Old 10-30-2014, 07:37 PM   #1
jalan
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Default Why dials instead of sliders?

I kind get it for the pan control -- as a left vs right control, I can see how it might make sense there -- but in general, dials seem like a holdout from the hardware era that's completely awkward with DAWs.

I hate to complain, especially since I'm just trying to get back into recording after too long of a break, but I'm looking through all these killer themes -- especially the stuff from albertxxxx -- and there are so many with a dial volume control in the TCP. Just wondering if anyone could explain why so many themes use them and if there's an advantage I'm missing...
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:46 PM   #2
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Yeah volume I can't stand as a knob. But I do like just about everything else as knobs, especially Wet/Dry mix knobs (like in EpicVerb). There are places where I'd actually prefer knobs, such as in a lot of the JS plugins, and also buttons, again such as in a lot of the JS plugins. Using a slider for an on/off is just hilarious.
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Old 10-30-2014, 08:56 PM   #3
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knobs take up less space
tend to make more sense for things that go from -100 to +100 or 0 to 100
Can be different sizes to signify priority.
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Old 10-31-2014, 02:23 AM   #4
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There is no knob.

Imagine a square hitbox that responds to expanded up/down mouse movement (and indeed left/right) while also displaying its current value as a proportion of its extents. Imagine complete functionality across 100% of that hitbox. Imagine universal pan-global affordance by leveraging ubiquitous and unambiguous meat-space learning. Finally, imagine if that hitbox could be really quite small indeed.

Its a UI miracle.
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Old 10-31-2014, 02:43 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
knobs take up less space
tend to make more sense for things that go from -100 to +100 or 0 to 100
Can be different sizes to signify priority.
This.

I dislike using JS just because they're sliders by default. Ditto Cockos FX too (even though they sound great).
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:34 AM   #6
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Three words: draggable input fields.
(short version of WTs description)

e
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Old 10-31-2014, 06:09 AM   #7
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Thanks for the replies. I figured space was a (if not 'the') key issue. I may have just had too much experience with poorly or not universally-designed knobs. I've had some that 'turned' by dragging your mouse up and down, others that are left to right and still others seem to do both, which actually makes it more confusing. Have not had that issue with sliders (obviously); hence, they're more intuitive, at least for me. Just my two cents. I appreciate input from the folks who actually design these things
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:16 AM   #8
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Related discussion from 2011:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=93411

I'd still like to be able to type in pan values.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:55 AM   #9
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I prefer knobs that are turned by a drag up and down, not left to right and DEFINITELY NOT circular.

The other thing I hate is when you click (and hold) the knob to begin adjustment and the value changes to where you clicked. That's a big fail
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Related discussion from 2011:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=93411

I'd still like to be able to type in pan values.
You can type pan values since November 14 2012, Version 4.30

"Pan: track pan value can be manually entered in track controls dialog"
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I prefer knobs that are turned by a drag up and down, not left to right and DEFINITELY NOT circular.

The other thing I hate is when you click (and hold) the knob to begin adjustment and the value changes to where you clicked. That's a big fail
Ah, yes. I've experienced circular knobs too. This is the problem in a nutshell. I'm sure I'd like them better if there was consistency in how they operated.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
"Pan: track pan value can be manually entered in track controls dialog"
I'm not sure where that is....

What I want to be able to do is click next to the pan dial, where the value is given, and type in a new one. I tried. I can't.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:15 PM   #13
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It appears that some of the comments expressed in this thread do not apply to knob_stacks.
Knob_stacks can look like lateral or vertical faders as well as circular knobs.
Just so ya'all know they work a little differently...

On the preference side they're like...

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
I think I'll use some knobs!
Big fat juicy ones,
Eensie weensy squeensy ones,
See how they wiggle and squirm!

Down goes the first one, down goes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm!
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm!

I bite off the heads, and suck out the juice,
And throw the skins away!
Nobody knows how fat I grow,
On knobs three times a day!

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
I think I'll go make some knobs!
Big fat juicy ones,
Eensie weensy squeensy ones,
See how they wiggle and squirm!
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:45 PM   #14
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Knobs.

I'd like a knob/dragable-value-field view in ReaEQ as an alternative to sliders. It would require a symbol drop-down menu for the band type as well. (And make the band on/off switch automatable while you're at it.)

Much, much more convenient for me. Less clickery-do. Maybe even some colour coding. Hell, you can design this stuff with close to no extra gfx resources.
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Old 10-31-2014, 06:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
Three words: draggable input fields.
(short version of WTs description)

e
This is what I always wanted.
In an era of building flying saucers, why would we make them look like car with wheels if not for nostalgia?
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:03 PM   #16
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Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
I'm not sure where that is....

