Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-21-2012, 02:48 PM   #1
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default Behringer BCF2000 and BCR2000 Turn Buckle

Smack your head hard enough on it and yes you will pass out. Get this, this is what I have to do in order to use my control surfaces. This is assuming Reaper is running and both Control Surfaces are on and configured.

Setup: 32 tracks divided into 4 presets that have a 4 band EQ, volume and pan. This is saved as a template.

Step 1: I have to physically turn each button and fader to activate them, other wise they don't function. Each preset must be done this way. This totals the number of buttons and faders to be turned-on in reaper to 192. Once this is complete I can use my control surface without any problems. If I shut Reaper off I must repeat this process.

This wasn't possible with v4.1 because some presets would no longer function while Reaper was running and would require re-activation by turning them, making it virtually impossible to work in a project that required more than a few BFC2000/BCR2000 presets. This new build v4.2 doesn't do this, once activated all the buttons on both units remain active through all 4 presets, which is a BIG improvement.

Regardless, this is absorbingly retarded. Reaper through it's own process loads something in memory that tells the program, "these control surface assignments are active." when I initially turn the buttons. Why isn't possible to have a save feature for this and save it to a file, so when I reload my project, I simply run it and Reaper reloads and activates to the previous state? Without it, I have turn 192 knobs every-time I reload my project, which by the way, if I'm mixing a project, I can't turn off the computer or Reaper or I will loose all my EQ settings, by the act of turning them out of position the very minute I have re-activate the buttons and faders. I might as well bang my head on turn buckle.

Reaper are you listening?

PACO
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 03:58 PM   #2
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco572 View Post
[...] Reaper are you listening?

PACO
User are you searching? (Suggestion: combine "MIDI" with "BCR-2000" and "OSC" )

Oh, btw, the idea is to a discuss a FR before blindly copy/pasting your comments in the bug tracks.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 06:58 PM   #3
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

solvable with a macro i reckon - as i've have had to do this to 'sync' the bcf2000 on startup in the past:

install sws extension.. you have this already because you are wise?

ensure 'snapshot settings' are set to full mix - its fine as is.

make a macro along the lines of:
(i'm assuming the 4band eq is reaeq's 4 bands setup as the first 4 fx param knobs on each track - adjust the macro if not. basically it adjusts the values of everything, and sets its back immediately.)

-------------------------------------------
sws: save as snapshot 12 (your choice of number)
select all tracks
adjust track fx parameter 1
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 2
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 3
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 4
track: set volume for selected tracks
track: set pan for selected tracks
(may be required ) - wait 1 second (test this)
sws: recall snapshot 12
-------------------------------------------

assign to a button (on your bcf would be ideal) and hopefully that should 'sync' you up.

I'm not sure if you may have to do this the 4 times for each preset - though 4 button presses are better than 192 i guess.

the wait action was required in the past to give things a chance to register and the control surface to notice. may not be needed, or you could use the lowest wait time. try it out.

even if is not exactly what you're after the principle applies:

save as snapshot > move/adjust every thing in question > recall the snapshot > bcf2000 does a little shuffle and you're ready to go.
cheers
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 03-21-2012 at 07:05 PM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 08:45 PM   #4
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
User are you searching? (Suggestion: combine "MIDI" with "BCR-2000" and "OSC" )

Oh, btw, the idea is to a discuss a FR before blindly copy/pasting your comments in the bug tracks.
I tried the OSC that's new in the control surface menu but it appears to only be functional thur network interface. Sorry I,m really new to Reaper but just the same at least I gave you something to complain about to fill you day.

Paco
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2012, 08:46 PM   #5
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
solvable with a macro i reckon - as i've have had to do this to 'sync' the bcf2000 on startup in the past:

install sws extension.. you have this already because you are wise?

ensure 'snapshot settings' are set to full mix - its fine as is.

make a macro along the lines of:
(i'm assuming the 4band eq is reaeq's 4 bands setup as the first 4 fx param knobs on each track - adjust the macro if not. basically it adjusts the values of everything, and sets its back immediately.)

