Old 11-06-2014, 10:27 AM   #1
Walt_43
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Default Preparing for mixing

Hi all, in any videos I've seen about mixing, engineers have usually rendered all their MIDI tracks to audio. So basically, they have a multi-track version of their composition that contains only rendered audio tracks.

But my question is this: is there an easy way to convert your composition to audio-only (still multi-track) or do you have to render each and every MIDI track to stems separately?

Also, when you do this, does it render the MIDI without any effects or sends you've set up, so that you can still have control over these after rendering?

Sorry if I'm not making this clear enough, but any advice on how to best prepare your composition for mixing would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,
Walt
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:44 PM   #2
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The easiest way is to freeze all your midi tracks. You can select multiple tracks to freeze, though as far as I can tell you have to freeze stereo and mono tracks separately.
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:26 PM   #3
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Freezing the tracks will render all the effects on the channel. Vsti, eq, comp,verb, etc. If you have sends setup to another tracks for verb or something, that will still be active after the freeze... And should react the same way.
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Old 11-07-2014, 03:13 AM   #4
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Thanks, guys. I don't want to render the effects with the MIDI data, so I assume disabling all effects (from the FX buttons on each track) would prevent this? Although if I then want to re-enable those effects on the rendered tracks, I assume I'd have to copy them across individually?

I suppose I was hoping for a menu selection like: OPTIONS > PROJECT > PREPARE THIS MOTHER FOR MIXING. :-D

Thanks a mill.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt_43 View Post
Thanks, guys. I don't want to render the effects with the MIDI data, so I assume disabling all effects (from the FX buttons on each track) would prevent this? Although if I then want to re-enable those effects on the rendered tracks, I assume I'd have to copy them across individually?

I suppose I was hoping for a menu selection like: OPTIONS > PROJECT > PREPARE THIS MOTHER FOR MIXING. :-D

Thanks a mill.
Why don't you want to render the fx?
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:28 AM   #6
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The reason for freezing the track is so you can make changes to effects if you need to. You will have to refreeze the track, but its possible.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:58 AM   #7
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Hi Judders, the reason is that I may want to adjust the effects during mixing, depending on how things are sounding. For instance, I may increase the volume level of one track, but now think that there's too much reverb and want to change the tail length, or I might be using EQ and want to change that, so I'd prefer not to render the effects with the source. Hope that makes sense as I'm a newbie when it comes to mixing.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:14 AM   #8
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I never render my MIDI stuff to audio before mixing.

In my opinion, if you have a powerful enough computer to handle it there is no reason to. And when deciding to change something in the composition while mixing (does happen here) I don't have to go back to MIDI first.

I do freeze stuff occasionally though when running out of CPU.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt_43 View Post
Hi Judders, the reason is that I may want to adjust the effects during mixing, depending on how things are sounding. For instance, I may increase the volume level of one track, but now think that there's too much reverb and want to change the tail length, or I might be using EQ and want to change that, so I'd prefer not to render the effects with the source. Hope that makes sense as I'm a newbie when it comes to mixing.
Sure, that makes sense.

There are many ways to skin this cat. Some people work with software instruments and never render or freeze them, if you've got the processing power to do that then there's nothing wrong with it.

I like to keep the tracking and mixing phases very separate, but others like to tweak and mix as they compose. I find I end up getting distracted with getting everything to sound good and lose my creative momentum if I do that.

Two solutions for you that I can think of: either use bus sends for all your fx, or save your fx chains, freeze tracks dry, then add the chain to the frozen track (which is a bit of a hassle).

I tend to track as dry as possible, but if I do have fx I just print and live with it. Too many options come mix time can leave you chasing your tail. When composing/tracking I very rarely use any EQ or compression, only fx necessary for the part like delay, phaser or whatever. I do this because I can't make clear judgements until everything in the mix is there before me. Context is everything!
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
I never render my MIDI stuff to audio before mixing.

In my opinion, if you have a powerful enough computer to handle it there is no reason to. And when deciding to change something in the composition while mixing (does happen here) I don't have to go back to MIDI first.

