Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Pre-Release Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2014, 09:30 PM   #1
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default As of 461pre6 the timeline is totally broken :( Please revert or make this optional

+ Timeline: different markings to distinguish between different beat divisions
+ Timeline: tweaks to text drawing logic (increase likelihood of labeling divisions that the user wants to see)

When zooming I want to see the same thing closer or farther away. Now when zooming, the thing I'm looking at changes entirely.

99+% of music works in patterns of 4, 8, 16, 32 bars etc. Having the elegant "rules" of music take a back seat to some weird logic of showing irrelevant divisions such as 3 or 5 bars starting on totally arbitrary positions that change at every zoom level is completely unusable for music.

Regardless of the zoom, major timeline points (every 4, 8, 16, 32 bars) should remain constant. This allows a consistent reference. This is how the grid in every DAW has always worked (including Reaper before 461pre6) and always should.

EXAMPLES

Notice how regardless of the zoom, because the loop starts at a musically relevant position it remains at a major timeline point this stays consistent at every scale, and always the same intervals of 4, 8, or 16. This is desirable.

(note: the reason the grid numbers are a bit strange is the timeline started at -5 in this example.)



This however is completely broken. When zooming instead of showing 4, 8, 16 divisions it jumps all over the place. Bar 22 to 25, or 21 to 27? Why would I want to see those numbers when working on my 16 bar loop?

Also notice how my loop points which are between bars 17 and 33 (major musical divisions) appear to be in the middle of nowhere when the zoom changes. This means if I now want to view my loop between the major grid divisions it was created on, it only works at one zoom level.





Another example:

When zooming, the primary grid numbers stay the same, and when scrolling the grid numbers stay the same. Perfect!




Now when zooming the numbers change, and when scrolling the numbers change as well. This is confusing and not at all helpful.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post

On the other hand, when I zoom out, then I get numbers like
1-4-7-10-..., or 1-6-11-16-...
where I would much prefer
1-5-9-13-..., or 1-9-17-23-...
but maybe I am just too fixated to 4 and 8 measure divisions?
The reason we are fixated on 4 and 8 bar measures is because that is the natural structure of music!

The current change if applied to the piano roll would place the keys on different frequencies at every zoom level.

"Nah, that's not an A key anymore, it now represents 491.6Hz."

And the note you actually played is now floating in lala land in some random place on the piano roll...
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6

Last edited by PitchSlap; 03-15-2014 at 09:44 PM.
PitchSlap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2014, 09:48 PM   #2
Viente
Human being with feelings
 
Viente's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,972
Default

Totally agreed here. The idea is great but please fix the issues.

Last edited by Viente; 03-15-2014 at 09:53 PM.
Viente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 03:32 AM   #3
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

I'm sure they will get it right don't want it reverted though, I'm just waiting for the next few builds till they perfect the ultimate time line

No need to revert!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 04:29 AM   #4
PitchSlap
Human being with feelings
 
PitchSlap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
I'm sure they will get it right don't want it reverted though, I'm just waiting for the next few builds till they perfect the ultimate time line

No need to revert!
Yes, understandably in pre-releases sometimes we take a step back to take two steps forward. This is probably the case here too, but the obvious negative aspects have completely prevented me from seeing the intended improvement(s).

I think the LICEcap examples make it clear why the changes are troublesome, so hopefully the issues can be addressed in a future pre. But if not, this needs to be optional because I think a lot of users would prefer a simple timeline over something quite confusing that sacrifices elegance and the primary requirements of a timeline (consistency at all levels of scale with common sense divisions that are musically relevant) by trying to be too clever and reinventing the wheel...


If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just add swing, and call it a day.
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6

Last edited by PitchSlap; 03-16-2014 at 04:40 AM.
PitchSlap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 07:08 AM   #5
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

I hear you. I reported those errors too and Schwa knows about them. I don't think they are intended and I'm sure it will get worked out. If they make it so it shows the expected/normal positions then it will be a big improvement anyway

I've always hated that part of it.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.