-------------------------------------------
sws: save as snapshot 12 (your choice of number)
select all tracks
adjust track fx parameter 1
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 2
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 3
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 4
track: set volume for selected tracks
track: set pan for selected tracks
(may be required ) - wait 1 second (test this)
sws: recall snapshot 12
-------------------------------------------

assign to a button (on your bcf would be ideal) and hopefully that should 'sync' you up.

I'm not sure if you may have to do this the 4 times for each preset - though 4 button presses are better than 192 i guess.

the wait action was required in the past to give things a chance to register and the control surface to notice. may not be needed, or you could use the lowest wait time. try it out.

even if is not exactly what you're after the principle applies:

save as snapshot > move/adjust every thing in question > recall the snapshot > bcf2000 does a little shuffle and you're ready to go.
cheers
Thanks, I'll look into this.

Paco
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #6
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
solvable with a macro i reckon - as i've have had to do this to 'sync' the bcf2000 on startup in the past:

install sws extension.. you have this already because you are wise?

ensure 'snapshot settings' are set to full mix - its fine as is.

make a macro along the lines of:
(i'm assuming the 4band eq is reaeq's 4 bands setup as the first 4 fx param knobs on each track - adjust the macro if not. basically it adjusts the values of everything, and sets its back immediately.)

-------------------------------------------
sws: save as snapshot 12 (your choice of number)
select all tracks
adjust track fx parameter 1
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 2
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 3
""""""""""""""""""""""""" 4
track: set volume for selected tracks
track: set pan for selected tracks
(may be required ) - wait 1 second (test this)
sws: recall snapshot 12
-------------------------------------------

assign to a button (on your bcf would be ideal) and hopefully that should 'sync' you up.

I'm not sure if you may have to do this the 4 times for each preset - though 4 button presses are better than 192 i guess.

the wait action was required in the past to give things a chance to register and the control surface to notice. may not be needed, or you could use the lowest wait time. try it out.

even if is not exactly what you're after the principle applies:

save as snapshot > move/adjust every thing in question > recall the snapshot > bcf2000 does a little shuffle and you're ready to go.
cheers
You mention the creation of a macro. Is this a text file I create or edit and if so would you be willing to give me an idea of what to do? I tried what you said but I think I'm missing something.
I have the SWS extensions installed and yes I'm using ReaEq's on the BCR2000, 8 rows (tracks 1 thur 8 right to left) of 4 Eq's per track (top to bottom). On the BCF2000 I use the top row of rotary knobs for pan, 8 rows (tracks 1 thur 8 right to left) with the 8 rows of fades controlling volume. I have 4 presets covering 32 tracks total.

Here's what i did. I created a snap shot and saved it. I then using preset 1 I moved all the knobs and faders so they were working. I then saved the snap shot. I then exited the program and then re-started Reaper. I then loaded the saved snap shot, all the knobs and faders returned to the positions I saved. However the same thing is required, I still had to move the fader/knobs before they would function. I must be doing something wrong?

As a side note: I removed my feature request as not to not ruffle any more feathers.

Thank you for your help by the way.

PACO

Last edited by Paco572; 03-22-2012 at 11:30 AM.
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 12:56 PM   #7
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

EDIT:
from your description, the 'not working' after applying the snapshot could mean this macro may not work, though it should really as it includes 'tweaking everything'. "returned to the positions i saved..' 'had to move them before they would function'.. " seems odd. anyway - the macro:

not sure ah, no sorry i presumed you'd knocked up a macro before, no prob - although it may be quicker to do an example and upload which would explain but i'm on a chromebook at the mo (cue curious 'why?' type thoughts - l like it though)- will try to describe:

what i wrote was basically a list of the 'actions' that constitute the 'macro', and the actions are in the correct order. you make the macro in reapers actions window.

goto reapers actions window - hit '?' key to get there.

hit 'new' button

give macro a name.

in the filter dialog on left type in e.g 'sws snapshot save' and all matching actions will show in the list, the filter is v handy to find the actions.


