Why do people doubt Reaper?

[MikComposer]

@bluzkat
You are sounding irrational and like a fanboy. When I bought reaper 4 years ago I did not see any annotation stating that "this is only a hobby project so expect it not working properly", and I still not there. Instead, there are highlights of ho professional reaper is and why we should buy it.

[csa]

Originally Posted by Melbu21

I was just speaking to a really nice tech support person from an unnamed company, and they essentially told me my problem was due to me not using a "professional" DAW.

Reaper is probably the single best piece of software I own. I think we could all agree that Reaper is fantastic. Most of us probably use it on a professional level daily.

So why do so many people doubt it? My only guess is ignorance--they just don't know enough about it and haven't used it. Which is fine by me--their loss .

Anyways, Reaper rocks and I'm glad to use it =). Any other theories as to why people are so skeptical about it?

I have used three Daw (Ableton, FL Studio & Reaper) for
one hour each to determine which I would buy.
I'm not crazy about Ableton or FL Studio but they work.

Why I despise Reaper
1. It does not work with the controls on my launch key keyboard.
2. It does not work with my launch pad.
3. Using reaper is an adventure in research.

[msundh]

I don't think it is so strange considering the price difference. If all the established DAWs are at a much higher price level, it's natural to dismiss Reaper as a toy DAW. The price was the reason for me to try out Reaper together with the generous trial approach.

[novaburst]

Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe

people are idiots and people are blahblahing what they have heard from someone who has heard from someone who knows someone who is the cousin of a "pro" ...

so what do you expect? my answer to such kind of people is: shut the fuck up! you are stupid!

yep, thats rude. but at least I didnt hit them ... so I am considering me as being very nice to stupid people ... I usually dont make that many friends that way.

(sorry, I am a bit pissed, because we have here in Germany actual a massive problem with stupid people trying to organise the stupidity in our country ... I think I go and hit some of them ... its dark outside ... so ... no, I never would do that. )

Wow thats quite a statement people are idiots because they dont trust reaper

you sound like your cooked up on drugs, we all have choices dude and because some one made a choice does not make them an idiot,

reaper is a DAW not a person, it cant feel you or here you, stop protecting it like its your wife or some thing reaper does not need you.

[derek.john.evans]

So why do so many people doubt it? My only guess is ignorance

My guess is, the same people think their sports fashion will make them athlete's.

[swampstomper]

Originally Posted by chip mcdonald

Why Waves completely shuns Reaper is a curious thing, because there is no logical-software based reason to do so

Waves tech support told me that Reaper is not an officially supported host "because it is constantly changing and does not follow the VST SDK the same as Steinberg "

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by swampstomper

Waves tech support told me that Reaper is not an officially supported host "because it is constantly changing and does not follow the VST SDK the same as Steinberg "

What puzzles me is why anyone cares?

On the one hand, Waves is (according to many here) a company selling overpriced plugins that anyone can replace with cheaper stuff, and ReaPlugs are just as good and Waves are just flashy UI's right? On the other hand people are highly annoyed or feel slighted (?) because the company doesn't officially support their fave daw?

Seems rather contradictory, those two viewpoints.

For people who rail so often against the big machine they seem to also really, really care if the big machine recognizes them or not, what the big machine thinks about them?

"You guys are robber barons and cheats and dishonest business people. Please officially support the product I like though because, well, I need to feel worthy of the big overpriced hype machine stuff so all the morons buying it will respect what I use. Those people aren't as wise as me but I care what they think about what I use, so support my current pet daw and correct this."

I'm not sure which is worse, the high level guys snubbing their noses at others or those who always feel the need to prove they are worthy of the people they claim they don't even care about.

[morgon]

Originally Posted by csa

Why I despise Reaper
1. It does not work with the controls on my launch key keyboard.
2. It does not work with my launch pad.
3. Using reaper is an adventure in research.

Are you trying to make music or put satellites into orbit?

Once youre actually recording something at ground level though you should be glad of Reapers stability, I cant overstate that, editing on the fly with confidence is a big deal, loop recording with confidence is a big deal, Reaper is strong at the core, then theres the myriad of things you can do with it, maybe even launch a satellite, if you get the routing right

[ivansc]

The only odd thing about this at all is that CSA bothered coming here in the first place just to post that he doesnt like Reaper.

One might almost think he was trolling, but I am pretty sure he isn't.