What I want to be able to do is click next to the pan dial, where the value is given, and type in a new one. I tried. I can't.
left-click the io button or right-click the fader.

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Old 11-01-2014, 10:35 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
left-click the io button or right-click the fader.
Oh, that track controls dialog....

Yes, it's easy enough.... but typing to the right of the dial would be more intuitive. I would think this would be easy to implement.
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Imagine universal pan-global affordance by leveraging ubiquitous and unambiguous meat-space learning.
Wouldn't this leave vegetarians out standing in their field?

A miracle, indeed.
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Old 11-01-2014, 11:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex View Post
Oh, that track controls dialog....

Yes, it's easy enough.... but typing to the right of the dial would be more intuitive. I would think this would be easy to implement.
just adding it to the pan options should be simple enough and certainly more intuitive for the user.
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
left-click the io button or right-click the fader.

That thing, imo, mmv as usual, is a pretty big waste of space where replacing the faders with knobs wouldn't help much. Among the small collections of things I really don't like about Reaper design wise, that's pretty close to the top of the list.

I look at how wide those dropdowns are are often wonder if I'd ever name any track that would need that much space... and of course (off topic obviously, sorry) not being able to redirect sends always drives me nuts.
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Old 11-01-2014, 01:06 PM   #22
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I agree but it doesn't bother me there. You never have more than one of these windows up at once so it doesn't need to be smaller.
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Old 11-01-2014, 01:34 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I agree but it doesn't bother me there. You never have more than one of these windows up at once so it doesn't need to be smaller.
True. I mostly object to the entire design of that thing really, although I don't actually have a better one to offer so... kinda moot.
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Old 11-01-2014, 10:47 PM   #24
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imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.

thanks for imagining that for a second.
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious View Post
imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.

thanks for imagining that for a second.
I don't understand why it still doesn't exist today.
It would be ideal for a space-saving and intuitive interface.
I'd love a TCP and mixer like that.
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious View Post
imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.

thanks for imagining that for a second.
I've seen that on synths which works well except that it makes for a boring or confusing interface.
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:13 PM   #27
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Default Does anyone have trouble with the dials...

I'm having trouble with the knobs being very "jerky" when I adjust them. I try to adjust a pan to the left and it will go immediately 100% right. And then I can't adjust it off 100% in the direction opposite where I want to pan. If I press ctrl to slow things down, it often has no effect at all. I usually have to double click the knob to re-center the pan and try again. It makes the interface almost unusable.

Edit:

Came into work this morning and tried the pan control on a track on my work computer. Works perfectly. Work computer is a Windows 7 laptop, home machine is Windows 8.1 (and yes I dislike Windows 8 immensly). Perhaps an incompatibility with Windows 8?

Last edited by Minous; 11-03-2014 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Adding more information...
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:27 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
I made a synth in Synthmaker once with controls like that. In this case I had a very basic black and white scheme so the knobs went from black (0) to white (100).

Worked ok on a fairly abstract synth like this where the controls only need to give approximate feedback of their current value but not accurate enough for tcp controls I'd wager.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:38 AM   #29
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I like to tweak some knobs to turn up the volume.
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Old 11-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
I've seen that on synths which works well except that it makes for a boring or confusing interface.
That's just because it hasn't been well imagined yet.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:33 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
That's just because it hasn't been well imagined yet.
Indeed it's a tricky thing. That and everyone is obsessed with interfaces that look like hardware.

Take two identical synths. Give one an interface with just numbers, the other a photo-realistic layout of knobs, glowing lights and wood panels. You can bet the latter will sound better.
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:07 PM   #32
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If they are just number you are maybe forced to use your ears more, resulting in better sound... I guess that's just a theory, right?
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:19 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm View Post
If they are just number you are maybe forced to use your ears more, resulting in better sound... I guess that's just a theory, right?
Numbers are an indicator as much as a slider position. And a more accurate reference than a graphic that is a few pixels up or down.
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Old 11-13-2014, 08:10 AM   #34
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That really depends. If all the number are 0-100% then you are correct, otherwise you might not know what the limits of the control are... they could be 0.0-1.0 or 0.0-254.63 or 63-7243576
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Old 11-13-2014, 12:41 PM   #35
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Sinevibes has some interesting GUIs. Lots of sliders and dots, no knobs

http://www.sinevib.es/multitude/
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Old 12-12-2014, 06:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
ReaAvatar - Latest word is that Justin's almost done with his latest creation - an "auto-avatar."

Forum members' avatars will soon be replaced with a tinted area indicating their brightness.

Wuh-oh.
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