I've gone in and twiddled everything I thought could possibly be related, to no avail.

My system is Windows 7 64bit (running Reaper in 32bit mode since all my plugs are 32bit), with the Apollo connected via Firewire. I have installed the latest version of Reaper (4.402) and the latest UAD software and drivers.

Any tips or ideas are *extremely* appreciated!

[yetanotherjosh]

I found further evidence to support my suspicion that Reaper is unloading and reloading my UAD plugins on playback: if I open the DSP meter and watch it when I hit the spacebar in Reaper to begin playback, I can actually see the DSP usage report momentarily dip down and then rise back up during the 7-8 second pause in which Reaper is frozen. Clearly the UAD system is unloading and reloading the plugins!

So, that helps narrow down the problem cause, but I still can't figure out why or what setting specifically causes Reaper to do this unload/load dance on playback...

[billybk1]

I suspect using the 32bit UAD plug-ins with the Apollo may be the root of your issue. UA recommends that Apollo users utilize only the 64bit UAD plug-in versions with a 64bit DAW app for best performance. I am using the latest REAPER x64 v4.402 & UAD v7.1 (all 64bit UAD plug-ins) without any issues. Been all 64bit since I installed the Win 7 Apollo update last November. Playback is pretty instantaneous and the Apollo is working like a charm. I can drop UAD plug-ins into REAPER's FX inserts on the fly with nary a hiccup. REAPER's dynamic PDC keeps everything locked in and sample accurate.

I remember when the UAD v6.4 (UA's first all 64bit plug-in release) was released back in November, UA specifically stated that if you were using Cubase/Nuenedo 32bit that you should stick with v6.3 or earlier. I am sure that applies to all DAW apps. Being that you need to use v6.4 or later to even use the Apollo on a Win 7 x64 (SP1) OS, using a 64bit DAW app and the 64bit UAD plug-ins is the way to go for best performance.

One other thing about going 64bit, you cannot have both 64bit & 32bit UAD plug-ins being picked and scanned by your DAW app. They will conflict with each other and cause severe performance problems. It is either all 64bit or stay all 32bit (v6.3 or earlier) when it comes to UAD plug-ins.

How about installing REAPER x64 4.402 and just using the UAD 64bit versions.
Stay all 64bit and see if that solves the issue. If it does not, then you will know there is another underlying issue going on.

I bit the bullet and went all 64bit (OS, DAW app & plug-ins) last November.
It gave me a chance to get rid of all the plug-in clutter I had acummulated over the years. I use all 64bit versions and for the few 32bit plug-ins that are not 64bit yet that I wanted to keep, I use the REAPER 32bit to 64bit plug-in bridge. Although, I only have a hand full of those, as I don't really like using plug-in bridges, if at all possible.

Also, do install the mono (m)versions and use them on mono tracks in REAPER when possible. They use a less DSP than using the standard versions. Use the standard versions on stereo tracks.

As far as REAPER goes, I pretty much use the default Playback & Buffer settings for best performance. I typically, use 44/24 most of the time.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

[yetanotherjosh]

Originally Posted by billybk1

I suspect using the 32bit UAD plug-ins with the Apollo may be the root of your issue.

Hm, that was a good suggestion and as soon as I read it I jumped to give it a try. I re-installed the UAD v7.10 software, and then told Reaper where the 64bit plugins live, and removed the 32bit UAD plugins from the directory I keep my 32bit plugins in (so as not to create a conflict, as you suggested.) And I confirmed it's now using the 64bit UAD plugins because there's no window bridging going on.

Unfortunately, the behavior is exactly the same . I still get a good long freeze up every time I hit the spacebar.

FWIW I have been using the 32bit UAD plugins in 32bit Ableton Live for a while now without any problems. There is something specific about Reaper which is causing UAD to drop and reprocess its loaded plugin set at the beginning of playback. The same freezeup occurs whenever I try to scrub the playback position, too.

Thanks for your help regardless.

[billybk1]

Originally Posted by yetanotherjosh

FWIW I have been using the 32bit UAD plugins in 32bit Ableton Live for a while now without any problems. There is something specific about Reaper which is causing UAD to drop and reprocess its loaded plugin set at the beginning of playback. The same freezeup occurs whenever I try to scrub the playback position, too.

Are there some esoteric settings that you have made to REAPER's Preferences that differ from the defaults? If the UAD plug-ins are working in other DAW apps (Live), then there must be some REAPER Preferences changes that you made that are causing issues with the UAD drivers. Try re-naming your REAPER.ini file (say to "REAPER2.ini") and re-start REAPER. A new one will be automatically created using the default settings. You can always delete it later and simply re-name the previous one to get back your settings. Once you re-start REAPER set the Apollo as your ASIO audio device and enter the plug-in path for the UAD plug-ins and re-scan. Now see if you can use the UAD plug-ins without the delay.