I do freeze stuff occasionally though when running out of CPU.
Ha! Beat me to it

I prefer to commit to a sound during the "tracking" phase. For me, it helps avoid endless twiddling and tail-chasing.

Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:58 AM   #11
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Thanks Judders and nofish; some excellent comments there and real food for thought.

I'm just thinking: some of the videos I'm watching about mixing (such as Pensado's excellent series) are probably showing audio-only because those guys wouldn't have their clients' host of VSTs and VSTis, so they *have to* receive an audio-only version.

Granted, working with the rendered tracks does look like a cleaner way to work, but I too considered the fact that if you decided at any point you needed to change the MIDI, you'd have to unfreeze, edit and then re-freeze. Not the worst thing in the world, but a bit of hassle when you've so much else to be doing.

So maybe I'll just stick to mixing MIDI and audio (vocals, guitar, etc.) together and only freeze tracks if I run out of CPU for adding effects towards the end.

As a newbie, you sometimes don't have confidence in what you're doing until someone points out that the way you're working is fine. You've all made some excellent points here and I feel better armed to go on with the mixing now.

Thanks very much for your help!
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:00 AM   #12
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I like to commit before mixing.

There's enough things to think about without also second guessing your production decisions. Aside from that, if you're doing good housekeeping you'll commit it all to audio at some point anyway, future proof your hit song.
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:09 AM   #13
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Thanks, Lawrence. So how do you handle the fx end of things? Do you render any fx with your MIDI?
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:12 AM   #14
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I never render insert FX before mixing because a lot of those settings are still up in the air and you probably should approach mixing with a different mindset anyway, and fresh ears, so those EQ and compression settings and similar that you made along the way while producing might not work.

Besides, I often start from scratch anyway, remove all insert FX and approach it all new.

Of course, all of it is personal preference. The only "wrong" thing is whatever doesn't end up well.
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:15 AM   #15
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Ha ha! Fair enough.

Have you ever re-used insert fx after rendering and if so, did you just copy those from the MIDI track to the rendered track?

I take your point about starting fresh, but sometimes you work so hard on a particular sound that it's easier to start from there and tweak, rather than starting all over again.
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt_43 View Post
Have you ever re-used insert fx after rendering and if so, did you just copy those from the MIDI track to the rendered track?
Freezing would typically keep all insert FX in place so they'd all still be there, online. Having said that, the stuff I mix in Reaper is usually audio so I don't have a lot of experience freezing in Reaper.

But usually you'd freeze and have a choice to either render the insert FX or not, and I never do that. It just turns the midi into audio and the new audio track has the same FX chain that the midi track had... so the following comment is foreign to me...

Quote:
Freezing the tracks will render all the effects on the channel. Vsti, eq, comp,verb, etc.
It depends on how freeze works in Reaper really. I would assume you can freeze the instrument and not freeze the insert FX. Freeze wouldn't work otherwise, if the FX chain went away after the freeze.

I guess what I'm saying is that I've never even seen a need to freeze an EQ or Comp or anything else like that along with a track... only large stuff like instruments, samplers, maybe an amp sim.

At any rate, back on topic...

My mix prep is 99% housekeeping. Bussing, naming, organizing, etc, etc.

Last edited by Lawrence; 11-07-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 08:47 AM   #17
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OK, Lawrence, sounds like I need to open the manual and find out exactly what freezing does!

Thanks a million for the response; much appreciated.
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
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some excellent comments there and real food for thought.
This thread has equally answered a bunch of my own questions. Many thanks!
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:45 AM   #19
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Another point to consider with printing virtual instruments is that with round-robin for helping VIs sound natural comes the danger that it will not sound 100% identical with consecutive plays. This could be an issue with phase, transient stacking etc, but if printed, at least the goalposts stop moving.


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Old 11-26-2014, 04:46 AM   #20
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Ha! I love when that happens, Pook. :-D You're welcome.
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine View Post
Another point to consider with printing virtual instruments is that with round-robin for helping VIs sound natural comes the danger that it will not sound 100% identical with consecutive plays. This could be an issue with phase, transient stacking etc, but if printed, at least the goalposts stop moving.
Yes, and you could prevent unwanted change-errors.
Yet, I'm not freezing the vstis/midi nowadays.
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