Theme Team Progress Report - Page 3

susbemol · 03-11-2011, 08:23 AM

I've been wondering about the new default theme so thank you very much for sharing where it's going!

Apart from looking great visually, seems really functional and easy to understand/use.

karl · 03-11-2011, 09:17 AM

Looking at the new designs again, I think the whole fader/vu area is actually looking a little cramped within that 'boot' - everything is very tightly packed.

I do really like how the mixer menu button has been incorporated onto the master panel - a cut-out 'notch' revealing what I assume to be background and the button (in a shape paralleling the boot). I wonder if a similar idea could be used on the MCPs on the meter/fader area itself - let it go all the way to the left edge of the MCP, increasing the width of the meter area to create more breathing space, without increasing the width of the panels.

Rough mock-up of what I mean below:

Note: last two MCP examples show the mute and solo buttons as connected - I personally think that works better and unifies them more as related functions.

bfsound · 03-11-2011, 09:36 AM

Is this going to be implemented in the beta or a soon to come alpha?

Matthew Presley · 03-11-2011, 12:14 PM

great as always!

Xasman · 03-11-2011, 01:12 PM

A marvellous improvement!

I am definitely in the "pro-ionic volute" (boot)camp for the rec-arm button

.

However, although I realise that it results in a track-width penalty, like some others, I also prefer pan sliders over knobs because it's simply easier to identify pan positions (and especially width, if selected) at a glance.

JMS49 · 03-11-2011, 01:19 PM

Beautiful WT.

vidalsh · 03-11-2011, 02:00 PM

I don´t know if I like it or not...

the record button into track name at tcp, or into meter at mcp is one like disturbing...

the toolbar icons shows so well, but you´ve done the always mistake in your themes..."GREEN/RED"...almost the horrible green push button effect...

daltonic people only see a near yellow/brown color in those buttons...

and for not daltonic, this is one handicap and there is no way to tuning the theme...

If I´ve not said before, remove the green color from your themes and your themes will be in another step away

airon · 03-11-2011, 06:07 PM

@White Tie:

Next alpha ? Two weeks ?

junkfood · 03-11-2011, 06:14 PM

This is looking great! Excellent work.

Ben Zero · 03-11-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pylorca

Hi!

to me is very important to see the decimals:

I agree 100%. Well spotted. We can't forgo that reading all.

Ben Zero · 03-11-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bennisixx

This is amazing work guys. Almost perfect.

2 things though.....

1) Could the fx, routing, etc buttons be as bright as mute and solo? It looks like all the other buttons are part of the background.

2) This one has to do with walter, but if we can have this

why can't we put the fx inserts(like the mcp, which you guys made look real good) instead of parameters?

Had to ask.

+1 on this. I think a lot of this dark grey/black should go. Lighter is always clearer and too much dark leads to too much contrast...

Ben Zero · 03-11-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidalsh

I don´t know if I like it or not...

the record button into track name at tcp, or into meter at mcp is one like disturbing...

the toolbar icons shows so well, but you´ve done the always mistake in your themes..."GREEN/RED"...almost the horrible green push button effect...

daltonic people only see a near yellow/brown color in those buttons...

and for not daltonic, this is one handicap and there is no way to tuning the theme...

If I´ve not said before, remove the green color from your themes and your themes will be in another step away

Without wanting to sound negative, I very much agree with these points. As much as this theme seems an improvement, it's still a way off in my opinion in terms of colours. There's definitely still too much green and too much dark charcoal/grey/black.

I think the default theme for the new version should be opened up to some of the other great theme designers coming up with ideas on here. We could then all put say, the top five themes to a vote. A genuine question that I don't know the answer to - is WT volunteering this themes or his he employed by Cockos for his services?

j79 · 03-11-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

Without wanting to sound negative, I very much agree with these points. As much as this theme seems an improvement, it's still a way off in my opinion in terms of colours. There's definitely still too much green and too much dark charcoal/grey/black.

