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Old 03-21-2015, 09:56 PM   #1
syntaxed2
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Default Reaper 5 - Missing the most asked features?

I might be a complete dolt here but I just cannot find any useful features in the 5PRE versions so far...

I am looking for:

1. Non-destructive glue

2. Media browser preset drag&drop support for vsts/FX Chains (take a look at Studio1 for wonderful implementation)

3. Container Item for envelopes/automation (fruity loops style)


4. time&range/signature lanes customization
5. Region markers, signatures, markers - customization of all visual elements
6. FX window customization
7.


Anyone else, or am I just being egoistic here?
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:44 AM   #2
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While we are free to suggest anything we like, the development team seems of the opinion that unless they share this interest it's a 'decline' by default.
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:50 AM   #3
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Honestly....the folks here should be shown a bit more respect for what "they" are doing.
Just sayin
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:25 AM   #4
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Imho, i don't think anyone here isnt lacking respect for reaper devs.
They have done awesome work, bringing Reaper to what it is now and will further become: just an amazing DAW.
But.. I do feel abit with OP.
Meaning that i too miss the more "obvious" enhancements, which i think every Reaper user will benefit from and will find very useful.
Some very simple but so useful examples:
- vertical autozoom for selected track ( only possible now with a script)
- global setting for toggling auto arm on selected track on or off.
- real shuffle mode ala protools, no, ripple editing works different ...

Well, i can go on and on.
Imho implementation of these would enhance workflow for EVERY Reaper, not just me.

Sometimes i get a feeling that new reaper features being implemented are way over my head, still being quite a reaper rookie i suppose. And then to be honest, i rather see some very obvious workflow improvements, like stated in the examples. Not to mention that these examples are implemented for years in others DAWs ..
I dont want to disrespect devs, just see this as build critisism.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:46 AM   #5
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Perhaps I'm alone on this, but my only real desire for Reaper 5 is that they fix as many of the bugs as they can.

I'm fairly indifferent to your "most asked for" FRs because at least one feature that would be central to my workflow remains broken in both v4 and v5pre20:

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5184
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:49 AM   #6
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@syntaxed2: Sorry, but I don't think you add credibility to your case by asserting that REAPER 5 does not contain any useful features at all (emphasis mine).

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:08 AM   #7
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There are some good updates in 5 for sure, but it is definitely lacking any wow features, some may argue that Reaper gets new features added on a regular basis but honestly if it isn't time for a tidy up of old features (at least reainsert has had a workover) then it really is tome to start knocking off some of the most asked for requests.
yes we all know the devs do what they want, but it is still a commercial enterprise, and like it or not, reaper is no longer the miles ahead leader in cost/features/stability that it once was.
Time stands still for no one.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
There are some good updates in 5 for sure, but it is definitely lacking any wow features
You're right, but to be honest i haven't seen any wow features in other daws for a long time as well. Everyone trying to reinvent a wheel.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Honestly....the folks here should be shown a bit more respect for what "they" are doing.
Just sayin
Since it has been openly admitted that 'they' work ans decide as such there's no issue with respect here. Reaper is a great tool and the geeks and tweakers can have all the fun they like.

Meanwhile for the 'straight up' mixers and/or recording folks out here there's quite a bot of basic stuff that is either missing or half done and then abandoned since the devs lost interest (it would seem).

I miss a number of option which fit right in to my preferred workflow and this will probably mean I will have to move on once my workload picks up so much I need to make that choice.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:23 AM   #10
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Unfortunately reaper is great if it does what you want now. If its missing features you need, not so much.
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:41 AM   #11
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Reaper is not a DAW, its Environment.

Missing certain feature? Make it yourself choosing from a lot of development tools provided.

If its difficult to you, well, forget it or Reaper is not for you then. Move on to other DAW on the market - there are a lof to choose from now!

R5 added a lot of stuff for development your own stuff even more further.

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Old 03-22-2015, 04:44 AM   #12
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wtf are you talking about? It IS a DAW and one cannot simply add any feature they choose. If so, show me how to do this and I'll retract my statement.
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=5543
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:46 AM   #13
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Im just telling that most of R5 features aims to improve development side of Reaper (which is ok for me btw)
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
...

