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Old 10-30-2014, 07:42 AM   #1
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Default What's the BEST Way To Set Up Kontakt 5 for Performance in Reaper?

What's the BEST Way To Set Up Kontakt 5 for Performance in Reaper?

I have a dual Xeon 12 core daw with 32 gigs of ram. I've noticed when I have 2 instances of Kontakt running it (one with Mixosaurous drums and another with SonicCouture EP 76) my CPU seems to get hit hard where even if I set my latency to 1024 I still get the crunch!

I set it for 12 cores but perhaps this setting isn't the best.

I am using Reaper 64 bit. My OS is Win 7 64.

Any tips? Perhaps I should run Kontakt 32 outs and load Mixosaurus, the EP76, and other samples in 1 Kontakt.

Any tips?

Thanks!

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Old 10-30-2014, 09:00 AM   #2
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Wow, that is strange. Compared to your PC I have a 3 year old AMD FX-6100 6 core with 8 Gb RAM and only the on-board soundcard with ASIO4ALL, so a rather minor configuration.
So I did a test: I had three tracks of Kontakt with two piano's in the first Kontakt, the same two pianos in the second Kontakt and the Scarbee Rickenbacher bass in the third Kontakt. So three Kontakt instances with a total of 5 heavy sample libraries. The only problem I get is in the amount of RAM, but my CPU hits only 6% at 1024 latency. I don't have Mixosaurous so the only difference could be that that is a heavy CPU consumer?
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:40 AM   #3
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Wow, that is strange. Compared to your PC I have a 3 year old AMD FX-6100 6 core with 8 Gb RAM and only the on-board soundcard with ASIO4ALL, so a rather minor configuration.
So I did a test: I had three tracks of Kontakt with two piano's in the first Kontakt, the same two pianos in the second Kontakt and the Scarbee Rickenbacher bass in the third Kontakt. So three Kontakt instances with a total of 5 heavy sample libraries. The only problem I get is in the amount of RAM, but my CPU hits only 6% at 1024 latency. I don't have Mixosaurous so the only difference could be that that is a heavy CPU consumer?
My CPU is like 5% but from what I understand is when using VSTi's and daws, they primarily use only 1 core and some plugs will MAX out 1 core while the other cores remain idle.

So... it's not that my computer is powerful, it's just that Kontakt might be configured to where it's clipping on that 1 core.

Also... I do have like 5 synths going and 3 or 4 effects, but I have had like 15 Synths (Absynth, Reaktor, etc.) all at once with no problems.

Plus my ram is running around 7 gigs and I have 32 so I know that's not it.
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:56 AM   #4
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In Kontakt Options/Engine you can determine how many cores will be used. I have all 6.
Maybe that helps?
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:02 AM   #5
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In Kontakt Options/Engine you can determine how many cores will be used. I have all 6.
Maybe that helps?
I have mine set to 12 (all of them) but that may not be best.

I found this from the Native Instruments knowledge base thread:

Quote:
"How many cores should you select here in order to get the best performance from KONTAKT? The answer depends on your sequencer, the project you are working on, your computer system, and so on.

We cannot offer an exact answer that will give best performance for all users in all situations, but as a starting point, you can begin by turning multiprocessor support on for all available cores on your computer, in other words select the maximum value available.

If you are running several instances of KONTAKT in your host project, you will probably acquire a better performance if you reduce the number of multiprocessor cores slightly. Depending on how many instances of KONTAKT you are running, you may achieve a better performance by turning the multiprocessor support off and allowing your host sequencer to manage the multiprocessing instead.

This is also dependent on which host sequencer you are running, they all manage multiprocessor support in a different way. Don't be confused if the CPU or system usage monitor of your sequencer does not reflect the multiprocessing of KONTAKT - it is not transparent to the sequencer."
Here's the link!

http://www.native-instruments.com/en...-of-kontakt-5/
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:17 AM   #6
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Wow, never knew that. Thanks! So it comes down on getting to know how Reaper handles cores with Kontakt. This is definitely a question for the real Reaper gurus here!
But you could start according to NI's advice and lower the number of cores and checking the CPU usage. Maybe that already can help!
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Old 10-30-2014, 10:32 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Paul99 View Post
Wow, never knew that. Thanks! So it comes down on getting to know how Reaper handles cores with Kontakt. This is definitely a question for the real Reaper gurus here!
But you could start according to NI's advice and lower the number of cores and checking the CPU usage. Maybe that already can help!
Ive been experimenting around. So far when I have set it to 6 cores vs. 12 cores it's worse not better. It also might be my VST insturment that's causing such a drain on the system. I also have 2 Kontakts open plus the follwing.

