Free Video - How to get precise automation levels

[Kenny Gioia]

Precise Automation Levels in your DAW | KennyMania

It starts with Pro Tools but I get to Reaper in the sceond half.

Thanks for the support.

[hopi]

nice one Kenny, ...thanks for sharing it.

[Jeffsounds]

Very cool, Kenny! The Reaper section starts at about 9:30.

Just curious, how did you get just one fader to appear like that in Reaper?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

Very cool, Kenny! The Reaper section starts at about 9:30.

Just curious, how did you get just one fader to appear like that in Reaper?

That's just the mixer, separated from the dock, and resized to only see one of them.

[Dynsdale]

Very neat , thank you

[Tod]

Thanks Kenny, I enjoyed that.

Heh heh, when you put the tape on the fader it brought back memories and I knew where you were going with this, I wasn't disappointed in what I learned.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Tod

Thanks Kenny, I enjoyed that.

Heh heh, when you put the tape on the fader it brought back memories and I knew where you were going with this, I wasn't disappointed in what I learned.

He heh

Yeah. Me too.

[BenK-msx]

interesting - the consistant smooth return is the plus.

in reaper at least i tend to time select, then in an envelope lane move 4 points (with fader or by shift-ctrl) for that kind of thing (bring parts up/down). but you do then have jumps to then deal with, granted - but the time to move few points left or right when needed seems acceptable

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by BenK-msx

interesting - the consistant smooth return is the plus.

in reaper at least i tend to time select, then in an envelope lane move 4 points (with fader or by shift-ctrl) for that kind of thing (bring parts up/down). but you do then have jumps to then deal with, granted - but the time to move few points left or right when needed seems acceptable

I actually made that video more for people who don't like to draw automation and instead prefer to do everything with faders. Your way is certainly quicker.

In fact, check this out as a way to quickly make those transitions using your keystroke:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49393474/Smooth.mov

[Lawrence]

This should be easy enough to do manually except for Reaper's kinda wacky selection editing. Below, if I select those two nodes I should be able to set them to any value. But it only sets one of them...



With selection editing it's not WYSIWYG, which is confusing. It probably should be that though, always apply edits to all things that are selected...



But your video makes for a really nice general FR. To write automation but also enter literal upper and lower ceiling values where the fader stops, to literally set the fader travel range, that would be cool.

[heda]

The advantage of a computer DAW, among many more things is that it has mouse and keyboard. Why do you want to use it as a console? I find it easier to just input the values in the automation if I need precise levels. I don't understand.
You could even create custom actions to insert automation precise points at play cursor position with a key shortcut in realtime too.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by heda

Why do you want to use it as a console?

Not everybody wants to deal with envelopes. They like faders and not having to look at the screen as much.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Not everybody wants to deal with envelopes. They like faders and not having to look at the screen as much.

True. Isn't that kinda what PT's "Glide" automation is for? To jump from one value to another, with a fader, but not have an abrupt jump in the envelope?

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

True. Isn't that kinda what PT's "Glide" automation is for? To jump from one value to another, with a fader, but not have an abrupt jump in the envelope?

Yes.

BTW - I have a good friend who uses Pro Tools and is blind. 100% blind. No monitor at all.

I think he preferes faders.

The problem with drawing is that you don't hear it until after you drew it. Faders allows you to find the sweet spot with your ears.

[Lawrence]

Yeah. One thing about automation that maybe some overlook is the "musical" aspect of it. Often times you really do want to automate with faders and controls for musical purposes, something you can't always do as well drawing envelopes.

Sometimes you just "feel" something and do it, like playing an instrument, so yeah, playing automation in real time is certainly of value. I recall writing mute automation on my d8b and accidentally hitting something that sounded very cool, something I probably would have never done if I had been doing it offline with the mouse.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

Not everybody wants to deal with envelopes. They like faders and not having to look at the screen as much.

I'd be one of those since I came from a world where only faders existed. Most of the time, I prefer to arm, move fader and so on. It is also a welcomed change from super visual information overload. If I had a bigger controller, and more options, I'd turn the computer monitor off at times.

