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Old 03-31-2014, 03:41 AM   #41
Evan
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Thanks for the ruler zoom. I agree that the zoom should be reversed (downwards drag = zoom in).

Can the accuracy be improved? For example, if I click and drag over measure "10", I can move the mouse right and left and the arrange view scrolls with it (great). But with some zooming in and out, the mouse pointer is no longer at the 10th measure position. I've lost the original position I clicked on. I can easily go several hundred measures away from my original click point, just by dragging up and down.

I think that the mouse should hold to the original position, until the button is released.

Another point concerning accuracy: in other hosts you click+drag on the timeline ruler for zooming (not above it). So you can be a little more accurate on the zooming point. Perhaps it's not simple to do in Reaper, maybe we can:

- have a faint vertical guideline when zooming?
- have a faint vertical guideline also when hovering the mouse on the zoom area and/or the ruler?

[EDIT]
One more thing, the area above the timeline is limited, especially if Reaper is maximized on the screen. Perhaps the zoom percentage should be higher when dragging upwards and above the ruler?
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I also think drawing the full line then bar number to the right of that line is confusing and should not be happening.

Compare rulers from different DAWs:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=29

Only Pyramix has the full line (but an interesting way of contrasting the beats vs bars numbers), others don't.
agree 100%
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by gofer View Post
+1 for separate font sizes for measures vs any other division.
+2. I guess I like the looks of Tracktions ruler best. Pyramix nice too. Agree with the quote about bolding the text.

Last edited by FnA; 03-31-2014 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:38 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
I think that the mouse should hold to the original position, until the button is released.
Yes, agreed. Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post
[...] One more thing, the area above the timeline is limited, especially if Reaper is maximized on the screen. Perhaps the zoom percentage should be higher when dragging upwards and above the ruler?
[OT] For similar reasons, one aspect that I really hate about the UI design of Ableton Live - now being copied by Bitwig as well - is that it all 'device' parameter controls are always crammed in a tiny strip at the bottom of the window (and the pointer only responds to up/down). It often takes several click-drags to get where you want. To add insult to injury: its 'native devices' can't have floating windows. Imho, it makes absolutely no sense to restrict user interaction like that, *especially* if it's intended for live use on stage. At best, it prevents 'information overload' by artificially limiting the amount of controls you can see on screen simultaneously. But in practice, it feels to me like looking at your cockpit through a keyhole. :-/
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:21 AM   #45
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This is my take on the current ruler direction. This is with the grid set to 16ths.

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Old 03-31-2014, 08:35 AM   #46
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Nice !
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:42 AM   #47
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Tod, the only problem with your mockup is that we don't always see the measure number, which is very important...
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:46 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan View Post

I think that the mouse should hold to the original position, until the button is released.
+1
I would like this option as well.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
Tod, the only problem with your mockup is that we don't always see the measure number, which is very important...
Well, that's why you also have it written in the transport...
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:35 AM   #50
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I think Cockos just has a natural aversion to mousewheeling or something. That vertical drag on the ruler thing .. Dragging upward works fine until you hit the top of the window and then you move down .. drag it up again .. and move down and drag it up again .. and ..
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Well, that's why you also have it written in the transport...
I can zoom in on an area totally different where the play cursor currently is, so the numbers in the transport are not of much help then.
Besides my transport is docked at the bottom, constantly having to look down there to see where I am is quite impractical.

I agree with swiiscompos here.

Last edited by nofish; 03-31-2014 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triode View Post
v4.62pre4 - March 29 2014
+ MIDI editor: fixed behavior when using one editor per project [t=137200]
Can you be specific about this?

I like the zooming feature. When I hit the upper screen border with the cursor, Reaper stops zooming because the cursor cannot be moved higher. It should rather depend on mouse movement (physical) than cursor movement (which you see on screen).
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:49 AM   #53
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theres something funny about this drag on ruler zoom. I''l try to describe but it doesn't work the same way in both directions.

When you're up against 1.1 on the left and you drag down, the view collapses horizontally, but 1.1 stays in view. Then drag up. 1.1 now slides away out of sight to the left. This means when you are zooming out but you zoom too far and want to pull it back your focal point can slide out of sight on the left then you have to scroll to pull it back into view. It's a nuisance.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:17 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
Tod, the only problem with your mockup is that we don't always see the measure number, which is very important...
Okay, I can agree with you, so maybe something like this?



I'm not saying what I show here is great or even good, but I think it's much better than the way it is now.