1 Absynth
1 Trilian
2 Stylus RMX
2 Timeless delays from FabFilter
1 Skanner synth
1 Spark Synth

Plus on each track I have Slates VCC and Britson.


On Trilian I have:
CLA Bass Stereo by Chris Lord-Alge

On the guitar track I have:
Amplitube 3 on the guitar track


On my Master Buss I have

FabFilter Saturn
WAVES Maserati GRP
WAVES J37
VCC
FabFilter Pro L Dither

So other stuff happening.

I DO notice when I hold the pedal down and slide my hands up the keys with the SonicCouture EP76 is when I hear the "Crunch" happening. I still need to delete everything and start from scratch but before I do, I'll try replacing the EP76 with the Scarbee MK I and such.

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Old 10-30-2014, 10:54 AM   #8
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Is the crunch on several notes or just one note in SonicCouture EP76? I notices that a lot of libraries have sometime one bad sample or even some bad samples. When you play that key, the sound is quite different from the other keys played.
To isolate the problem further, you could bypass all the effects, also the Master effects. Does it still crunch, then it must be in the SonicCouture EP76 somewhere.
Or even better and faster: start a new project with only SonicCouture EP76 and play the same higher regions. Does it crunch? It yes, you have the culprit. If not, add all the effects you had on the SonicCouture EP76 track and the effects on the master track.
BTW: do not forget to turn of the local effects from SonicCouture EP76. They might also add to the possible crunch.
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Old 10-30-2014, 11:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99 View Post
Is the crunch on several notes or just one note in SonicCouture EP76? I notices that a lot of libraries have sometime one bad sample or even some bad samples. When you play that key, the sound is quite different from the other keys played.
To isolate the problem further, you could bypass all the effects, also the Master effects. Does it still crunch, then it must be in the SonicCouture EP76 somewhere.
Or even better and faster: start a new project with only SonicCouture EP76 and play the same higher regions. Does it crunch? It yes, you have the culprit. If not, add all the effects you had on the SonicCouture EP76 track and the effects on the master track.
BTW: do not forget to turn of the local effects from SonicCouture EP76. They might also add to the possible crunch.
The EP76 sounds find just playing (left hand chords, right hand leads etc.,) but when I hold the pedal down and run my hand up the keys to get do a gliss THAT'S when it happens!

I'm gunna try shutting off all the local effects on the EP76 as well as other stuff.

One thing I notice is the "purge" light kicking on in Kontakt and notes not sounding when I'm playing around. Can't I set it to load 100% into my ram? I have 32 gigs and only using like 6.49 gigs so... why not?

I also attached a pic of my CPU spiking in Windows Task Manager.

You can see the 1 core getting slammed while the others are just laying back having a good old time!

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File Type: jpg CPU Overload using Kontakt 5.jpg (54.6 KB, 349 views)
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Old 10-30-2014, 12:57 PM   #10
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Well... I shut off all the local effects (that wasn't it) so I Googled about how to load all the samples (no buffering) into Kontakt and found out how you can turn off DFD (Direct from Disk) either per instrument and/or globally.

Here's a link about it.

How to Use and Optimize Kontakt DFD

http://www.kontakttutorials.com/kont...e-kontakt-dfd/

So I did this and now the whole instrument seems to be loaded which comes to 1.71 gigs.

However I still get CPU overload... even when playing along with the track. When "playing the part" vs. holding down the sus pedal and sliding up I don't get much of a CPU clip sound (just pops here and there) but still get the major crunches when sliding up and down with the sustain pedal down (hmmmm.)

Now I'll try Scarbee and see if it's the same (brb)

Ok! So I loaded Scarbee with the same Kontakt settings (allowing all samples to load etc.,) and the size is WAY smaller than EP76 which is 1.71 gigs. Scarbee is like 234.20 m and DOES NOT cause CPU overload when holding the pedal down and sliding up and down the key s so THAT's good news!

So it seems that the EP76 is just a whole lot for the CPU to handle.

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Old 10-30-2014, 01:22 PM   #11
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The EP76 sounds find just playing (left hand chords, right hand leads etc.,) but when I hold the pedal down and run my hand up the keys to get do a gliss THAT'S when it happens!
well, if you do a glissando with the pedal down, do you know how many voices are used for that? can be easily more than 200. so I would guess that is a max voice problem at that point. and not a problem of Reaper or Kontakt or the cores.
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:32 PM   #12
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well, if you do a glissando with the pedal down, do you know how many voices are used for that? can be easily more than 200. so I would guess that is a max voice problem at that point. and not a problem of Reaper or Kontakt or the cores.
When I try to duplicate the overload with Scarbee glissando with all keys playing this doesn't happen.

Check out the pick of my Windows Task Manager in my above post. You'll see the one Core getting hit hard!

