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09-24-2014, 02:34 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Yeah, Reaper rocks over Protools !
So,
Today i had to add SFX and music to a movie.
I had no experience with Reaper in this regard, and, cause of a deadly deadline, i openend Protools 11, to do the job. ( i am very familiar with Protools, don't wanted to go out of my comfortzone).
So i imported the movie in Protools and then wanted to imported music and SFX:
Protools Error: Out of memory.
WTF: I run Protools 11 (64bit based and i have 16 gigs of RAM in my macbook), this can't be true !
The movie is an 150 mb MP4 !!
So long Protools 11.
I opened Reaper, imported movie, imported music and SFX without any hassle.
I then began to sync SFX and music to movie in Reaper : all went smooth as butter : an unbelievable experience !
Again, another amazing experience for me in Reaper.
Who needs Protools 11 ?!
I guess no one, when you have met Reaper, and that for a fraction of the Protools price.
Dear Avid, please stop with your business.
Reaper is a DAW, Protools is a joke.
Amen.
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09-24-2014, 04:22 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 882
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Just curious: why would anyone buy Reaper who owns already Protools? I would like to understand people that use more than one DAW (unless you have a professional studio). I mean it takes a lot of time to get familiarized with a piece of software so why hazzle yourself with more? Not to mention the costs! I come from Cubase 5 and I was not willing to pay 500 euros for a new version.
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09-24-2014, 05:01 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lincoln, UK
Posts: 7,924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99
Just curious: why would anyone buy Reaper who owns already Protools? I would like to understand people that use more than one DAW (unless you have a professional studio). I mean it takes a lot of time to get familiarized with a piece of software so why hazzle yourself with more? Not to mention the costs! I come from Cubase 5 and I was not willing to pay 500 euros for a new version.
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Different tools for different jobs. If you're professional, ie doing this for clients for money, you use whatever gets the job done easiest and quickest so you get paid. That's the bottom line in professional audio.
PT can't tempo map your orchestral tracks, REAPER can? -use REAPER for that particular job and PT for the other stuff in the session. Job gets done, everybody is happy, next...
>
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09-24-2014, 05:12 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 882
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Ah, okay I see. You're a professional. Than it's quite understandably.
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09-25-2014, 10:17 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Dear Paul99,
What on earth are you doing in this community when you wonder why people should buy Reaper if they have Protools ?!
Or was that question ment as a joke ?
First of all, i do audio production for a living, so call me professional indeed.
But the point that i was making in my first post is that Protools (again) failed to me while i was trying to do a relative simple job in Protools 11, and then when doing it in Reaper, the job went utterly smooth without stupid errors.
And now you ask me why should also buy Reaper ?!
I am just dreaming of all protools users, switching to Reaper, experiencing heaven for a fraction of the price.
@ my parttime job, people are working with protools and dont have the guts to change DAW.
When i show them things in Reaper, they just say.."mmm yeah that all is pretty awesome"
But taking the step and switch is a bridge too far for them.
They rather stay in their rusty comfortzone.
Sorry, i am just so happy with Reaper, i am problaby too posessed to make others also switch to Reaper.
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09-25-2014, 11:00 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99
Just curious: why would anyone buy Reaper who owns already Protools? I would like to understand people that use more than one DAW (unless you have a professional studio). I mean it takes a lot of time to get familiarized with a piece of software so why hazzle yourself with more? Not to mention the costs! I come from Cubase 5 and I was not willing to pay 500 euros for a new version.
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We had to do something when they broke Protools and it stopped being Protools! New DAW shootouts were had. Reaper won.
Things change sometimes. As for why people invested in it in the past and became so loyal to the product, they really truly did have the best DAW (that I was aware of) for a good long time. And weather or not it was because they were the first on the block with hardware processing (back before computers were anywhere near fast enough to run a DAW natively), they had stable solid code to go with it.
It DOES take work to learn a new system. In hindsight though I wish I would have made the switch 2 years sooner because it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
I am just dreaming of all protools users, switching to Reaper, experiencing heaven for a fraction of the price.
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Dream for you, a nightmare for Avid!
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
@ my parttime job, people are working with protools and dont have the guts to change DAW.
When i show them things in Reaper, they just say.."mmm yeah that all is pretty awesome"
But taking the step and switch is a bridge too far for them.
They rather stay in their rusty comfortzone.
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I had that argument with myself before I switched!