[bluzkat]

Originally Posted by MikComposer

@bluzkat
You are sounding irrational and like a fanboy. When I bought reaper 4 years ago I did not see any annotation stating that "this is only a hobby project so expect it not working properly", and I still not there. Instead, there are highlights of ho professional reaper is and why we should buy it.

Dude, I guess you don't get it either.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth... I never said anything about Reaper being a "hobby project".

Later!

[thequietroom]

Originally Posted by csa

I have used three Daw (Ableton, FL Studio & Reaper) for
one hour each to determine which I would buy.
I'm not crazy about Ableton or FL Studio but they work.

Why I despise Reaper
1. It does not work with the controls on my launch key keyboard.
2. It does not work with my launch pad.
3. Using reaper is an adventure in research.

An hour doesnt give you much.. You could probably get help in the forum to get it working with your hardware but instead you just drop a troll post. 3. What research have you done? it certainly hasnt been in the forum.

[ginormous]

These people are trying to maintain the pro/amateur paradigm, as it existed in the past. That's what remains to keep their existence justified.

Reaper and other DAWs are strongly challenging PT with regard to bang for the buck. Now that things are in the box, the only things left to nit-pick the hardware and software used to record music, rather than the equipment or the studio used to record.

A person with knowledge and talent can make a recording with Reaper that sounds good. The only limitations now are imagination and experience.

[Kundalinguist]

There is also a Youtube video circulating wherein the Amazing Randi is debunking Reaper as being a professional DAW. He's offering no proof, but he sounds believable.


[This is a joke. If you don't know it is a joke, please take your medication in the dosage as recommended by your personal audio sales representative.]

[Lawrence]

What JCS (or whatever the current 3 letters are ) have done here is amazing. They made a really, really great product and they're not done yet.

But let's not live in Disneyland where any 3 or 4 guys can beat the thousands of highly skilled professional developers at a company like Apple or Yamaha across the board. They're not done yet either. That would be the true pinnacle of extreme fanboyism.

Repeat these this phase 20 times while rubbing your tummy, you'll feel better ...

"Reaper is really great. I love it. It's not the greatest software ever made in the history of time and actually doesn't even have to be."

[MikComposer]

Originally Posted by bluzkat

Dude, I guess you don't get it either.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth... I never said anything about Reaper being a "hobby project".

Later!

You were just excusing reapers problems.

[The Telenator]

Q: Why do people doubt Reaper?

A: Because musicians, audio people and the music business in general is packed full of idiots, mythmakers. myth-believers, obsessives, and -- maybe worst of all -- the extremely superstitious (oh, and ignorant parrots). Yes, it's worse than professional sports.

And, for the record, I've encountered more bugs in Pro Tools and then in Cubase than anything I've seen here. What's worse is their bugs are usually much more serious and work-damaging.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by MikComposer

You were just excusing reapers problems.

There is more to being smart about purchasing that the words on a home page. The trial version is so you can make the decision then bail for what works better for you. But if you don't bail, you're own fault because I would under no circumstances be as disappointed as you appear to be and still be using whatever I had such problems with 3 years later. If Reaper didn't work for me, I'd be gone in a skinny minute.

That's how I got here, I felt like you about some other product but I didn't complain either, I just left. The silent customers are the ones to worry about.

[MikComposer]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

There is more to being smart about purchasing that the words on a home page. The trial version is so you can make the decision then bail for what works better for you. But if you don't bail, you're own fault because I would under no circumstances be as disappointed as you appear to be and still be using whatever I had such problems with 3 years later. If Reaper didn't work for me, I'd be gone in a skinny minute.

That's how I got here, I felt like you about some other product but I didn't complain either, I just left. The silent customers are the ones to worry about.

I did use trail for a while, a month or so. In a way reaper was my first daw, although I used FL quite a bit before, also a tiny bit of nuendo. Also reaper is so convoluted and so full of weird solutions ( at least from composer/arranger point of view ) that it took me some time before I learned about the issues - about a year, year and a half. Anyway, it needs to have tighter and smoother: viewing while in playback, midi editor, cc lanes/automation made in to one, with spacier ui ( as I said 2px bigger active areas will do the job), easier way of adding notes, with fixed overlapping midi notes issue so they wont turn in to 1px wide bar, default automation bar not setting itself in relation with volume slider. Those are basics for anyone doing composition, like cinematic stuff etc. For bands recording and mixing/mastering I'm sure reaper is good enough.

[bluzkat]

Originally Posted by MikComposer

You were just excusing reapers problems.

No I was trying to explain why Reaper is 'different' and not like the commercial DAWs. I don't see anywhere I was trying to excuse Reaper's problems.