find the action that matches the first line of my previous post. click and drag it over to the right hand side, thats step one of your 'macro'.

search in the filter for next action.. adjust fx parameter 1 (midi) and drag that over.

do the same for the other actions listed till it reads as in previous post. you can click-drag them to change order, ensure same as described.

when done hit save, and then you find the new macro you just made (type name in filter) in the actions list -
select, hit 'add' and assign to a key or button on your bcf.

when you load up project apply the macro and your faders and stuff should sync to the on screen values, no twiddling required. i hope!
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 03-22-2012 at 01:20 PM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #8
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

I created the macro. I called it PacoCS and set up a button on the BCR for it. This is how it's listed in my macro.

sws: save as snapshot 12
track: select all tracks
adjust track fx parameter 1
adjust track fx parameter 2
adjust track fx parameter 3
adjust track fx parameter 4
track: set volume for selected tracks
track: set pan for selected tracks
Action: wait 1 second before next action
sws: recall snapshot 12

When I hit the button on the BCR2000 it indeed launches the macro because all the tracks get highlighted and it shows up in the snapshot menu as mix 12 and I can see all the faders go up and down.

I select a single track now and see if it's working but no luck. I still have to move it to make it work. It's the same thing with all the other tracks. I tried all the Action: wait times as well including not using it.
I'm still looking at the big 192...LOL. What am I dodoing wrong??

PACO
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2012, 09:52 PM   #9
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

Boo, not a usual case here....
For robustness insert a ' unselect all tracks' as first thing in macro btw.

When applying macro do faders /lights move on bcf/bcr

Only other thing is try the action: reset all midi devices which may initialise the unit for u.

Seems odd u have to move a fader first before anything works. If thats how i read ur prob. Iv no unit to check but try the reset thing in combo with macro.

After that? Dunno, panic...
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 01:08 AM   #10
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

I do have a question for you Benk. Are you using two midi cables in your set up when using 2 BCR's?
I'm running midi out from my BCF2000 to the midi in on my BCR2000 which is then hooked up via USB to my computer. With this configuration I'm only using a single Midi cable. Once all 192 knobs are turned they remain active with this configuration. I'm using USB 4 mode on the BCR which is connected to the computer and then I run midi out from the BCF set to s3 to the midi in on the BCR. This is the only configuration I was able to get working, however, it shows in the manual for BCR a dotted line for a second cable that indicates parameter feedback under this configuation, which is also the recommended way to use 2 bcr's. Do you think this might be the problem? I'm going to get another cable and give it whack. Please let me know what you think.

Paco
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 01:02 PM   #11
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Added the second midi cable as per diagram in the BCF manual, no difference.

PACO
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 01:15 PM   #12
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco572 View Post
I tried the OSC that's new in the control surface menu but it appears to only be functional thur network interface. Sorry I,m really new to Reaper but just the same at least I gave you something to complain about to fill you day.
You can just use that locally by sending to localhost (127.0.0.1). It's much faster than a MIDI cable anyway. I have my BCR-2000 connected normally via USB, and run Pd to act as go-between. Done with the basics, moving on to using the infinite flexibility. Haven't felt the need to smack my head a single time to get my BCR-2000 control surface working. It's an absolute joy to use, and makes Mackie's proprietary protocol look like a bad joke imho. I wouldn't recommend investing any intellectual or financial resources in it for use with REAPER since we have OSC. YMMV, of course, and I hope you get it working to your satisfaction either way. Good luck.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #13
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

I did manage to get things working today with a few exceptions. I'm glad you don't have any issues but for me, I've made 4 albums in the last 4 years and just finished my 5th album and I'm looking forward to mastering it. I really wanted to use a control surface this time round but things just are not working like they should. For example, I did manage to get the ReaEq's to work without having to move them, I just removed the check mark from "soft open" in the learn menu. Ever single one of them 4 per track over 32 tracks. I thought this is it!!, I finally got it working the way I want. But what about the faders? Unfortunately, the faders no matter what I do require movement in order to be seen by Reaper.