Using Reaper to run live sound but still stubbornly using Protools in the studio for a couple years.
Last edited by serr; 09-25-2014 at 04:33 PM.
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09-25-2014, 12:03 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 882
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Dear Vanhaze, communication is difficult, and doing that in a foreign language is an extra challenge. However, in my defense, I did mention that I would understand professionals and since you obviously are, you are not the one I mentioned. I was asking why hobbyists like me would have more than one DAW. I took me quit some time to get used to Cubase. And in the process of deciding to buy the new Cubase 7.5, I accidentally saw a video about Reaper. And I liked what I saw and also very much their update policy (two versions for free!) and also the price which is unbeatable! And extra extra was the fact that you are allowed to try the program for 60 (!) days without any limitations like bleeps or noises every once and a while which makes it virtually impossible to really test something. So I became curious to try the program and I already knew within one hour: this was my new DAW to be! And I immediately bought it. I have not yet been disappointed in this program. The stability is phenomenal. The customization are endless: finally I can put my VST(i)'s in a folder of my wish and not some developer's choice. There are a lot of good video's about Reaper on youtube, this forum is fantastic and within one week I already received my hard-copy of the Reaper manual. When I started Cubase, I could make a cop of coffee for myself. When firing up a project, I could make another cup of coffee. With Reaper that is impossible. So my only worry now is: how do I get my regular share of caffeine during the day? ;-)
I hope I passed my Reaper adaption examination?
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09-25-2014, 12:26 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planetnine
Different tools for different jobs. If you're professional, ie doing this for clients for money, you use whatever gets the job done easiest and quickest so you get paid. That's the bottom line in professional audio.
PT can't tempo map your orchestral tracks, REAPER can? -use REAPER for that particular job and PT for the other stuff in the session. Job gets done, everybody is happy, next...
>
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Well said. Frankly, I don't get this continuing obsession with "beating PT and converting PT users". Reaper clearly does some (many) things better, and vice versa, so it all seems kinda silly, to slam a product only because it failed in one use case, while completely ignoring anything it actually does better.
It's kinda odd, the inferiority complex. I occasionally read the DUC and I never see people starting threads talking about how PT destroyed Reaper in x use case... or people concerned about converting Reaper users to PT.
Last edited by Lawrence; 09-25-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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09-25-2014, 01:04 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
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Reading people put down Protools is a big joke, how you can do that is beyond me.
I dont have protools but I have herd the music people produce with it and you want get anything better.
Protools 11 is probably the best Daw out there,
so protools dident play an SFX file !!!! big deal its no reason to put it down, and start saying its no good
Reaper is a very good Daw but I think we all know Protools is better, please stop kidding your selfs or do your home work properly.
Are you telling me every one that uses protools has not ever used another Daw, are you telling me every one that uses Protools is incapable of making up there minds to choose what Daw they want to use.
I tell you what !!!! if you are coming from Protools 11 to reaper and you feel you are not going to use Protools again please sell it to me, I will give you all my details phone number, bank acount, address and we can do a sale.
There is a very good reason why you find Protools in nearly every top producers music studio, and that reason is not because they havent had the opportunity to try or use other Daws, the reason is it is the music industry standard, Protools dose not get to be the music industry standard if it is a crap Daw, or because it dosent do this or it dosent do that oh and I cant do this with Protools .
Its the top because it meets the needs of very good producers.
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09-25-2014, 01:44 PM
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novaburst
Protools 11 is probably the best Daw out there,
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who told you that? people that only know PT and therefor are the most competent to make such a bold statement? bs-talkers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by novaburst
There is a very good reason why you find Protools in nearly every top producers music studio, and that reason is not because they havent had the opportunity to try or use other Daws, the reason is it is the music industry standard, Protools dose not get to be the music industry standard if it is a crap Daw, or because it dosent do this or it dosent do that oh and I cant do this with Protools .
Its the top because it meets the needs of very good producers.
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that is completely bs.
1. PT is in every bigger studio because compatibility is a big issue.
2. once they have bought PT ages ago they dont change their system in a running bussiness and install new DAWs and learn for half a year.
3. there are old projects. you dont want them in case not to port to another DAW.