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Old 10-30-2014, 06:35 PM   #13
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When I try to duplicate the overload with Scarbee glissando with all keys playing this doesn't happen.

SEA
Does this mean that there is also no spike in your CPU?

One more thing you can do: in Kontakt you can dial the max number of voices that can be played. What is that number in Scarbee and what in SonicCouture EP 76?
Now, when playing again SonicCouture EP 76, raise that Max number of voices to e.g. 300. What happens?
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Old 10-31-2014, 07:13 AM   #14
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Does this mean that there is also no spike in your CPU?

One more thing you can do: in Kontakt you can dial the max number of voices that can be played. What is that number in Scarbee and what in SonicCouture EP 76?
Now, when playing again SonicCouture EP 76, raise that Max number of voices to e.g. 300. What happens?
By default the SonicCouture EP76 is set to 100 voices (perhaps this is Kontakts default.) I did as you suggested and Max numbered the voices to 300. Same problem still occurs.

However, there are 3 separate samples layered together in the EP76. You have:

1. Line Out (this is the main Rhodes sound)
2. Microphone samples
3. Contact Mic samples

You have an option to load or unload these samples. When I unload the Microphone and Contact Mic samples then I do not get the CPU overload. When I load the sample even just one group of them, then I get the overload.

You also have layers like... 1 layer, 2 layer, 3 layer of samples. Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 2 layers, you still get the overload.

Perhaps you don't get as much as (lets say) when you have 300 voices and all 3 layers but it's still at least 80% of the crunch or more.

When you unload I one of the samples like the Microphone. Then you might get less crunch like 30% but still overload.

Now DFD is turned off so all the samples are loaded in my ram. So what's causing the CPU strain? Bad coding? That's what one programmer thought it could be.

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Old 10-31-2014, 02:54 PM   #15
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Okay, so the question is: do you need those samples for the sound to be essential for your song or could you do without them and still finish your song the way you had it in your mind?
Next would be contacting SonicCouture and ask them for advice.
And I wrote you a PM, have a read.
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Old 10-31-2014, 03:08 PM   #16
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Okay, so the question is: do you need those samples for the sound to be essential for your song or could you do without them and still finish your song the way you had it in your mind?
Next would be contacting SonicCouture and ask them for advice.
And I wrote you a PM, have a read.

The other samples are more like clicks and hammer sounds, not the tone so you could finish the piece without them.

However, you could then add them into the mix after the fact when rendering and then capture those sounds if desired.
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:25 PM   #17
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By default the SonicCouture EP76 is set to 100 voices (perhaps this is Kontakts default.) I did as you suggested and Max numbered the voices to 300. Same problem still occurs.
Hi SEA, 300 voices is quite a few, I don't think I have any of my Kontakt instruments set any where near that high.

Quote:
However, there are 3 separate samples layered together in the EP76. You have:

1. Line Out (this is the main Rhodes sound)
2. Microphone samples
3. Contact Mic samples

You have an option to load or unload these samples. When I unload the Microphone and Contact Mic samples then I do not get the CPU overload. When I load the sample even just one group of them, then I get the overload.

You also have layers like... 1 layer, 2 layer, 3 layer of samples. Doesn't matter if it's 1 or 2 layers, you still get the overload.

Perhaps you don't get as much as (lets say) when you have 300 voices and all 3 layers but it's still at least 80% of the crunch or more.

When you unload I one of the samples like the Microphone. Then you might get less crunch like 30% but still overload.

Now DFD is turned off so all the samples are loaded in my ram. So what's causing the CPU strain? Bad coding? That's what one programmer thought it could be.

SEA
Okay, does this instrument have a crossfade for the different dynamic layers, which is usually the Mod wheel but could be something else? You mention 3 layers, is that the number of layers they have in the Mapping Editor? So if you run your finger up a 61 note keyboard from top to bottom with sustain, that's 183 voices right there. Now if you add the Microphone samples and they're set up the same, that's 366 voices. That's just going up, but if you go up and come back down again, that probably adds another 366 voices (732 voices).

I think the default voices in Kontakt is 32, I don't know for sure, I haven't had a reason to check it in any recent times.

Something else to check is to see if there are any group voicings in the Group Editor. It's doubtful that it has any group voicings set up but if it does, that could also have an affect on how many voices you can play at a time. The way you check that is to click on a group in the Group Editor and then at the bottom of the Group Editor you will see Group Voicings. If it has no voicings then it should say non, or something to that affect, I don't have Kontakt in front of me right now so it might be slightly differnt. However, I wouldn't think this should have an affect on your CPU.

Have you checked to see how the Reaper project works and what's happening CPU wise without this instrument in Kontakt?
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Old 10-31-2014, 04:38 PM   #18
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Hi SEA, 300 voices is quite a few, I don't think I have any of my Kontakt instruments set any where near that high.



