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10-30-2014, 07:37 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 618
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Why dials instead of sliders?
I kind get it for the pan control -- as a left vs right control, I can see how it might make sense there -- but in general, dials seem like a holdout from the hardware era that's completely awkward with DAWs.
I hate to complain, especially since I'm just trying to get back into recording after too long of a break, but I'm looking through all these killer themes -- especially the stuff from albertxxxx -- and there are so many with a dial volume control in the TCP. Just wondering if anyone could explain why so many themes use them and if there's an advantage I'm missing...
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10-30-2014, 08:46 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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Yeah volume I can't stand as a knob. But I do like just about everything else as knobs, especially Wet/Dry mix knobs (like in EpicVerb). There are places where I'd actually prefer knobs, such as in a lot of the JS plugins, and also buttons, again such as in a lot of the JS plugins. Using a slider for an on/off is just hilarious.
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10-30-2014, 08:56 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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knobs take up less space
tend to make more sense for things that go from -100 to +100 or 0 to 100
Can be different sizes to signify priority.
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10-31-2014, 02:23 AM
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#4
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Pixel Pusher
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,950
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There is no knob.
Imagine a square hitbox that responds to expanded up/down mouse movement (and indeed left/right) while also displaying its current value as a proportion of its extents. Imagine complete functionality across 100% of that hitbox. Imagine universal pan-global affordance by leveraging ubiquitous and unambiguous meat-space learning. Finally, imagine if that hitbox could be really quite small indeed.
Its a UI miracle.
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10-31-2014, 02:43 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
knobs take up less space
tend to make more sense for things that go from -100 to +100 or 0 to 100
Can be different sizes to signify priority.
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This.
I dislike using JS just because they're sliders by default. Ditto Cockos FX too (even though they sound great).
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10-31-2014, 03:34 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posts: 3,801
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Three words: draggable input fields.
(short version of WTs description)
e
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10-31-2014, 06:09 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 618
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Thanks for the replies. I figured space was a (if not 'the') key issue. I may have just had too much experience with poorly or not universally-designed knobs. I've had some that 'turned' by dragging your mouse up and down, others that are left to right and still others seem to do both, which actually makes it more confusing. Have not had that issue with sliders (obviously); hence, they're more intuitive, at least for me. Just my two cents. I appreciate input from the folks who actually design these things
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10-31-2014, 11:55 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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I prefer knobs that are turned by a drag up and down, not left to right and DEFINITELY NOT circular.
The other thing I hate is when you click (and hold) the knob to begin adjustment and the value changes to where you clicked. That's a big fail
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10-31-2014, 11:58 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
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You can type pan values since November 14 2012, Version 4.30
"Pan: track pan value can be manually entered in track controls dialog"
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10-31-2014, 01:25 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
I prefer knobs that are turned by a drag up and down, not left to right and DEFINITELY NOT circular.
The other thing I hate is when you click (and hold) the knob to begin adjustment and the value changes to where you clicked. That's a big fail
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Ah, yes. I've experienced circular knobs too. This is the problem in a nutshell. I'm sure I'd like them better if there was consistency in how they operated.
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10-31-2014, 03:06 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
"Pan: track pan value can be manually entered in track controls dialog"
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I'm not sure where that is....
What I want to be able to do is click next to the pan dial, where the value is given, and type in a new one. I tried. I can't.
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10-31-2014, 03:15 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,034
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It appears that some of the comments expressed in this thread do not apply to knob_stacks.
Knob_stacks can look like lateral or vertical faders as well as circular knobs.
Just so ya'all know they work a little differently...
On the preference side they're like...
Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
I think I'll use some knobs!
Big fat juicy ones,
Eensie weensy squeensy ones,
See how they wiggle and squirm!
Down goes the first one, down goes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm!
Up comes the first one, up comes the second one,
Oh how they wiggle and squirm!
I bite off the heads, and suck out the juice,
And throw the skins away!
Nobody knows how fat I grow,
On knobs three times a day!
Nobody likes me, everybody hates me,
I think I'll go make some knobs!
Big fat juicy ones,
Eensie weensy squeensy ones,
See how they wiggle and squirm!
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10-31-2014, 04:45 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Knobs.
I'd like a knob/dragable-value-field view in ReaEQ as an alternative to sliders. It would require a symbol drop-down menu for the band type as well. (And make the band on/off switch automatable while you're at it.)
Much, much more convenient for me. Less clickery-do. Maybe even some colour coding. Hell, you can design this stuff with close to no extra gfx resources.
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10-31-2014, 06:44 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM
Three words: draggable input fields.
(short version of WTs description)
e
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This is what I always wanted.
In an era of building flying saucers, why would we make them look like car with wheels if not for nostalgia?
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10-31-2014, 07:03 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
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11-01-2014, 10:11 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
I'm not sure where that is....
What I want to be able to do is click next to the pan dial, where the value is given, and type in a new one. I tried. I can't.
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left-click the io button or right-click the fader.