4. the term industry standard is bullshit. a standard is not what is used by most, then McDonalds would be food standard and the SUN (UK) or BILD (Germany) would be journalism/literature standard, a standard is something that is a groundlaying rule stated by competent people to make things measurable, compatible and such. a standard is an overall abstract common sense. and PT is not a standard. PT is most used for above given reasons. the same why Access and Excel is still used everywhere, although it is bs compared to other (open and real) standards.
5. and PT isnt the top. to define something as "the top" you would have to have objective measurements to compare every DAW to it. something set as standard from the UNESCO or such. :-)) or a Deutsche Industrie Norm für DAWs - that doesnt exist.
all in all: I come from Cubase, I dont dislike Cubase to this day and I KNEW and KNOW, that Cubase is in some regards way beyond PT, and I changed to Reaper. there are a lot of reasons for doing this, I am not willing to list them all here. mostly small things, not so important things, but I decided to switch after 25 years of using Cubase. my closest friend runs PT. because of compatibility with others she has to deal with. so I know some things about PT. and PT is not the best.
in fact there is nothing I or friends of mine came across, that is not doable one way or another in Cubase, PT ... and Reaper. so how can someone blow out such a bold statement as PT is the best??? you can work even with FL or Audacity or what-do-I-know.
so, please, save it for Gearslutz. we dont need another DAW-war, its pointless. I enjoy listening to music a lot, and do you know, what matters the least for me? how this music was recorded, with which DAW, with which pres, with which mics and cables and which God was brought what sacrifice. and I think that 99,99% of all music-lovers as interested in these questions as me. not at all.
so I cant imagine what religious attraction to PT makes you put out such rants, we have heard a millionth time before and put aside as bs for a million times.
make music ... be happy, that you have a killer-DAW for 60$ and go on ...
edit: for the "very good producers" I have to say, that the term is wrong. it isnt "very good", it must be "successful", and that is something completely different. because they are successful they work in the big studios, and what do they find there? PT. right. Alan Parsons was asked what DAW and what gear he uses in the studio. his answer was: whats there. that is what successful producers do, using whats there. everything else in marketing-videos is hogwash and bs blahblah. regardless who says so.
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09-25-2014, 02:44 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Sorry, didn't mean to start a DAW war.
But, i am just throwing facts, based on my many years of experience with "No Tools" ;
@ my Parttime job (soundengineer & system supervisor for more than 10 years)) at a big radio station in Holland, we have 5 production studio's each running Protools 10 on MacPro's.(2011)
Each day i have to help one of my colleages soundengineers, cause:
Protools doesn't startup anymore, a Protools project doesn't load anymore, sync errors between Avid hardware and Protools, missing soundfiles in Projects, crashing Protools when using elastic audio, DAE errors all over the place, hard freezes in Protools.
And believe me, those macpro's are very well and professionally configured.
And my colleages soundengineers DO know what they are doing, they are well trained and capable, Protools wise.
@ my Parttime job, I myself use Reaper on Motu 2408 mkIII hardware (cause Avid Audiodriver for thirdparty DAWs sucks bigtime, performance wise).
Now, for starters, i feel pity for my colleages, cause i don't experience ANY of their problems.
Instead, my setup runs smooth as butter.
So yeah, my colleages are jealous at me, ofcourse.
But then again, they want to stay with Protools 10. (too bad imho).
A few weeks ago, there were the Imaging Days in Holland, a gathering/seminar of major soundengineers from all over the world, talking about making radio sound imaging.
Most of them were on Protools, and they all made the simple joke/statement; " yeah, we work on protools, and we know it crashes alot. but we don't mind, we know it crashes, we are used to it"
Please don't give me that cr@p that Protools (11) being be better than Reaper.
That statement doesnt make any sense at all, please do your homework.
If i only grab the stability argument concerning Protools against Reaper , Reaper is a winner by far.
And for me, that's only tip of the iceberg.
Just MY 2 cents.
Whiteaxxxe : thank you for your very good post.
Last edited by vanhaze; 09-25-2014 at 02:54 PM.
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09-25-2014, 02:51 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
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Hi whiteaxxxe
Yes your right it was a bit of a rant,
Ok let me change one or two things what I said, but firstly I dont intend or dont believe I am starting DAW war.
Im trying to alert the fact that to many of us seem to start bashing other Daws once we find a new Daw, thats all sorry if you dident get that point, or it came out wrong.
Ok next I said We all know Protools is the best Daw out there, ok let me change that.
for the millionth and one time I think Protools is the best Daw out there.
Sorry if you have herd this to many times a million you say.