Geez!

[chip mcdonald]

Dunning-Kruger is a powerful force in the modern world of "musicians".

[gofer]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

What puzzles me is why anyone cares?

On the one hand, Waves is (according to many here) a company selling overpriced plugins that anyone can replace with cheaper stuff, and ReaPlugs are just as good and Waves are just flashy UI's right? On the other hand people are highly annoyed or feel slighted (?) because the company doesn't officially support their fave daw?

Seems rather contradictory, those two viewpoints.

For people who rail so often against the big machine they seem to also really, really care if the big machine recognizes them or not, what the big machine thinks about them?

Not the first time you seem surprised that there are contradicting viewpoints expressed in the forum. I always wonder why. My own opinion about Waves will contradict both statements you mention. Go figure.

[MikComposer]

Originally Posted by gofer

Not the first time you seem surprised that there are contradicting viewpoints expressed in the forum. I always wonder why. My own opinion about Waves will contradict both statements you mention. Go figure.

Waves plugins sound great. Their algorithms make a difference. And yes, they work sometimes weird in reaper.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by gofer

Not the first time you seem surprised that there are contradicting viewpoints expressed in the forum. I always wonder why. My own opinion about Waves will contradict both statements you mention. Go figure.

I've always thought waves were a little bit odd with the shims etc. that they require that no one else does. I used them back in 2004 ish. Of course the Mercury bundle was 10k back then but I won't call that overpriced since they are down to 6100.00 now, pennies I tell ya.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by gofer

Not the first time you seem surprised that there are contradicting viewpoints expressed in the forum. I always wonder why. My own opinion about Waves will contradict both statements you mention. Go figure.

If Waves plugins didn't work with my daw of choice I'd simply not buy them anymore. The "they don't support us" stuff seems to be more about perception or recognition than anything practical.

So yes, it surprises me why some (not all) care so much about such things.

I'd ask them, if you bought Waves recently why did you buy a thing that didn't officially support the thing you work daily in? If you're new to Reaper and already had Waves I'd say, that's just bad luck.

Is there anyone here who actually can't get their work done because Waves doesn't "officially" support Reaper?

[rvman]

I use two DAW's. Reason 8 and Reaper. An amazing combination.

Reason is my main daw and Reaper I use for VST stuff and features that aren't available or very good in Reason. BOTH are exceptional regarding low cpu use on my laptop.

I would say my only personal issue with Reaper would be the look of the plugin box. I hate that. But I don't let it stop me. And Reaper hasn't crashed on me yet. It's been very stable and smooth.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by The Byre

In economics it is called 'The Snob Effect' and is an a perceived increase in value of an item with an increase in price. The most notable example I can think of, is when Gibson increased the price of their guitars and this lead to an increase in sales.

There is truth in that. There's also the "reverse snob effect" where some imply that most using higher cost things are likely snobs, and it can't ever possibly be the case that some of those higher priced things actually are better in some measurable ways.

[serr]

Originally Posted by The Telenator

Q: Why do people doubt Reaper?

A: Because musicians, audio people and the music business in general is packed full of idiots, mythmakers. myth-believers, obsessives, and -- maybe worst of all -- the extremely superstitious (oh, and ignorant parrots). Yes, it's worse than professional sports.

And, for the record, I've encountered more bugs in Pro Tools and then in Cubase than anything I've seen here. What's worse is their bugs are usually much more serious and work-damaging.

I'm trying to imagine the parallel in pro sports for a drum machine and autotune.


So you'll just have all these scrawny wimpy guys on the football field and then they just turn on 'autoathlete'...

[Cosmic]

Its been a while since we had one of these threads

I am impressed by some of the old schoolers(you know who you are)still bothering to get involved.

[dea-man]

That's it! I'm cutting straight to Edison Wax Cylinders from now on!

[rvman]

Originally Posted by dea-man

That's it! I'm cutting straight to Edison Wax Cylinders from now on!

Is that an Apple product? The iWax? Seems I've read about that. Maybe it was from an SOS review.

[grinder]

Amazing powers of observation and in-depth analysis I can tell you now
Apples are waxed before storage in New Zealand.....
No power chords I am still searching I know they are somewhere...