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11-01-2014, 10:35 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
left-click the io button or right-click the fader.
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Oh, that track controls dialog....
Yes, it's easy enough.... but typing to the right of the dial would be more intuitive. I would think this would be easy to implement.
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11-01-2014, 10:47 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Great Lakes, N. A.
Posts: 1,872
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Quote:
Imagine universal pan-global affordance by leveraging ubiquitous and unambiguous meat-space learning.
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Wouldn't this leave vegetarians out standing in their field?
A miracle, indeed.
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11-01-2014, 11:01 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fex
Oh, that track controls dialog....
Yes, it's easy enough.... but typing to the right of the dial would be more intuitive. I would think this would be easy to implement.
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just adding it to the pan options should be simple enough and certainly more intuitive for the user.
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11-01-2014, 12:46 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
left-click the io button or right-click the fader.
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That thing, imo, mmv as usual, is a pretty big waste of space where replacing the faders with knobs wouldn't help much. Among the small collections of things I really don't like about Reaper design wise, that's pretty close to the top of the list.
I look at how wide those dropdowns are are often wonder if I'd ever name any track that would need that much space... and of course (off topic obviously, sorry) not being able to redirect sends always drives me nuts.
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11-01-2014, 01:06 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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I agree but it doesn't bother me there. You never have more than one of these windows up at once so it doesn't need to be smaller.
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11-01-2014, 01:34 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
I agree but it doesn't bother me there. You never have more than one of these windows up at once so it doesn't need to be smaller.
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True. I mostly object to the entire design of that thing really, although I don't actually have a better one to offer so... kinda moot.
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11-01-2014, 10:47 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,890
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imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.
thanks for imagining that for a second.
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11-02-2014, 11:48 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious
imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.
thanks for imagining that for a second.
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I don't understand why it still doesn't exist today.
It would be ideal for a space-saving and intuitive interface.
I'd love a TCP and mixer like that.
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11-02-2014, 11:51 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious
imagine if you could either type in a value into a box, or just click and drag the value to change it.
thanks for imagining that for a second.
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I've seen that on synths which works well except that it makes for a boring or confusing interface.
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11-02-2014, 08:13 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3
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Does anyone have trouble with the dials...
I'm having trouble with the knobs being very "jerky" when I adjust them. I try to adjust a pan to the left and it will go immediately 100% right. And then I can't adjust it off 100% in the direction opposite where I want to pan. If I press ctrl to slow things down, it often has no effect at all. I usually have to double click the knob to re-center the pan and try again. It makes the interface almost unusable.
Edit:
Came into work this morning and tried the pan control on a track on my work computer. Works perfectly. Work computer is a Windows 7 laptop, home machine is Windows 8.1 (and yes I dislike Windows 8 immensly). Perhaps an incompatibility with Windows 8?
Last edited by Minous; 11-03-2014 at 06:38 AM.
Reason: Adding more information...
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11-03-2014, 07:27 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk
Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
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I made a synth in Synthmaker once with controls like that. In this case I had a very basic black and white scheme so the knobs went from black (0) to white (100).
Worked ok on a fairly abstract synth like this where the controls only need to give approximate feedback of their current value but not accurate enough for tcp controls I'd wager.
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11-03-2014, 08:38 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,331
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I like to tweak some knobs to turn up the volume.
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11-07-2014, 02:08 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
I've seen that on synths which works well except that it makes for a boring or confusing interface.
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That's just because it hasn't been well imagined yet.
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11-07-2014, 04:33 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk
That's just because it hasn't been well imagined yet.
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Indeed it's a tricky thing. That and everyone is obsessed with interfaces that look like hardware.
Take two identical synths. Give one an interface with just numbers, the other a photo-realistic layout of knobs, glowing lights and wood panels. You can bet the latter will sound better.
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11-10-2014, 03:07 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,331
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If they are just number you are maybe forced to use your ears more, resulting in better sound... I guess that's just a theory, right?
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11-12-2014, 03:19 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm
If they are just number you are maybe forced to use your ears more, resulting in better sound... I guess that's just a theory, right?
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Numbers are an indicator as much as a slider position. And a more accurate reference than a graphic that is a few pixels up or down.
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11-13-2014, 08:10 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,331
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That really depends. If all the number are 0-100% then you are correct, otherwise you might not know what the limits of the control are... they could be 0.0-1.0 or 0.0-254.63 or 63-7243576
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11-13-2014, 12:41 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,571
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Sinevibes has some interesting GUIs. Lots of sliders and dots, no knobs
http://www.sinevib.es/multitude/
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12-12-2014, 06:29 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Outstanding in left field.
Posts: 33
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ReaAvatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk
Why not, instead of a knob indicating a value according to its rotation, a tinted area indicating a value according to its brightness?
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ReaAvatar - Latest word is that Justin's almost done with his latest creation - an "auto-avatar."
Forum members' avatars will soon be replaced with a tinted area indicating their brightness.
Wuh-oh.
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