Yep thats what I think Protools is the best out there, that make it 1 million and two times you have herd it, mind you I could be wrong, its just me, or it could be bla bla bla or what ever
I have not got Protools, but from what I have seen and herd makes me believe it is the best. oooohps that makes it 1 million and 3 times you have herd it.
Now Im know body so this statement shouldent matter becuase its me or I that thinks it.
I think maybe I just dont like it when people put other Daws down for know true valid reason thats all
stay cool
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09-25-2014, 03:07 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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So you don't have Protools, thus, never ever used it and experienced it yourself, and still stating it's the best DAW ?
This is the Joke of the Year people.
Please don't make such a fool out of yourself, it's really embarrasing i think.
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09-25-2014, 03:53 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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There is something for everyone. I don't believe there is a single best of anything for everyone. And claims of "best" are silly and probably meant to start a fun argument. And I know how much I LOVE to partake in "my DAW can beat up your DAW" discussions.....
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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09-25-2014, 06:20 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 66
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Pt is useful for archival and compatability.
It is relevant for tracking bands, and video post.
If you are a 1 or 2 man show in the studio, it is getting long in the tooth imo. ymmv
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09-25-2014, 06:36 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
There is something for everyone. I don't believe there is a single best of anything for everyone. And claims of "best" are silly and probably meant to start a fun argument. And I know how much I LOVE to partake in "my DAW can beat up your DAW" discussions.....
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Pro Tools is a big lightning rod.
I belong to a private pro audio group on Facebook with mostly Nashville guys who are, with nary any exception at all, are pro engineers and PT users who record and mix truly exceptional quality music. I don't care what they use though, we all make our own choices. I'm humbled by their output, and know mine is inferior, but I don't feel inferior about their daw choices.
But their mixes are spectacular with a capital S. One guy's client roster reads like the country pop chart. I'd challenge anyone saying PT is shite to top or match their output quality before debating software.
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09-25-2014, 07:49 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,409
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I don't get involved in these discussions bc PT doesn't have MIDI, right? eg If youre gonna try for real pro-drumming customized to your tracks you optimally need a] Pro-drummer accomplice, that is, someone Pro-level to record live, whom you might have to pay, argue with, sober up, bail out etc.. or b] MIDI
So weighing up the costs and flexibility of workflow...
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09-25-2014, 07:53 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I'd challenge anyone saying PT is shite to top or match their output quality before debating software.
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Quoted for emphasis. Nicely said.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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09-25-2014, 08:00 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I'd challenge anyone saying PT is shite to top or match their output quality before debating software.
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Quote:
Quoted for emphasis. Nicely said.
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But a DAW outputs nothing, right? I couldn't have made my album on protools, at least to the same standard, [marred somewhat by a crap soundcard and inexperience] but the PT version would have meant doing stuff im not good at or sample based by necessity, would not have been nearly as good imho.
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09-25-2014, 08:14 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Don't get me wrong, I only use Reaper. In fact, I have never even seriously tried another DAW besides a few demo periods, but never PT. But what Lawrence is saying is that it's not the DAW, it's the producer/engineer, his/her ears, and some good sense that matter.
Morgon, you could have done just as good of work on Protools if that's what you decided to work with. I personally could care less about "industry standards". But at the same time, I HAVE missed a few opportunities because I couldn't easily open a PT session for a potential client.....
There is something for everyone and nothing is right for each person.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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09-26-2014, 01:42 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 545
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It is a misconception many people have about Pro Tools as being the ‘number 1 professional software’.
This is because professional studios use Pro tools hardware and these were, in early days, the best hardware you could buy.
Pro Tools was the front-end integration software for the Pro Tools hardware. This is where it gets it reputation from. Nothing else. I saw plenty of people using windows versions of Pro Tools thinking they were cool, while missing the point completely.
As a Professional of 30 years working in the music biz, software industry and recording studios, I can say that it’s not what you use, it’s how you use it.
I use Reaper because it does what I want it to. It’s stable. It’s supported (another important one). It’s huge.
The things in software that professionals want, are stability (the main one), clarity of sound and no glitches.
Using Cubase or Pro Tools does not make your music sound better and Pro Tools without PT Hardware is pointless. Your friends might think you are cooler, but that’s the only benefit.
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09-26-2014, 04:46 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 947
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Its the driver behind the "wheel" that matters and not the "car" he's using.