I think the default theme for the new version should be opened up to some of the other great theme designers coming up with ideas on here. We could then all put say, the top five themes to a vote. A genuine question that I don't know the answer to - is WT volunteering this themes or his he employed by Cockos for his services?

I dont think that will make any difference...for that to work, there has to be a perfect theme floating around somewhere, that the board of master themers can find. There is no such thing im afraid. Voting is not needed, in my oppinion...if five great themes are finished, does it really matter which end up the default? No matter how the default-theme turns out, someone will hate it...a theme everyone is happy with is not possible, we all have to accept that. Easy for me to say since i like it very much, but its true none the less.

Breeder · 03-11-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidalsh

the record button into track name at tcp, or into meter at mcp is one like disturbing...

almost the horrible green push button effect...

I like both of those details

de gustibus non est disputandum!

dub3000 · 03-11-2011, 08:40 PM

great work guys, looks very very good.

one thing i raised in an earlier thread that sadly looks like it didn't make the cut is an FX button in the standard, non rec-armed TCP view. i'm assuming this is a deliberate tradeoff - in your opinion, how tricky would it be for an end-user (i.e. me) to add it to the TCP view in their own copy of the theme file?

everything else there looks pretty damn great.

(edit: just noticed that the FX button is on the 'nearly' minimal TCP track view... i guess that's a decent tradeoff)

chriscomfort · 03-11-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

+1 on this. I think a lot of this dark grey/black should go. Lighter is always clearer and too much dark leads to too much contrast...

I couldn't disagree with you more. The darker colors are the single best change in the default from that sickly pale lightness.

bennisixx · 03-11-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriscomfort

I couldn't disagree with you more. The darker colors are the single best change in the default from that sickly pale lightness.

I agree, just not selectable buttons

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

+1 on this. I think a lot of this dark grey/black should go. Lighter is always clearer and too much dark leads to too much contrast...

Lets not be confused by my true agenda.....

I'm looking for a Walter option to display the fx inserts on the tcp(much to the dismay of some around here) you can't blame me for trying. But I'd Say if anyone could pass a Walter request on to cockos, It'd be WT.

the contrast in the background vs the Buttons would be nice.

I love this new theme, but I think the focus on the record button is ridiculous given the amount of time mixing VS recording(unless you need a million takes to lay a track down)

Anyway I admire the work you guys are doing.

teejb43 · 03-12-2011, 12:49 AM

A lovely, elegant, logical step up from V3 to V4. Love what you've done WT.

dub3000 · 03-12-2011, 01:21 AM

gonna also say - the narrow transport looks awesome.

reaperdeeper · 03-12-2011, 02:09 AM

yeah
this one looks fantastic !!!!

Broman · 03-12-2011, 02:34 AM

Guys, seriously amazing work. I'm really happy with all the thought, effort and talent you put into this, and you should be really proud of what you created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

Interesting... something to think about for sure.

Mercado_Negro · 03-12-2011, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broman

Interesting... something to think about for sure.

Yeah, I find that pretty interesting as well, nice concept, looks good.

squibble94 · 03-12-2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

I think that's true, and my first impressions of the theme are that it's looking really good.

Re: "The Boot" - I'm really liking the asymmetry of this design, but I do think it causes (on the MCP at least) it's own visual problems makes the MCP look a little imbalanced regarding how everything else relates to it - things could do with being 'unified' a bit more IMO.

The column of buttons (mute etc) are looking okay framed as they are by the meters/rec arm (though in some examples the top of the column isn't aligned with the top of the 'boot', and it needs to be I think), but overall I think the meter zone needs to be counter-balanced a bit more with the other elements, particularly when the pan is present at the bottom.