I hate to say it, but I think the way it is now would be very difficult to work with.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:20 AM   #55
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That works for me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, I can agree with you, so maybe something like this?



I'm not saying what I show here is great or even good, but I think it's much better than the way it is now.

I hate to say it, but I think the way it is now would be very difficult to work with.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:26 AM   #56
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Worked with this pre for whole day
So my opinion is "anchor point" of ruler drag zoom should be the same until button is hold. It means i will zoom in and out at exactly the same place from where i start. I found myself completely lost for few times becuase of this issue. And screen limits not good as well. Still great feature!

IMHO
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:14 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
Worked with this pre for whole day
So my opinion is "anchor point" of ruler drag zoom should be the same until button is hold. It means i will zoom in and out at exactly the same place from where i start. I found myself completely lost for few times becuase of this issue. And screen limits not good as well. Still great feature!

IMHO
As an option for sure but I've got use to the Nuendo "ongoing anchor point" way (like it is now) and like that but both are valid
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:16 AM   #58
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As an option for sure but I've got use to the Nuendo "ongoing anchor point" way (like it is now) and like that but both are valid
Maybe i just neet to get used to it Just telling my experience during today session
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:02 PM   #59
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As an option for sure but I've got use to the Nuendo "ongoing anchor point" way (like it is now) and like that but both are valid
I've thought about that "anchor point" thing too and actually I'm not yet sure which I'd prefer.
Imo both have advantages:

The "ongoing anchor pont" allows for "corrections" while still zooming in, the "fixed anchor point" allows for very quickly zooming a fixed position without loosing track sideways.

Conclusion:
Yeah, optional or even better maybe handled by mouse modifier.

@ Tod:
I think your new mockup would work for me also.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:20 PM   #60
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I agree there ^

Mouse modifier seems a good idea as both can be useful.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:15 PM   #61
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...which is what I said right away.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Okay, I can agree with you, so maybe something like this?



I'm not saying what I show here is great or even good, but I think it's much better than the way it is now.

I hate to say it, but I think the way it is now would be very difficult to work with.
I like this version!
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:03 PM   #63
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+1 for separate font sizes for measures vs any other division.
+1 too, and separate font color too would be nice... walterable.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:36 PM   #64
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OK so help me here:

I'm a bit confused about the drag to zoom and why it is a great thing...

when I drag up or down, I zoom in or out horizontally.

but I can already do that with the mouse wheel and actually even better since it can keep the edit cursor as the center of the zoom.

So what am I not understanding???

Now what I'd love to see changed, is either using that up\down drag to zoom the vertical OR having a MW mod key to zoom vertically....

sure... I can go the TCP panel and drag the vert. size bigger, but if we are aimed at slick and faster ways, I'd like the MW+mod to do vert. zoom.

Now to be more clear... I can use the vert zoom actions with the MW... BUT [and IMO it's a BIG BUTT] I can't find a way to just run the MW in both directions and have the vert zoom respond accordingly.

You?
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:38 PM   #65
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So what am I not understanding???
Probably that some of us use mousewheel for scrolling...
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:45 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triode View Post
v4.62pre4 - March 29 2014
+ Ruler: optionally drag vertically to adjust arrange view zoom
Great, but what is needed also is an option to automatically move the edit cursor to that zoomed spot! Like Hopi mentions, there's no advantage if the cursor doesn't move to the zoomed spot and get the center of view.

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Old 03-31-2014, 10:51 PM   #67
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Default Timeline inconsistency

Devs.., it would be nice if this timeline inconsistency could be fixed.
In this pic you can see that the arrange view and MIDI editor timelines don't show the same numbers. We should also be able to have time/frame/samples based views on the MIDI editors timeline.



Thanks
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:36 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viente View Post
Probably that some of us use mousewheel for scrolling...
ah I see... I use drag horizontal on the ruler for scrolling...

so it goes... guess the dev's can't please everyone
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:50 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krahosk View Post
what is needed also is an option to automatically move the edit cursor to that zoomed spot! Like Hopi mentions, there's no advantage if the cursor doesn't move to the zoomed spot and get the center of view.
SWS drag zoom options already does it, that's their default behavior.
Check out => menu => extensions => zoom preferences => drag zoom


BTW, I would change intuitively the native behavior: drag upwards to unzoom instead of zoom in. So I agree, options and improvement are needed.