End of story!
cheers
__________________
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Macbook Pro | Audient ID44+ASP880 | Apogee Duet 2
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09-26-2014, 08:39 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast
It is a misconception many people have about Pro Tools as being the ‘number 1 professional software’.
This is because professional studios use Pro tools hardware and these were, in early days, the best hardware you could buy.
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But it's not all misconception. It's more the case that people recording themselves at home don't need the things larger professional studios need so they're mostly clueless about any advantages coded into the PT software.
A couple of short examples...
- It's automation blows away almost everything else from $600 down.
- It's monitoring is built for professional level studio use.
- It's import/export filters are built to handle common pro formats.
Honestly, Reaper and Studio One don't even have AFL/PFL, or a solo bus, and frankly, Reaper's automation is very poor. To suggest "my software is designed as well as Pro Tools" in every way, or in the ways that matter most for conventional studio work is just plain not true. It's the lie people tell themselves to feel better about their choice.
You get the same with Nuendo, people saying "my daw can do anything it can do" which is ... well... bullshit.
I know the comparative limitations of my tools and I don't feel the need to create fake comparisons where my tool wins or is better in every way. It's simply not true. Fact of the matter is most people ragging on PT have never even owned or used it.
I personally never liked using it, but it's a good piece of software.
Last edited by Lawrence; 09-26-2014 at 08:45 AM.
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09-26-2014, 11:46 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
But it's not all misconception.
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Admittedly, I've not seen it since the early 2000's so I may be wrong in regards to what Pro Tools is today.
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09-26-2014, 12:15 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro Audio Enthusiast
Admittedly, I've not seen it since the early 2000's so I may be wrong in regards to what Pro Tools is today.
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Yeah, that's what i was getting at in general. I used Cubase for years for example and I would regularly read people bashing it who both 1) hadn't used it in many years and 2) apparently hadn't even really learned it when they did use it, and 3) many who actually had never even owned it at all, but were using the SX3 crack which was all over the net.
But yeah, my initial experience with PT LE 6 was horrifying. My perception of it was overwhelmingly negative. That was partly my fault, not having approved hardware, it crashed an awful lot.
It's a much, much better product now, on the native side... but it still does have some known bugs that annoy people.
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09-26-2014, 01:17 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central US
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
But it's not all misconception. It's more the case that people recording themselves at home don't need the things larger professional studios need so they're mostly clueless about any advantages coded into the PT software.
A couple of short examples...
- It's automation blows away almost everything else from $600 down.
- It's monitoring is built for professional level studio use.
- It's import/export filters are built to handle common pro formats.
Honestly, Reaper and Studio One don't even have AFL/PFL, or a solo bus, and frankly, Reaper's automation is very poor. To suggest "my software is designed as well as Pro Tools" in every way, or in the ways that matter most for conventional studio work is just plain not true. It's the lie people tell themselves to feel better about their choice.
You get the same with Nuendo, people saying "my daw can do anything it can do" which is ... well... bullshit.
I know the comparative limitations of my tools and I don't feel the need to create fake comparisons where my tool wins or is better in every way. It's simply not true. Fact of the matter is most people ragging on PT have never even owned or used it.
I personally never liked using it, but it's a good piece of software.
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Everyone has a point... to a point.
There's no DIN/SMPTE/AES/UL/CSA/IEC etc. "industry standard" software for digital audio workstations. If there was a strictly defined, rigidly controlled laboratory standard, it would be brutal to maintain that standard and code software that worked the same on every computer (Win, Mac or Commodore 64), in every instance, under all practical circumstances. It would make software so expensive to update, we'd still be in Reaper beta.
It would be like having a bulletproof, rollcaged head-of-state transport to take the kids to daycare. Yeah, cool as all get out, but the fuel bills and maintenance/repair would be murderous.
Having said that, the term "industry standard" is one of the most tired cliches in advertising. It means nothing in the real world, other than a successful company marketed and sold their product to a bunch of people. In fact, so many jumped on it all at once, and they've invested so much in software, firmware, hardware and peripherals, that re-financing for new stuff would crunch credit harder than the housing crisis.
To that end, the consumers (and pro, semipro or bedroom, we're all consumers) have decided to dance with the one they brought to the party.
I've never worked on PT. Can't speak on it. What I do know is I can't afford it.