Because of that shape at the bottom of the meter area, things like the pan controls just look a bit random and out of place underneath it - they don't seem to relate to the design in any way and the 'weight' doesn't feel right. The problem I think is that the flat bottom of the boot suggests the bottom of the TCP - my eye doesn't then want to see something underneath it! However, I think by using more curves, and re-using that 'boot' shape again, some counterbalance could be provided.

Forgive me for doing this, but I've mocked up something to try and show what I mean (and feel free to shoot me down if none of it is possible!).

Shown above (before and after!): re-use of the boot shape as a background for pan to provide balance, plus 2 attempts to carry the idea into the narrower panels, with pan backgrounds, though these are less of an issue (though the 2 square side-by-side mute/solo buttons look slightly uncomfortable under that curve, so I've made a suggestion there! Also, their edges are slightly wider than the edges of the meter area - they need to line up I think).

Note: I've also flipped the fader and Vu meters in the first example - I think it works better that way round!

The 'boot' does works really well on the TCP panels though - it acts as a framing device for the TCP buttons, and I think it just works better when seen one above the other in multiple TCPs, top to bottom, than when seen horizontally across as on the MCP.

I'm loving the toolbar buttons though. When I first saw the red/green icon set in Alpha 1, I wasn't sure about them, but these version in this context look really good!

I'm really digging your suggestions. I like the mute and solo button idea. The second one looks very nice. +1 for this dude.

xpander · 03-12-2011, 06:53 AM

Teejb43 summarized perfectly what I also feel about this latest development:

Quote:

Originally Posted by teejb43

A lovely, elegant, logical step up from V3 to V4. Love what you've done WT.

I totally agree.

At this stage there's only one thing I'm wary of myself, the green-red state of the icons. On given examples I have no problems at all in regular lighting conditions. But nevertheless, I'm partially red-green colorblind, more specifically green weak (deuteranomaly). So small differencies in hues can be problematic for me.

I think it's most sensible to develop things to accommodate common senses and conditions(plural and singular puns intended), but if there is a way to also care for most common disabilities, that much better.

Still, Vidalsh example of daltonic people is one of the more rare forms of colorblindness, whereas deuteranomaly is the most common, about 6% of males have this condition. I'm not trying to downplay any individual limitations, but just to remind about the degree of differencies and what might or might not be reasonable within the grand scale of things. As far as I'm concerned, I don't expect the default theme colors being changed in any way to cater for my particular weakness. But I'm surely not complaining about the amount of green either...it's actually rather weak.

--

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

I think the default theme for the new version should be opened up to some of the other great theme designers coming up with ideas on here. We could then all put say, the top five themes to a vote. A genuine question that I don't know the answer to - is WT volunteering this themes or his he employed by Cockos for his services?

Ben Zero, you might have missed White Ties first topic about the new default theme and The Theme Team?
V4 Theme : The Theme Team requests appearance discussion
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69927

Any of the user themes might offer chances for more personal influence down to making your very own version.

For communal theme example, there's Brices OCTAVE.
OCTAVE - Open Community Theme
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=70119

Voting and top lists will not not work in default theme development much at all...not always even in community driven things as Kundalinguist so acutely noted here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=390

musicbynumbers · 03-12-2011, 07:24 AM

please consider a horizontal slider pan version as I can't use pan knobs in reaper with my wacom pen pad and some touchscreens don't like it either

pcmusicpro · 03-12-2011, 07:35 AM

Everything is great except for the green state and general use of green and red in the toolbar icons. They are just bad taste, look cheap and non pro. Besides that people that are color blind, a condition called Daltonisn will have problems using those icons. More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness

djspiritcr · 03-12-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

+why can't we put the fx inserts(like the mcp, which you guys made look real good) instead of parameters?

+1!!!

i really wish it can be possible...

White Tie · 03-12-2011, 08:02 AM

I'm only able to test for deuteranopia and protanopia, and I do so as a matter of routine and design accordingly, as we have done here. However, like making sure your kick drum comes through on a portable radio, its a matter of balance and compromise.