REAPER.ini x64 path: C:\Documents and Settings\Billy\AppData\Roaming\REAPER

Cheers,

Billy Buck

[yetanotherjosh]

Originally Posted by billybk1

Try re-naming your REAPER.ini file (say to "REAPER2.ini") and re-start REAPER. A new one will be automatically created using the default settings.

Thanks Billy that was another helpful suggestion. I could easily have mucked up my preferences, so I tried this, and Reaper definitely picked up all new defaults (I had to setup the audio device again and point out the VST folder as you said), but the problem persists.

Woe!

[Frogman]

Hey guys, just found a new UAD-2 laying around the studio...

Im having the same exact issue. Any more ideas? If it works in other DAWs I dont think it could be a FW issue?

I poked around in the UAD configuration, tried different settings, no change.

Thanks!

[Frogman]

Ok here is something interesting... yetanotherjosh if you are still having this issue let me know.

It seems the only time playback hangs for 7 seconds is when ONE instance of UAD is inserted. Add two and playback is instant. Strange? Seems like the more you add the faster it gets.

Let me know if you experience this.

[seb_revenant]

I know I'm kind of late to the party, but I have experienced the same problem.
It's so annoying that I got to have at least two UAD plugins in my session, to enable them to work properly. I usually always get to the point of havin more than 1 UAD plugin in a session tho.
But that issue is still annoying :/

[ivansc]

If memory serves, (DAW is home in the UK) there IS a compatibility setting for UAD1, which is what I have - 2 of them - but I have never needed to use it as mine both play nice.
Might be worth a try though...pretty sure it is in the plugins menu of preferences/options (or is it options/preferences?)

EDIT: Forgot I now have Reaper on this lappy too!
It is indeed in that window, so give it a go.

[yetanotherjosh]

Originally Posted by Frogman

Ok here is something interesting... yetanotherjosh if you are still having this issue let me know.

It seems the only time playback hangs for 7 seconds is when ONE instance of UAD is inserted. Add two and playback is instant. Strange? Seems like the more you add the faster it gets.

Let me know if you experience this.

Holy crap you're right. Wow. I abandoned Reaper over this years ago, and years later I decided to try it again. Same UAD plugin issue... but only when there's ONE plugin! I never realized adding another would solve it. Wow.

Thanks for the tip, even if it took 4 years for me to see it!

[ivansc]

This is so weird.... I am still using my 2 UAD1 pci-e cards under reaper 5.4 with a Win10 Pro machine - all running 64bit - and still dont have this problem! I am not even using the UAD1 compatibility mode either. Would love to know what is different between your system and mine....

[yetanotherjosh]

Originally Posted by ivansc

This is so weird.... I am still using my 2 UAD1 pci-e cards under reaper 5.4 with a Win10 Pro machine - all running 64bit - and still dont have this problem! I am not even using the UAD1 compatibility mode either. Would love to know what is different between your system and mine....

That's a great question. I'm chasing another problem with using my UAD plugins in Reaper, too, over here http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=190543

My system looks like:
- Win 7 Pro 64bit SP1 (could it be the OS???)
- Apollo quad silver Firewire, UAD software v9.02
- Reaper 5.40

I have no real issues using UAD plugins in Ableton Live. But Reaper's multicore utilization for native plugins is far superior to Ableton afaics, which is why I'm trying to switch, because I'm starting to use more CPU hungry native plugins.

[zakb]

Originally Posted by yetanotherjosh

Holy crap you're right. Wow. I abandoned Reaper over this years ago, and years later I decided to try it again. Same UAD plugin issue... but only when there's ONE plugin! I never realized adding another would solve it. Wow.

Thanks for the tip, even if it took 4 years for me to see it!

Just a +1 on this thread- I get a 2 second delay before playback with one UAD plugin as well. Two UAD plugins solves the problem. Win7 64, 8-Core Xeon, latest UAD and Reaper versions. I suspect it's FireWire related as well.

[ivansc]

Could well be - the only difference I can see between my system that works 100% and always has done and you guys is that I am on pci-e UAD cards. FWIW I have a liquidmix on my Mac which I have never gotten round to installing on Windows10 but I will try it - TI chipset card - when I get a few minutes.

In the meantime it might be worth reviewing your FW setups for dud cables and/or conflicts from other devices wanting to use the FW bus.

[grinder]

No Problems here windows 7 pro SP2

Grinder