With Reaper, however, I can record sound files that can be uploaded to any studio, to use with any DAW. I can record and edit MIDI, record, edit and process audio tracks, mixdown and complete finished masters... yes, I do it at home, with nothing but a closet for an iso booth. I've had some pretty well-educated ears tell me that my music sounds great. To top it off, my plugins are all freeware!
It wouldn't be too difficult to suggest the features you want, and get them written in the code. That's where Reaper stands out.
As for AFL/PFL? Monitoring quality? All that can be addressed in the peripherals -- the interfaces and control surfaces. That's where the differences between pro and bedroom truly exist. That's where the pros excel, with environments and equipment designed for the purpose.
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09-26-2014, 01:31 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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And so it goes. . The text you quoted from me didn't even use the phrase "industry standard", but it always comes up because (apparently) many are very unnecessarily highly annoyed by a simple marketing phrase. Among many producers, engineers and record companies, people making records, the PT format is considered the standard format that replaced 2" tape. Whether it actually deserves to be that still or not is beside the point.
I only pointed out that PT does - some - things - way - better than some other products and is more configured to behave like real consoles behave in some ways, which is attractive to some people doing that work.
As to "recording sound files that can be used in any workstation" (???) they all do that.
I'll never really get the PT hated - especially by people who have obviously already found something they prefer, but still dwell on hating PT, proving it sucks, whatever - so I should do what Mercado Negro suggests, ignore it.
Again, i don't personally like using it... but I also don't hate it. It's just another software product.
Anyway, Reaper rocks, PT sucks balls. When in Rome.
Last edited by Lawrence; 09-26-2014 at 01:45 PM.
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09-26-2014, 01:58 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 534
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I think what many do not understand is the huge difference between HD and Native systems. In many cases, it's a night and day difference.
In my experience, when people complain about performance issues, it's usually with a native system, and as said many times before, HD folks are too busy making music and posting films and TV.
That's not to say HD systems are problem free, but every time I've worked with PT HD, it's been positive - meaning rock solid performance. In contrast, Pro Tools native on my Hackintosh is passable (depending on the the VSTi's used), and uneven with the simplest of projects on my 2009 Macbook Pro.
tg
__________________
Mac Studio M1 MAX / 64GB / 2TB HD / macOS Ventura 13.6.3 / RME BabyFace Pro FS / SSL UF8 + UF1 + UC1 / Roland SYSTEM 8 / Kontrol S61 mk3 / Keylab 61 mkII / Komplete 14 / Omnisphere / Keyscape / Trilian / V Collection X / UVI Falcon
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09-26-2014, 02:10 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Just to clarify: As relates to the software, PTHD software doesn't even require AVID hardware anymore. You can use the PTHD software with all the same functions (except hardware based plugins) without using any of AVID's hardware. The stuff I was talking about like automation is all software and has nothing to do with the HD hardware.
Now actually buying PTHD software new without buying or owning any AVID hardware is currently, as I understand it, pretty tricky... and may require some ebay wrangling, and it's rather pricey like Nuendo.
I mean, if you have an iLok you can just go get the PTHD demo and have all the same software functions people with pimped out HD rigs have, minus the hardware DSP of course.
Last edited by Lawrence; 09-26-2014 at 02:20 PM.
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09-26-2014, 02:15 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Now actually buying PTHD software new without buying any AVID hardware is currently, as I understand it, pretty tricky... and it's rather pricey like Nuendo.
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True. I'm currently looking at the ins and outs of an Omni system - mostly to be compatible with my day job - and I do not know of a way to get the HD software without the hardware.
Sorry, I didn't mean to derail the thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled PT bashing... LOL ;-)
tg
__________________
Mac Studio M1 MAX / 64GB / 2TB HD / macOS Ventura 13.6.3 / RME BabyFace Pro FS / SSL UF8 + UF1 + UC1 / Roland SYSTEM 8 / Kontrol S61 mk3 / Keylab 61 mkII / Komplete 14 / Omnisphere / Keyscape / Trilian / V Collection X / UVI Falcon
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09-26-2014, 03:43 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Gloucester UK
Posts: 32
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Reaper has a lot going for it - stable programming, and IMO a better long term business model. Big studios are not a growth market - home recording is.
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09-26-2014, 04:01 PM
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#32
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oud West, NL
Posts: 2,335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99
Just curious: why would anyone buy Reaper who owns already Protools? I would like to understand people that use more than one DAW (unless you have a professional studio). I mean it takes a lot of time to get familiarized with a piece of software so why hazzle yourself with more? Not to mention the costs! I come from Cubase 5 and I was not willing to pay 500 euros for a new version.