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Old 04-01-2014, 02:42 AM   #70
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Great, but what is needed also is an option to automatically move the edit cursor to that zoomed spot! Like Hopi mentions, there's no advantage if the cursor doesn't move to the zoomed spot and get the center of view.
absolutely! It should follow option "Horizontal zoom center".Right now it's like having it on "Mouse cursor"
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:10 AM   #71
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Further remarks on the timeline zoom:

1) What if the mouse cursor remained stationary while dragging up/down? That would resolve the problem of "not enough screen space when dragging upwards".

2) Definitely add timeline zoom to the MIDI editor as well!
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:50 AM   #72
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Quote:
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Further remarks on the timeline zoom:

1) What if the mouse cursor remained stationary while dragging up/down? That would resolve the problem of "not enough screen space when dragging upwards".

2) Definitely add timeline zoom to the MIDI editor as well!
1: My worry for this would be people with absolute input devices like the wacom where there is no more space at the top of the pen pad to keep scrolling out/upwards but this might not be a worry anyway with what you have suggested. Guess we can just see what the devs come up with

2: Absolutely and whilst we are there can we make it an option that the midi editor ruler/grid quantising can be set to same as the arrange as I find it hard to work with the loop points when it follows midi grid quantize, especially at say 64 grid size. Way more detail than needed
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by neilerua View Post
SWS drag zoom options already does it, that's their default behavior.
Check out => menu => extensions => zoom preferences => drag zoom


BTW, I would change intuitively the native behavior: drag upwards to unzoom instead of zoom in. So I agree, options and improvement are needed.
Je suis d'accord... So why the DEVS even bother doing this when SWS already does it... better?
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:45 AM   #74
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1: My worry for this would be people with absolute input devices like the wacom where there is no more space at the top of the pen pad to keep scrolling out/upwards but this might not be a worry anyway with what you have suggested. Guess we can just see what the devs come up with
How widespread are Wacom devices? I had one but ultimately got back to the trusty mouse.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:00 AM   #75
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How widespread are Wacom devices? I had one but ultimately got back to the trusty mouse.
good point but it's also for touchscreens that are also absolute devices

I know of at least 6 or 7 people who are regulars to post here that use wacoms and a few reaper users/colleagues of mine around these parts are too so it's a few of us

As for why I use them. Instantly my RSI went away and I don't get any pain except for in normal circumstances like using my wacom for 14 hours straight and even then it's gone the next day. For me, a mouse or track pad brings back pain within an hour and makes playing piano or guitar feel sluggish.
I also find they are far more accurate and fast for getting around the screen (in absolute mode anyway once you get use to it) and plus it allows me to have multiple touchscreens for mixer use etc around me but as soon as I hover over my wacom it jumps straight back to the relevant position on that screen which is awesome! I even have a second wacom attached with a touch screen on a adjustable arm so I can have a stand up station and for detailed use with Kyma. All in all, you might say, I love my wacoms!
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:07 AM   #76
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Je suis d'accord... So why the DEVS even bother doing this when SWS already does it... better?
Because SWS didn't have access enough to the right hooks in the API to get it to work fully and smoothly plus it's the kind of thing newcomers would use and most of them will probably not know about the amazing SWS extension. A lot of people I know who use reaper didn't at first for quite a while as most people never go near the forums (travesty I know)

oh yeah.. did I mention it also didn't work as well as the official one did with a wacom device! lol (again, not SWS's fault, API issues)
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:04 PM   #77
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On the subject of wacom tablets.., I too wish the devs would look into the issues with some of the UI elements freaking out when trying to make adjustments. These things can be awesome and extremely expressive controllers. What I do is set one of the buttons to lock mode so that when I click on an FX parameter it stays engaged without having to hold a button down. Plus some of the tablets let you set up multiple zones!

One really cool thing is to use it in conjunction with software like GlovePie.., with this combo you can program it to send OSC/MIDI or even key commands, plus you have so much control over the range\distance traveled to parameter value ratio that it's just ridiculouse. I don't even use my keyboards mod.wheel anymore and my Kenton controller with it's 16 faders has'nt seen use in years.

Just a little note; I've found that most vst/vstis' don't suffer from the erractic behavior that some of REAPER's UI elements do..., however if you do come across one that does, you can simply switch the plugins UI to the generic UI and everything will be cool.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:42 AM   #78
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^ totally!

Wish that rotary knobs in reaper could have the option to work well with absolute input devices like wacoms and touch screens. They are super erratic on them.

Melda and voxengo even have an option to make their rotary knobs work with them so reaper could too
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