[heda]

Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia

The problem with drawing is that you don't hear it until after you drew it. Faders allows you to find the sweet spot with your ears.

ok. but if you need to find the sweet spot by ear you don't need precise predefined levels...

I understand that defining minimum and maximum values (like the tape trick) is desirable too.

[Lawrence]

Anyway, I think Kenny's video may have inadvertently stumbled on something there. A new automation mode, "Range"?

Switch the fader to "Touch" + "Range" mode, where you get a popup to set the upper and lower range limits. In that mode the automation writing for that channel's fader only works between the set range limits and punches out when you hit those upper or lower limits.

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by heda

ok. but if you need to find the sweet spot by ear you don't need precise predefined levels...

I understand that defining minimum and maximum values (like the tape trick) is desirable too.

I can't really disagree with anything other than to say that many people just prefer to work differently.

Especially in Pro Tools, many people came from real consoles and are only looking to mimic that behavior. Not to take it any further.

[heda]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Anyway, I think Kenny's video may have inadvertently stumbled on something there. A new automation mode, "Range"?

Switch the fader to "Touch" + "Range" mode, where you get a popup to set the upper and lower range limits. In that mode the automation writing for that channel's fader only works between the set range limits and punches out when you hit those upper or lower limits.

yes. Interesting indeed. Also for live situations. edit: the range option. not automating live

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Anyway, I think Kenny's video may have inadvertently stumbled on something there. A new automation mode, "Range"?

Let's get "Trim Mode" first.

[BenK-msx]

yeh could see you wanted to do this at the fader but then you went into the envelope and thought it was worth a mention

that deleting points trick is nice, i suppose i never presume my automation will be the same anywhere and is material dependant, so just bite the bullet and get zoomed in.
i believe with a macro or script you can automate that a bit, but all i could get afer a quick look was a non-consistant zoom dependant 'fade', which was ok but no ok enough.

obviously if the clock is running and 12 more mixes to do before lunch you may want to avoid any manual pointy stuff, but am used to it, and don't have that level of time constraint!

[BenK-msx]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Anyway, I think Kenny's video may have inadvertently stumbled on something there. A new automation mode, "Range"?

Switch the fader to "Touch" + "Range" mode, where you get a popup to set the upper and lower range limits. In that mode the automation writing for that channel's fader only works between the set range limits and punches out when you hit those upper or lower limits.

all faders having a range option would be handy.
achieved with a bit of r-clicking on fader.

could have some horrible looking flags at top and bottom to show.

[Lazz]

But your video makes for a really nice general FR. To write automation but also enter literal upper and lower ceiling values where the fader stops, to literally set the fader travel range, that would be cool.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the vid Kenny...Love your stuff keep it up!

I would love to know how to set a key command, or whatever you call it, to do this ^^^

Basically with 1 command and 4 point WITH the fade curve when grabbing or entering the value just like in this vid?

Thanks guy!

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Lazz

Thanks for the vid Kenny...Love your stuff keep it up!

I would love to know how to set a key command, or whatever you call it, to do this ^^^

Basically with 1 command and 4 point WITH the fade curve when grabbing or entering the value just like in this vid?

Thanks guy!

I would bet I could do that with what Reaper already offers.

I'll try tomorrow.

I think sometimes we spend too much time asking for feauture requests and not enough time figuring out how it can be done with what's already in there.

Now if this was Pro Tools, I'd say it couldn't be done. In Reaper, I'd bet it can.

[airon]

The method of producing values by changing the fader before playback is a little risky in Reaper, and that goes for FX automation too.

Here's what happens if you have data further on.




So if there were items further down, I'd have a sliding volume change I didn't need. When I experimented with Reaper I found things like this with EQ changes, so that was a hoot to fix. This is one of the reasons I almost NEVER do anything in Reaper automation when transport is stopped. It's just too risky.

I shall endeavour for Justin, Schwa and Jeffos to give people the option to have the Automation Return Speed be respected even when transport is stopped. Unless that is already in and I didn't catch it.

None of this would be an issue with the preview mode that's part of the Automation request.

[airon]

Well, this is now fixed in 5.0pre10 with anoption. Hail to the king baby.