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Yes, I know, your post has been quoted many times, and I doing the same too. It really is a valid question to ask, whether or not you, I or anyone else is supposed to 'intuit' the answer. Really the answer to this is All of the Above and any other reason you can think of. Some of us just like to learn, know and use lots of different software. I learned to appreciate Reaper infinitely more by studying how various other DAWs functioned. Also, for breakdown or security reasons, yes, you do want to have another recording-able program ready to 'roll' at a moments notice. Can a DAW break. Well, yes and no ... but weirder things happen in computerland all the time.
One thing to remember, perhaps, is that these DAWs morph and change over time. Some get better; some get worse. In the last 20+ years a couple have even crawled off and died! This is then encouragement not to be too quick to judge someone's choice or change of DAWs. Brand X that was the great Top Dog of yesterday can -- over a few releases -- become today's Dog Poop. Of course, the opposite can occur as well. It happens.
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09-26-2014, 04:20 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central US
Posts: 467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
And so it goes. . The text you quoted from me didn't even use the phrase "industry standard", but it always comes up because (apparently) many are very unnecessarily highly annoyed by a simple marketing phrase.
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I was addressing those who did use the phrase. BTW, my college prof in business marketing told me that's what those slogans were supposed to do, be annoying. That's how they earworm into your mind. In his words, "if you don't get a reaction, good or bad, you're doing it wrong."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Among many producers, engineers and record companies, people making records, the PT format is considered the standard format that replaced 2" tape. Whether it actually deserves to be that still or not is beside the point.
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I came up in the analog era. It mattered very much which brand and formula of tape was used, under which circumstances; some did certain things better than others. 3M had its' cheerleaders, Ampex had its' fanboys, and the European and Japanese brands had their dedicated cadres.
Nowadays? If anyone can tell what DAW recorded a particular sound file simply by hearing it, they're either BS'ing or they've got alien in their DNA. Obviously, for pro use, some file formats are better than others, but I have yet to meet anyone who can tell a Nuendo project from a PT, or Reaper from Reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I only pointed out that PT does - some - things - way - better than some other products and is more configured to behave like real consoles behave in some ways, which is attractive to some people doing that work.
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That's as it should be. There are some different design and programming philosophies that can't be covered by swapping skins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
I'll never really get the PT hated - especially by people who have obviously already found something they prefer, but still dwell on hating PT, proving it sucks, whatever - so I should do what Mercado Negro suggests, ignore it.
Again, i don't personally like using it... but I also don't hate it. It's just another software product.
Anyway, Reaper rocks, PT sucks balls. When in Rome.
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I'm not a hater either. If you can afford it, go for it. That doesn't take anything away from Reaper. I like that Reaper subscribes to the open source zeitgeist.
(One of those fancy college words I learned...)
Last edited by ginormous; 09-26-2014 at 06:12 PM.
Reason: correction
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09-26-2014, 06:40 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul99
Just curious: why would anyone buy Reaper who owns already Protools? I would like to understand people that use more than one DAW (unless you have a professional studio). I mean it takes a lot of time to get familiarized with a piece of software so why hazzle yourself with more? Not to mention the costs! I come from Cubase 5 and I was not willing to pay 500 euros for a new version.
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My studio advertises itself as Protools, and we have a pretty capable Protools 11 rig with a MOTU 828, 27-inch iMac, and large-format console (along with Otari reel-to-reel tape). We also have Logic, Cubase, and Sonar. But if I have the option, I always work in REAPER. It's just easier, more reliable, faster, and saner to work with. I don't do too much midi stuff.
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09-27-2014, 11:38 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yep
My studio advertises itself as Protools, and we have a pretty capable Protools 11 rig with a MOTU 828, 27-inch iMac, and large-format console (along with Otari reel-to-reel tape). We also have Logic, Cubase, and Sonar. But if I have the option, I always work in REAPER. It's just easier, more reliable, faster, and saner to work with. I don't do too much midi stuff.
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That sums it up really, Pro Tools is a necessity if you're needing to keep compatibility with the industry standard, after that use what you like.
MC
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09-27-2014, 12:49 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook
That sums it up really, Pro Tools is a necessity if you're needing to keep compatibility with the industry standard, after that use what you like.