I miss a number of option which fit right in to my preferred workflow and this will probably mean I will have to move on once my workload picks up so much I need to make that choice.
... and then argue on that other DAWs forum that they should do enhancements for your workflow?

good luck with that ...

maybe its your workflow that you have to adjust always - at least a bit - when using a tool that was not tailored for your special needs. and I doubt you want to pay for that special tailored DAW.

what is the problem with your "workflow"? arent you able to adjust? would you expect an office suite made adjusted to you or do you use an office suite as is and adjust to that?

it seems to me that some people are talking about "workflow" but mean "habit" and "convenience for me here and now".

sorry ... but I cant really follow that self-evident demanding thinking ...
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Old 03-22-2015, 04:49 AM   #15
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Wow..

For me it has added some wow features (item envelopes for item fx was massive for me) already and I'm sure there's more to come including maybe some on your list.

Of course, I'd love more and more and more but who wouldn't

That's all I'm saying on the matter
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Old 03-22-2015, 07:19 AM   #16
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The midi clock works tight now, that´s a revolution for me!
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
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The midi clock works tight now, that´s a revolution for me!
There was no release note around that ....
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:33 AM   #18
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$60 / unlimited license that is obviously abused by 95% of downloaders / GIGANTIC feature set considering size of program / amazing online community / customizability

and you STILL need to complain?

There are some big FRs on the tracker and Justin & co are clearly getting around to some of them. They are starting with VCA request atm. After that, maybe they'll do area selection or something else big like that, for V5. They've got a whole year, according to their pseudo-official schedule.

So relax, ffs.
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:44 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Mink99 View Post
There was no release note around that ....
Psst, don´t tell my slaves

Edit: I know this from other SW devs, if you don´t admit sth is broken, don´t mention when it has been fixed. There is the possibility i´ve fooled myself, all i know is it´s working now whereas it never did before.

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Old 03-22-2015, 09:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Of course, I'd love more and more and more but who wouldn't
Rotfl, Reaper in a nutshell ...
(no personal offense meant of course !)
Embarrassing outing - that "who" is me, totally.
I'm a big fan of things done right, with great care going into seemingly small details. A perfect UI (read user interaction concept and -interface) always starts from the essentials and adds more specialized, details on top, but never lets diversification compromise basic functionality.

Obvious example :
Key command focus being stolen by subwindows - certainly handy for a few programmers, but absolute nonsense for everyday DAW use.
To add insult to injury, this cannot be changed (yes, there are workarounds, some better, others not so much, but nothing beats just having plain keys available for DAW control for many (most ?) people).
So if you could only have one, the obvious choice would be "no stealing", better would be a global preference to choose your favourite behaviour.

And these things do matter big time, they can make or break a program the more you depend on fast and efficient workflow.
But optimizing workflow, squashing bugs and creating a sensible hierarchy for UI functions (ever wondered why the channel fader is bigger than the pan ?) might be less fun than implementing a new remote control protocol which, combined with the right DIY hardware, some handburnt EPROMs and custom scripts (yet to be written by users) could enable you to flush your toilet in case you forgot, everywhere in the world, directly from your DAW.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of options and configurability, but once set up I only want to see them in the rare case I choose to change something, not during actual work, and the better ones are DAW centric imho.

Regarding the OP, I feel quite the same about R5 in its current state, but with a completely different "needed features" list, mainly streamlining audio related workflow, key focus and better generic controller integration in my case, plus meticulous bugfixing of course.
Obviously this diversity of dissatisfaction from very different user groups should not trick the devs into reevaluating priorities, what do users know after all ...

ymmv,
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
and you STILL need to complain?.
... without referring to any individual "complainer" :

there are those that rate (negative) customer feedback as one of the biggest assets any company can have.
Far better than customers quietly jumping ship ...
Nothing to do with price or features of a product by any means.

just saying,
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Wow..

For me it has added some wow features (item envelopes for item fx was massive for me) already and I'm sure there's more to come including maybe some on your list.

Of course, I'd love more and more and more but who wouldn't

That's all I'm saying on the matter
Wow! Item FX Envelopes! Didn't knew about it...finally!
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxed2 View Post
I might be a complete dolt here but I just cannot find any useful features in the 5PRE versions so far...