Grinder Anon

[rightonthemark]

i started on sonar.
it was free with the first usb audio interface i bought.
being a free version it had track & vst plugin limitations.
when i outgrew those limitations i went on a search for something to replace it.
reaper was not only economical but was a rather seamless transition.
it does everything i need it to do.
--- i can record multiple tracks simultaneously
--- i can mix using both free & proprietary vst plug-ins
--- easy customizable workflow makes it my preferred choice
i have since tried some other daws.
--- cubase (because it came with my second usb audio interface i bought)
not that i didn't like it but saw nothing there worth leaving reaper for; especially since that free version had similar imitations as the free version of sonar.
--- studio one 2 artist (got it on the cinco de mayo $5 sale)
i figured five bucks...why not? i hate it. never got comfortable with it and nothing i found worth leaving reaper for.
--- harrison mixbus - (got it on sale for $20)
i so wanted to like it. & while i don't hate it, nothing about was worth transitioning away from reaper for it.

i don't know what people mean by reaper's bugs.
i've not run into one yet.
but then again i don't do anything midi.
as for recording & mixing...it works quite well.

rotm

[Gazebo]

Smoke and mirrors.

I always think about some of the recordings that have stood the test of time like Elvis Presleys Sun recordings and anything by the Beatles.

All recorded on equipment with a fraction of the capabilities of most home studios today.

True they had some nice hardware, but with all things musical it's not the gear you have, but your ability (talent) to put it to use that counts.

I found Reaper really easy to use (though I use about 10% of its features I think), easier than Sonar (which is considered professional I think) and more intuitive to me than Studio One.

[Retro Audio Enthusiast]

I also have to mention the suspicious low-post-count members who post negative posts usually on the main forum with negative titles like 'Reaper Not Good' or 'Reaper Is Useless', 'Reaper Unstable' etc.

Sounds like DAW competitor's company moles, spreading negative feedback to put potential users off Reaper.

Without mentioning any names, I've seen this mode of behaviour before- some famous cases on KVR and elsewhere, where the company mole was revealed and disgraced.

[EcBaPr]

Originally Posted by MikComposer

I'm having hard times with reaper interface. I'm finding it to be not very "forgiving", which is other way to say that is clunky. I used to design interfaces for websites, so I know a lot about good ux. It really drags down the whole experience. Another thing is that whole program is very convoluted with many contradicting and again, not user friendly, design decisions and logic. Here's hoping R5 will fix all of that, and bring good workflow. Potential is there.

totally agree.. reaper would benefit a lot from a redesign with the more advanced features set back further from the main UI..

Currently the program itself gets in the way of the user too much. It's too easy to click on something and be confronted with a mountain of options and your average mix engineer or musician doesn't want their headspace to be drawn into software geeksville, they want to remain in a musical train of thought.. when you need more advanced features its great to know you can dig another layer or two into the application and find detail but on the surface it should be simplified and more transparent.

[loudnoise]

I tried to work with PT 8 for 4 years,it cost a lot of money,and always troubled,
like scientology u pay and pay and never reach freedom.
My christmas present after years of trouble.Reaper is the best,install and works from first day on perfect,60$ haha,
good people,good forum,good company.I love it.
Thank u cockos und all the happy users.

Originally Posted by martifingers

The BBC disagree:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/introduci...rdingsoftware/

Otherwise it's probably to do with the low cost and innovative marketing model that Cuckos have. And ignorance mostly...

[slatepipe]

i pretty much use ableton about 80-90% of the time but i like using reaper a lot too. reaper has some great stuff that ableton lacks which i enjoy using - the crossfades, free item positioning, midi and audio in one track, its metering, file conversion etc. there's probably plenty more stuff it can do which ableton lacks but this is my experience. but then there is stuff that ableton can do which reaper just cant - the session view for jamming, the mfl integration which allows me to do stuff like program my own controllers, just to pluck two examples out of the air

if im recording straight in to the pc i'll normally use reaper then fling the finished recording into ableton to play around with it further

pro tools? pffft.... they tried to encourage us to use it the other year at college for various projects but whatever i tried to do using it i always thought 'i can do this easier in ableton'

for me, using ableton with a bit of reaper is a great combination. and yeah, and also this forum currently seems to be a bit better/secure....some prick keeps spamming the ableton one at the moment

if anyone has any more info on new reaper versions possibly having better video editing then please let me know because i'd be very excited about that

cheers

[ivansc]

There is a section in this very forum......

[The Telenator]

Originally Posted by serr

... all these scrawny wimpy guys on the football field and then they just turn on 'autoathlete'...

I'll bet they would if they could. But these people have actual 'rules' in their field. That limits them to things less likely noticed, such as deflating footballs.

[hopi]

I don't doubt Reaper

...but maybe I'm not a 'people'...