Like all accessibility issues, I think this is best addressed once you have a functional interface to experiment with.

xpander · 03-12-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

I'm only able to test for deuteranopia and protanopia, and I do so as a matter of routine and design accordingly, as we have done here. However, like making sure your kick drum comes through on a portable radio, its a matter of balance and compromise.

Thanks for this particular design detail White Tie. Should've quessed that already, but I'm glad to hear it confirmed. Small things for many, but just goes to show how thruout you are at this task. Agreed on balance and compromise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

Like all accessibility issues, I think this is best addressed once you have a functional interface to experiment with.

Hear, hear. Thanks again WT, and the Theme Team too.

karl · 03-12-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squibble94

I'm really digging your suggestions. I like the mute and solo button idea. The second one looks very nice. +1 for this dude.

Thanks - but I should emphasise that I've spent no time with Walter as yet, and I've a feeling what I'm showing on the mute/solo buttons might not be possible. I'm assuming you can define the size of a button, but in my mock-up the buttons technically overlap into the rec arm button's area - though I guess maybe the 3 part could fit together like a jigsaw! (with bits of the rec. arm/VU background actually being part of the mute/solo buttons).

Anyway, it was just meant as a suggestion to the theme team - not a campaign to get it done my way!

groovemaster · 03-12-2011, 01:26 PM

Hi,
I just want to say, that there are also people, which are a bit older, with not so good eyes....so why there are such low contrasts at some places in the theme?
Or you have a 26' monitor with a 1920x1200 resolution and you are standing 2 meters away from the monitor.....how should one read this?

TabSel · 03-12-2011, 02:02 PM

Yeah, i guess I'm getting old, my eyes hurt when reaping across 3 screens looking for the info I Need...

The themes I tried are all so beautiful, aesthetically suberb, with this wt theme topping everything, plus, I'm a programmmer and used to have as much code on screen as possible and reduce font size as much as possible... But reaping... makes my eyes wet, everything is too small... :-(

vidalsh · 03-12-2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Tie

I'm only able to test for deuteranopia and protanopia, and I do so as a matter of routine and design accordingly, as we have done here. However, like making sure your kick drum comes through on a portable radio, its a matter of balance and compromise.

Like all accessibility issues, I think this is best addressed once you have a functional interface to experiment with.

I don´t think so...

your latest icons are so awesome, but as I said before those colors are unusable and not the better one...

I don´t know how to say this...BUT REMOVE GREEN COLORS IN YOUR THEMES!

sorry if I´m not an awesome fan than say wow, awesome ...

I think you can do this much better...

and yes, I do not like it...

I´m sorry for...but I don´t like

jdutaillis · 03-13-2011, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

I'm a fan of the meter being to the left of the fader, thus making the fader centred. Would have to try using the theme for a while to really decide which I prefer...

Not a very helpful comment I know but maybe something to think about.

maixueguonian · 03-13-2011, 04:13 AM

The contrast is still too low

karl · 03-13-2011, 04:38 AM

The contrast is just right

zappadave · 03-13-2011, 06:15 AM

I still prefer the version 3 theme, and nothing I've seen to date has made me want to change. It's just better.

henge · 03-13-2011, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maixueguonian

The contrast is still too low

Quote:

Originally Posted by karl

The contrast is just right

I believe we have contrasting viewpoints!

karl · 03-13-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henge

I believe we have contrasting viewpoints!

I was hoping someone would jump in with "The contrast is too high".

jedstar2000 · 03-13-2011, 09:31 AM

Looks really awesome.

I like the Boot

Everything looks good from ware I'm sitting I especially like the FX input on the MCP and would love the sends and param section to mirror this.

My main two grumbles are to do with layout.

1. I don't like the fact the track id and name are separated on the mcp this makes it harder to scan .

2. I would like vertical meters in the tcp

3. I'm not sure about the IO in the TCP but this may grow on me..

Looking forward to testing this baby . Great work