The process of mastering a song for me at least, can't be done in a day and I do have to shut things down at night, which means I have to move the faders the next day. After spending the entire day mixing, I can't afford the time to re-do the volume settings at the expense of having reaper reacquire the fader movements. Not withstanding the snapshot, which would save all my settings from the previous day, the minute I move the fades I'm pooched unless I write down on paper what the volume levels were at the end of each day for each track and I'm simply not going to do that. At this point I solved the EQ problem, pan is not issue but the faders are my breaking point.

I'd like to thank all of you for your help.


PACO
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 05:59 PM   #14
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

q: did you try the 'reset all midi devices' action btw?

it should act the same as going to prefs - control surfaces - (select bcf2000) hit edit and then 'apply'. (this normally 'resets' control surfaces, and that may work and be less hassle than knob twiddling.)

sorry its not working out - my bcf is not in use (in bits), plus i only ever used it in usb mode, so its tricky to test things to check. i only used one also, coerce who doesn't seem to be about these days, had two bcfs i think.

it does seem with no midi going back to your bcf it won't respond to feedback. ensuring different ID's and using the proper behry midi drivers etc does help. but for setting up 2 i'm just guessing.


IMO i'd keep it simple and easier to diagnose by connecting each via usb, each unit set with different ID.

best o luck.
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 03-23-2012 at 06:17 PM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2012, 07:49 AM   #15
Paco572
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Great news guys. I installed the BCR/BCF USB drivers for Win7 earlier, not that this made any difference, well it did but I'll explain later. I was running the two units daisy chained according to the manual, that being the BCR using USB4 mode then midi connected to the BCF using s3 mode and hence all of my posts and trouble I was having. Having succeeded in getting the BCR to function through the removal of the soft opening check mark, that left the BCF and it's problem of having to move the faders first before detection. The turn buckle as I fondly put it.

I scraped the daisy chain method. Ran both units using USB1 mode using their own USB cables and presto. Both now function without the annoying twiddling. The difference the installed Win7 64 bit USB drivers did for me was, before I installed them, I did run this configuration before but in the MIDI device section in preferences both units showed up as BCR2000 with no BCF2000 in the list, so I gave up on this method and ran with the daisy chain method. With the Win7 USB drivers installed both are now listed properly, BCR2000 and BCF2000 respectively. Both are configured proper Enabled+Control in the MIDI preferences and now both units work without the turn buckle twiddle. I don't even have to run a macro at all. I'm thrilled I got through this.

I got the idea to run them separate on there own USB ports from your last post and that was the ticket.

As side note: I also made some changes to my feature request, I sort of withdrew it and added a little blame to myself which was deserving. I hope others out there will find this information and it too might help them get there BCR/BCF running without too much turn buckle trouble.

Thank you all again for your help.

PACO

Last edited by Paco572; 03-24-2012 at 08:13 AM.
Paco572 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2012, 11:44 PM   #16
LX84
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paco572 View Post
I got the idea to run them separate on there own USB ports from your last post and that was the ticket.
PACO
hey paco!

can you explain a little further how you setup your both controllers now in reaper?
do you use the Mackie-Emulation on the BCF?
whatabout the BCR2000? are you usign it for the EQ-settings?
if so, how do you do that?
it woudl be awesome if you write something like a "HowTo" for everybody!

I connected my two devices also via USB, using the behringer-USB drivers. both devices are visible in Reaper now. setting up the BCF2000 as a mackie controller was pretty easy and works straight away how i like it. but i don't really have a clue how to setup the BCR2000 to work as an EQ-controller. the best would be kind of like the BCF - 8 tracks per preset, adjusting low, mids and trebles for each track. and automatically switching to the next preset when e.g. track 9 is selected.
another option would be, that the all the knobs are for one single track, which depends on which track is selected (e.g. by the track selection of the BCF2000). so it can controll the full EQ-settings for a 3 or 4 band EQ, additionally maybe something like a compressor and/or reverb.
LX84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.