Okay, does this instrument have a crossfade for the different dynamic layers, which is usually the Mod wheel but could be something else? You mention 3 layers, is that the number of layers they have in the Mapping Editor? So if you run your finger up a 61 note keyboard from top to bottom with sustain, that's 183 voices right there. Now if you add the Microphone samples and they're set up the same, that's 366 voices. That's just going up, but if you go up and come back down again, that probably adds another 366 voices (732 voices).

I think the default voices in Kontakt is 32, I don't know for sure, I haven't had a reason to check it in any recent times.

Something else to check is to see if there are any group voicings in the Group Editor. It's doubtful that it has any group voicings set up but if it does, that could also have an affect on how many voices you can play at a time. The way you check that is to click on a group in the Group Editor and then at the bottom of the Group Editor you will see Group Voicings. If it has no voicings then it should say non, or something to that affect, I don't have Kontakt in front of me right now so it might be slightly differnt. However, I wouldn't think this should have an affect on your CPU.

Have you checked to see how the Reaper project works and what's happening CPU wise without this instrument in Kontakt?
Thanks Tod! Reaper and CPU seems fine (even with this instrument fully loaded) my CPU is like 5%

What's odd is that I have Direct From Disk (DFD) turned off in Kontakt so that way I load ALL the samples into my ram (which is like 1.71 gigs) So... what does it task my 1 core as in the pick I posted above? Surely it's not a ram issue so... what's the catch?

However, I can use this piano with no problems without the other samples loaded. They just give you that "percussive" sound like the hammers hitting etc. I can always turn it on when rendering and then no problems there!

But I'll check what you suggested over the weekend for sure and get back to the forum!

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Old 10-31-2014, 06:01 PM   #19
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So I did read a little in the manual of SonicCouture, and it has this interesting passage:
WARNING!
PEDAL RESONANCE is extremely demanding on your CPU, so be
aware of this when you bring it up. If you get crackles or distortion
of some sort when using RESONANCE you may need to either
increase the playback latency of your system or else just turn it off
again. It’s off by default in all our presets because of this, so only
use it if your computer is up to the task.
And also:
The pedal also makes a bit of a clunky noise as it goes up and down. This
level is controlled with the NOISE knob in the Pedal section.
See page 14-15.

Maybe this parameter needs to be a little pushed down to prevent crackling?
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Old 10-31-2014, 06:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99 View Post
So I did read a little in the manual of SonicCouture, and it has this interesting passage:
WARNING!
PEDAL RESONANCE is extremely demanding on your CPU, so be
aware of this when you bring it up. If you get crackles or distortion
of some sort when using RESONANCE you may need to either
increase the playback latency of your system or else just turn it off
again. It’s off by default in all our presets because of this, so only
use it if your computer is up to the task.
And also:
The pedal also makes a bit of a clunky noise as it goes up and down. This
level is controlled with the NOISE knob in the Pedal section.
See page 14-15.

Maybe this parameter needs to be a little pushed down to prevent crackling?
Thanks Paul! I'll check it out over the weekend!
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Old 11-01-2014, 05:17 AM   #21
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So I did some more testing this morning. As I mentioned above I am using some heavy mastering plugs like the the Waves Maserati and J37. Well... When I disable these plugs... then I can play the EP76 at 100 voices while doing glissandos with no CPU overload. Turn either one of the Waves plugs back on and I get the crunch again.

Also the patch I'm using has all 3 samples and all 3 layers. It's the "Line + Contacts Chunky" patch.

So with that being said, I created a project with ZERO plugs and only 1 track of the EP76 with the Line + Contacts Chunky patch and at 300 voices I still get CPU crunch.

I also turned off the Pedal Resonance and then turned it back on and cranked it! With the Pedal resonance off or on it didn't matter. I still had the same crunch with 300 voiced and no other plugs.

I guess my system being a dual Xeon system and my CPU is 2.1 GHz (2.6 Turbo) is one reason since VST use only 1 core and ignore the other 11 cores (nice) unless perhaps you are in standalone mode vs. VSTI (from what I understand.) This system was built for not only music but for video production using Adobes daw specs (Adobe recommends a dual Xeon 12 core system for video editing.) Adobes software is designed to use your multi cores. In the daw world I guess it's best to go with the fastest processors your money can buy (from what serr and others have mentioned in other threads).

Plus you can configure Reaper to be more "Daw Specific" in your preferences as discussed on this thread here. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=143101

However the GOOD news is I can keep it at 100 voices without the CPU crunch and just turn off either my mastering plugs or only use the Line Out samples and then load the microphone and contact mic samples when I'm ready to mix down.

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