Looking for advice on double- tracking vocals/lead instruments

viscofisy · 08-10-2015, 09:22 AM

I've googled but I can't find any good tutorials on the basic concepts/useful settings for double tracking lead vocals or instruments that are supposed to be at the centre of a mix.

I understand that I have to get two near identical takes - but what are the recommendations after that regarding panning, relative volume between the takes, EQing, phase etc etc?

Is one track meant to be a kind of support in the background for the main track?

If the basic concept is "thickening" through slight differences in pitch then I'm not sure why panning is neccessary, but then I don't have any experience at this (and I'd rather not spend days messing around

)

I remember reading what seemed like interesting advice on the forum before, including whispering a track while recording vocals, and suggestions for panning/eq etc (iirc they were quite complicated instructions), but I can't find it now.

Any good advice much appreciated.

karbomusic · 08-10-2015, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscofisy

I've googled but I can't find any good tutorials on the basic concepts/useful settings for double tracking lead vocals or instruments that are supposed to be at the centre of a mix.

Any good advice much appreciated.

I'd just double it and leave it at that to see what it sounds like. Considering something like a centered lead vocal for example, the performance inconsistencies will provide the effect all by themselves. I guess someone could go extra complex on this but I've never needed to over engineer it to make it sound right.

viscofisy · 08-10-2015, 11:21 AM

Cheers karbo, that sounds like the right amount of work for me

And would you generally have both around the same level and same eq ?

Start there and twiddle around a bit?

karbomusic · 08-10-2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Cheers karbo, that sounds like the right amount of work for me

And would you generally have both around the same level and same eq ?

Start there and twiddle around a bit?

Yep, that's where I'd start. Record track one, record a doubled version and see how they sound. The first thing is to evaluate if the performances are close enough for your liking then go from there. It's really creatively wide open once you have the two performances close enough. Once that's done it's creatively up to you and where you want to go with it. I usually keep them as-is and treat them as one at that point but that's only because the effect of the double was all I was going for.

viscofisy · 08-10-2015, 11:55 AM

Great, I'll give that a go. I'm not really looking for anything too fancy tbh - more just a "thickener".

On a side note - would you use a short delay too on vocals?.....or just experiment?
I mean, do people tend to use a delay as standard?

karbomusic · 08-10-2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscofisy

Great, I'll give that a go. I'm not really looking for anything too fancy tbh - more just a "thickener".

On a side note - would you use a short delay too on vocals?.....or just experiment?
I mean, do people tend to use a delay as standard?

On a lead vocal in general (meaning I treated the doubled result as one), I'm usually tempted to add a small short delay (150-200ms or so) to the vocal and tucking it just so you aren't really sure it is actually there. I'm somewhat hesitant to over advise though because it could go so many directions based on the mix/song you are working with.

viscofisy · 08-10-2015, 12:16 PM

Ok, I'll give all that a go.....I know there's no one size fits all, but tis good to know where other people are starting off.

innuendo · 08-10-2015, 01:54 PM

I'm not an expert, but I think the tools you choose are really up to what you want the song to sound like. If you want it to be intimate, then there is no need to "thicken" the vocal, put your energy instead into recording it right. As in choosing the right mic, the right placement and then focusing on the performance. If you want it more distanced but still "big", doubling and delay should do the job (and maybe placing the mic a little further away).
Maybe listen to some stuff in that genre and analyze how it was produced. It helps to listen on the headphones.

kirk1701 · 08-11-2015, 08:03 AM

The performance is the most important thing to focus on when "mult-ing." You'll be surprised how cool it sounds without any eq or compression.

It helps to lay down a number of takes, then choosing which two sound best together.

I always send the two tracks to a buss which then dumps into the master buss. It just helps to keep things organized. Plus when you render, it bounces from the buss, which melds the two tracks into one. Sounds brilliant.

I also like to EQ and compress the two tracks separately. After all, they'll have different peaks, so they'll require slightly different eq and compression.

Also, just jump in and try it. Try all the different panning and levelling choices available to you. You never know what will jump out at you. It's loads of fun!

viscofisy · 08-11-2015, 10:12 AM

@ innuendo and kirk - thanks chaps, I'm down with mic placement etc - more just to see what other people's defaults are, and what's advisable with double tracking (and any don'ts

)

Unfortunately I don't have much choice of mics at the moment - so I'm trying to make the best of what I've got. One of the things I'm recording apart from vocals is fiddle......so I'm interested in thickening the sound where possible, but I don't want to record a load of takes on spec, then wonder how to blend them appropriately.

I'm also using headphones for "mixing"

......most of my DAW interest is in composition and live work.

kirk1701 · 08-11-2015, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscofisy

@ innuendo and kirk - thanks chaps, I'm down with mic placement etc - more just to see what other people's defaults are, and what's advisable with double tracking (and any don'ts

)

Unfortunately I don't have much choice of mics at the moment - so I'm trying to make the best of what I've got. One of the things I'm recording apart from vocals is fiddle......so I'm interested in thickening the sound where possible, but I don't want to record a load of takes on spec, then wonder how to blend them appropriately.

I'm also using headphones for "mixing"

......most of my DAW interest is in composition and live work.

Don't be afraid to experiment. I mix on headphones too. The happy accident is a beautiful thing when recording. I wouldn't say there are any "don'ts". Let your ears be the judge. Record all the takes you want, what have you got to lose? They'll blend nicely, trust me.

The only "don't" I'd recommend is do all your doubling in on session. Track everything in the same spot at one time. That way you won't get weird ambient noise on one track that isn't on another. Watch the soundwave closely and sing/play along. You'll be fine. Let us know how you make out.

viscofisy · 08-11-2015, 11:33 AM

Ok, thanks kirk, I'll do that

ivansc · 08-11-2015, 11:40 AM

And of course you can also try it with ADT after and see which you prefer.

In my experience it is all down to how good the singer is in terms of consistency of performance.
If you have a good singer who can get close to spot on it can actually start to sound like chorussing. And of course what you rally need is those slight imperfections.

Listen to JJ Cale on "Gipsy Man" and check out just how far OUT some of his double tracking is, but somehow it still seems to work. Especially on the bridge sections.

viscofisy · 08-11-2015, 11:53 AM

Cheers ivan, will give it a listen.

psingman · 09-11-2015, 01:04 PM

Yeah, I found this method out a few cd's ago, where you send the two guitar or vocal tracks to a buss going in to the master, as it blends them better and you can move the buss one around in the mix so it sounds right, using volume and panning etc. I don't do as much eqing though, but for just getting the song done, "git er done", you have to employ some basic shortcuts that work for you, otherwise you wil become a tired studio rat like some of the posters in here, hehe, jk, but everyone reading knows what I mean, psingman

P.S. Quote I am referring to is below!

I always send the two tracks to a buss which then dumps into the master buss. It just helps to keep things organized. Plus when you render, it bounces from the buss, which melds the two tracks into one. Sounds brilliant.

I also like to EQ and compress the two tracks separately. After all, they'll have different peaks, so they'll require slightly different eq and compression.

Also, just jump in and try it. Try all the different panning and levelling choices available to you. You never know what will jump out at you. It's loads of fun![/QUOTE]