I am looking for:
1. Non-destructive glue
2. Media browser preset drag&drop support for vsts/FX Chains (take a look at Studio1 for wonderful implementation)
3. Container Item for envelopes/automation (fruity loops style)
4. time&range/signature lanes customization
5. Region markers, signatures, markers - customization of all visual elements
6. FX window customization
1. Group Items works exacly that way, would you like it to look like one item never cutted?
2. I'm not shure if I understand it wright, but drag&drop for vst and fx chains works that way in Reaper.
3. I believe you are looking for "show all visible track envelopes in media lane".
4. you have to write something more, because I really don't know what you mean
5. There are Regions, there are markers, you can signature both of them, again, not shure what you're asking.
6. what kind of customisation more than placing it where you like it, creating your own folders, own favourites, own fx chains, would you like?
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulheu View Post
Meanwhile for the 'straight up' mixers and/or recording folks out here there's quite a bot of basic stuff that is either missing or half done and then abandoned since the devs lost interest (it would seem).
What kind of stuff are you missing? I'm curious as an recording/mixing engineer :-)
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junke View Post
The midi clock works tight now, that´s a revolution for me!
How can you call the MIDI clock "tight", while REAPER still can't handle real-time tempo changes? Never mind that REAPER can't even be a 'slave' to a MIDI clock at all.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfRhino View Post
Obvious example :
Key command focus being stolen by subwindows - certainly handy for a few programmers, but absolute nonsense for everyday DAW use.
To add insult to injury, this cannot be changed (yes, there are workarounds, some better, others not so much, but nothing beats just having plain keys available for DAW control for many (most ?) people).
So if you could only have one, the obvious choice would be "no stealing", better would be a global preference to choose your favourite behavior.
This has always been my biggest beef with Reaper. I've made my peace with the issue (as it seems it's "just the way Reaper is"), but window focusing issues continue to bite me while I'm working. Nothing worse than pressing the spacebar - the universally accepted play key for DAW's and NLE's - and hearing the mac "Bonk" sound because the Project Bay, Media Explorer or Layout windows have focus.

I've mapped the basic transport commands to my midi controller, but there's years of hardcore "spacebar" conditioning working against me. This simply does not happen with Logic, Ableton, Studio One, etc.

If the window stealing and focusing issues could be fixed, I'd do backflips down the street...

tg
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:51 AM   #27
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Peanut Gallery:

There is an obvious cost / performance ratio with Reaper that tilts way toward the positive when one views it objectively, which is hard for some on either side of this recurring discussion to do, view it objectively.

You'll probably never get as much for so little money anywhere. That's a given, and anyone who can't see that is either not looking hard enough or has a severe bias. Having said that... what I personally perceive as a clear and very obvious literal truth...

... the other part(s) is where the end user conflict usually lives, and I'll explain.

On the one hand it's a great thing to have a small dedicated development team who works on a product and whether they always listen to the user base or not, they're always doing something. But with that comes some obvious drawbacks that some just can't seem to accept.

A small team with no corporate backing or financing can only do so much, which is why (imo) the Reaper team appears to largely focus on regular smaller useful enhancements, rarely any really large feature changes. [Edit: Obviously LUA is big, but not to the average Joe user who doesn't code LUA.] Given who and what they are, the strategy is good imo. Otherwise, in the other case, this would be about the stage where they'd be looking to update the entire overall design, or large parts of it like reworking the automation system, not just patch more stuff into it.

It also appears to be the case that with features they share in common with some of those other products, the other general designs are usually done better and require much less patching or changing.

It's up to us as users to accept that this isn't Steinberg (faults aside) with Yammy's R&D money who can drop larger and well designed (to a point) big features yearly. Once I accepted that reality it all doesn't matter so much.

I do agree with the OP in one regard, so far v5 has fed the developer types a big bacon cheeseburger.

(edits are Ipad typos)

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Old 03-22-2015, 11:56 AM   #28
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Banned - you got me curious.
What DAW currently out there DOES synch to MIDI as a slave?

This was always one of my big moans when I was on a pair of Fostex hard disk recorders and Bars n Pipes Pro.
Could only ever synch on way round.

I never really pursued it, as my lovely A&H automated desk died, so I went fully ITB with Sonar and than Reaper.
But It would b interesting to know if any current DAW can manage this without all the secret handshakes, arcane chants and wrestling of greasy goats to get there.
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcin Szwajcer View Post
1. Group Items works exacly that way, would you like it to look like one item never cutted?
Nearly, but not quite most editing things like adjusting the edges, time stretching etc still affect and treat all grouped items individually so that a time stretch on the edge of the furthest right item in the group doesn't act as if you were stretching one big item, instead, all items get stretched individually.