MC
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Pretty much. It's the only reason I bought an MBox for $500 when I already had Cubase and a MOTU 2408 and a digital console.
Although... I use AATranlator now, PT to OpenTL or whatever else.
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09-27-2014, 01:02 PM
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#37
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: United States of Europe, Germany, Mönchengladbach
Posts: 2,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence
Pro Tools is a big lightning rod.
I belong to a private pro audio group on Facebook with mostly Nashville guys who are, with nary any exception at all, are pro engineers and PT users who record and mix truly exceptional quality music. I don't care what they use though, we all make our own choices. I'm humbled by their output, and know mine is inferior, but I don't feel inferior about their daw choices.
But their mixes are spectacular with a capital S. One guy's client roster reads like the country pop chart. I'd challenge anyone saying PT is shite to top or match their output quality before debating software.
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yeah, sure, Nashville rocks. :-((( you are not talking serious, or do you? let me tell you, that a know someone from the inside, and I mean the very, very inside of the Nashville music-making-community, and he rants every time about the stupidest, most narrowminded, racism-ish, brand-name-believing, most selfloving town in the world. its not Düsseldorf. its Nashville. if you come up in this eco-environment with a not american brand guitar, you are done. if you are not white and have not "christianity" and/or "I love Reagan, Bush and Sarah Palin" tatooed on xour forehead, you are out. and so on and on and on ... he has told stories from behind closed doors, that you think, let give Nashville an Nuclear Rector and lets have it blown up - by accident, of course.
so that these people - doesnt matter how many hits someone has, can be an idiot, who knows - stick to PT is clear as soemthing can be clear. nobody will change the DAW for reasons given above and for the most important reason you can have there: dont do anythign different than any other person. (now that is what I call "creative minds" ... :-(()
Nashville is the by far worst example you could bring up, when it comes to open thinking.
Nashville ... pah. a whole town making music for republican housewives. (I dont want to insult housewives, the others ... well, I do.) and they use PT. well, the DAW for Tea Baggers ... that went well. :-((
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09-27-2014, 01:08 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Nashville is the by far worst example you could bring up, when it comes to open thinking
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He was wasn't bragging on their open thinking, or how great world citizens they were. He was saying their mixes are far better, and they are. Surprised at the number of stereotypical rocks you tossed when he was only speaking of their chops. Not liking someone, doesn't water down their technical abilities one bit.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 09-27-2014 at 02:00 PM.
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09-27-2014, 01:28 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
He was wasn't bragging on their open thinking, or how great world citizens they were. He was saying their mixes are far better, and they are. Surprised at the number of stereotypical rocks you tossed when he was only speaking of their chops.
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Thanks. I had no clue what he was on about, or why.
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09-27-2014, 03:38 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Praha, Czech republic
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe
..."I love Reagan, Bush and Sarah Palin" tatooed on xour forehead, you are out...
Nashville is the by far worst example you could bring up, when it comes to open thinking.
Nashville ... pah. a whole town making music for republican housewives. (I dont want to insult housewives, the others ... well, I do.) and they use PT. well, the DAW for Tea Baggers ... that went well. :-((
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If you follow your friend's experience, you can try to always introduce yourself in Tennessee with your nickname.. maybe it will be enough even without any tattoos..
I don't think it was so bad example and you unfortunately mixed DAW discussion with bunch of bad stereotypes. Your friend's feeling could be authentic, but it also depends depends on people, he met there. Although i hear expression and hyperbole, you've used, it wasn't really necessary IMO.
I'm definitely not republican housewife and still enjoy some music from Nashville and can appreciate musicianship, great songwriters, mixers and engineers coming from there.
Maybe more interesting than general insults is to admit, there can be also other reasons for their PT usage than marketing, hype or rigid minds. As we are talking about high-profile studios and names, they can easily buy (and in some cases easily endorse for free) any DAW on market. It is probably foolish to think, they (or at least their studio technical staff or integrators) don't think about other stuff, evaluate different choices or haven't been contacted by marketing teams of DAW makers (well it don't apply to Cockos, which don't have any).
AFAIK, Nashville is renowned by their sessions, live tracking and great usage of traditional recording and mixing techniques.. (not so much by progressive usage of VST instruments).. So maybe combination of great analog desk or ICON and PT works really well for them. Or they can just like hardware integrated systems with available on-site installation and support.
Michal
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