If we had this stuff sorted it would be awesome!
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Nearly, but not quite most editing things like adjusting the edges, time stretching etc still affect and treat all grouped items individually so that a time stretch on the edge of the furthest right item in the group doesn't act as if you were stretching one big item, instead, all items get stretched individually.

If we had this stuff sorted it would be awesome!
heh, I never needed that as I'm mixing engineer, but I can imagine it would be really usefull for producers.
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:21 PM   #31
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REAPER is a DAW
http://reaper.fm/about.php

and the title of reaper.fm homepage says "REAPER | Audio production without limits" yeah.. no limits.

One thing I really miss constantly is instantiated FX. meaning any change in a plugin parameter in one track is also reflected in another track. It would be like pooling plugins. I think it should be easy to implement. And would be great.
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
Wow! Item FX Envelopes! Didn't knew about it...finally!
Not just envelopes but also MIDI learn and control surface learn capability. That's one of the main reasons that I just can't accept the OP is being reasonable in asserting that R5 contains nothing new that's of any use.
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:56 PM   #33
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Reaper is also missing a standard midiclock and sync for midiout...
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:00 PM   #34
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Quote:
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heh, I never needed that as I'm mixing engineer, but I can imagine it would be really usefull for producers.
It's the kind of thing though that can be useful if you ever have to edit drums (not that any one should have to)

The way protools does it with edit groups for items is quite useful as it allows you to treat the whole set of items as one piece.

This kind of thing below, imagine that ungrouped these items don't even have to be touching/contiguous each other to act like one big item

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Old 03-22-2015, 02:03 PM   #35
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Banned - you got me curious.
What DAW currently out there DOES synch to MIDI as a slave?
Funny that you ask about the part of which I've said "never mind" and ignore my main point completely. Can you mention *any* MIDI sequencer that is not capable of changing tempo in real-time? Because I certainly can't. Leaving me to conclude that REAPER has been programmed *exceptionally* poorly in this respect.

Also, why qualify this to question to a "DAW", rather than a "MIDI sequencer"?

But to answer your question: I have no complete overview of the capabilities of all the various products out there. I do know that many so-called "DAWs" can't do this nowadays (e.g. Logic has given up on this feature a long while ago, and I guess the same goes for Cubase). But I also know that pretty much every single MIDI sequencer application I use can sync to MIDI Clock: Five12 Numerology Pro, Ableton Live, Plogue Bidule, to name a few. And pretty much all the custom built sequencers thingies in Pure data, Max/MSP, Reaktor, etc. Oh, and *all* the hardware MIDI sequencers I have ever seen, of course.
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steki View Post
Reaper is also missing a standard midiclock and sync for midiout...
Nonsense.

Preferences > Audio > MIDI Devices > MIDI outputs ... > [ ] Send clock/SPP to this device.

Please do your homework before you start to bitch about missing features.
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
..also track controls...
Nicholas you make me feel with this comment I've missed out on something?

Do you mean a link between items and parameter controls on a track or do you mean midi assignable controllers to item fx?

I'm just curious that I'm missing out!
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Old 03-22-2015, 02:28 PM   #38
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" Originally Posted by Junke View Post
The midi clock .............

Mink99: There was no release note around that .... "

That´s not really true.
The longstanding SPP error along with the Midi-Clock as master is fixed

+ MIDI SPP: fixed SPP sending with project measure offsets at t=0, send SPP when stopped/seeking to t=0
+ MIDI SPP: improved position rounding
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Nicholas you make me feel with this comment I've missed out on something?
Sorry, I was confused :

Item FX parameters can indeed be assigned to MIDI Learn, but not have track controls added to the TCP. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:38 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
Not just envelopes but also track controls, parameter modulation and and control surface learn capability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
Sorry, I was confused :

Item FX parameters can indeed be assigned to MIDI Learn, but not have track controls added to the TCP. Thanks for pointing it out.
And Parameter Modulation isn't possible, either.

Also, in order to prevent confusion: we don't have "Item FX", we have "Take FX".

Imho "control surface learn capability" is almost useless without feedback nor support for high resolution. And since we still can't control them using the OSC Control Surface feature, I don't see how to work around those limitations. All in all, I honestly can't be enthusiastic about Take FX envelopes, as I really don't want to use multiple instances of the very same plug-ins (which in some cases isn't even an option; e.g. with UAD-2 plug-ins) only to have a few different envelopes, and/or envelopes that can be easily moved around. It's just wasting resources in order to work around REAPER's extremely limited automation editing features. "Automation items" would be *much* more interesting to me.
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