Old 08-02-2011, 06:27 AM   #161
Khorus
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Hello all,

I found this thread by luck, googling about HUI protocol and such. I must say that I'm happy to have found you guys, I had this idea of re-purposing a controller a while ago! (Check out my posts on Gearslutz).

I wanted to snif the packets of a Pro Control and implement it like Indys did. Unfortunately, my unit was defective and I had to drop the project all along.

Later on, I found another good candidate for hacking around... The Mackie d8b. It might not look like much but this board is very similar to the C24 (New Model) and it's using RS232 to communicate to the computer, therefore a little easier to reverse-engineer.

Skip a few months, we've got a working prototype, I've posted a few YouTube videos if you guys want to see it.

Link right here-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC80OHUTWXA

Basically we had the same idea, we're programming a middleware that talks to Nuendo via LoopBe30 (some modern day MidiYoke really) and we're emulating 3 Mackie Controls. We had to fabricate our own special serial cable to communicate with the d8b as the pinouts are not standard DB25 RS232.

Our software is cross-platform compatible (we haven't checked it out on Macs yet).

I am a registered Steinberg developer and have access to the internal of Nuendo/Cubase (the famous Remote SDK). My initial goal was to write a DLL that would interface directly to Nuendo but I quickly realized that I was limiting myself to Cubase/Nuendo! I want to help Reaper's community too, I just love this software.

That's it for now, it's vacation period for me and my kids, we'll be back at it in a few weeks.

Cheers!

Marc Girard
www.marcgirard.com
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Old 08-24-2011, 11:41 AM   #162
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Default Back in business...

Long time, no see...

I have now got hold of a control24 unit again, timelimited though. :-). I've decided that so much work has been done that it would be a real waste if nothing good came out of it so... I'm back in business. :-)

I have started my work on splitting up my Cubase code and C24 code so I can make a generic midi to c24 application. Not only Cubase owners should be able to use this of course :-).
I have fixed some bugs, support for 10 bit fader level (0-1023), and I'm finished with the split and have a genericMidiMapper class ready to be configured. I have experimented with some ways of converting the c24 features to midi and I would be glad if I can have some opinions from you guys.

As I see it there are 2 different scenarios:

'Midi Data length matters' and 'Midi Data length doesn't matter'

In 'Midi Data length matters' the data length should be as small as possible. That I can accomplish by using KeyOn, KeyOff and PolyPressure messages. There are 485 buttons that can take four different states, (Off, On, BlinkSlow and BlinkFast) all in all 1940 different unique messages just to map the buttons. The way to map this with only KeyOn messages is to use the key value to select button category like 0 is 'Function Keys', 1 is 'Automation' and so on. Then use the Velocity value to choose the button and its state.
0 is first button in category, off
1 is first button in category, on
2 is first button in category, blinkslow
3 is first button in category, blinkfast
4 is second button in category, off
5 is second button in category, on
and so on...

So if the second category of buttons would be 'Transport' then 'Rew' is button 1, 'Fwd' is button 2, 'Stop' is button 3, 'Play' is button 4 and so on.
Then to make the 'Stop'-button to be full on the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 9 ((Stop on))

Then to make the 'Stop'-button to blinkFast the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 11 ((Stop blinkFast))

Then to make the 'Stop'-button to be off the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 8 ((Stop blinkFast))

This way all 1940 buttons can be individually addressed.



In 'Midi Data length does not matter' the data length doesn't need to be small so the easiest way is to use SysEx messages. Instead of 3 bytes the length will be at least 8 bytes (if I use the SysEx Realtime header). So in this case the packet could be:
F0 (SysEx header)
7F (Realtime Message ID)
00 (Channel. 7F = all channels)
2A (MessageType. Lets say that 2A defines buttons)
02 (Button category. The same as above)
03 (Buttonnumber in category)
02 (Button state. In this case 'blinkslow')
F7 (SysEx end of message)

Faders, leds, meters and scrollknobs will be handled much in the same way in the 2 scenarios...

So, when do Midi data length matter? If you want to use the controller with an ordinary midi cable to some hardware then data length is everything. On the other hand, if you will use the c24 to a DAW on a computer the data can be transferred through network or directly with a midi loopback driver and in such case the data length is not a problem.

To all of you who want to implement/use this in any way, What are your opinions about it? Which alternative would you choose?



/Indys
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:14 AM   #163
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Default Reaper surface

Downloaded the reaper_extension_sdk and checked out the source code for the BabyHUI. I was able to create an embryo for a surface that maps to my C24 application :-). It shows the four first chars of the tracknames in the c24 :-).

I'm not so familiar with C++ but I did understand it enough to modify already present code from the BabyHUI source. I have still to decide how the protocol should work but for now I'm using the 'Data length doesn't matter'-scenario where all of the messages is done with SysEx...

I just have to say that Reaper rocks when it comes to extensibility!

I'll keep you posted...

/Indys
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:15 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by indys View Post
Long time, no see...

I have now got hold of a control24 unit again, timelimited though. :-). I've decided that so much work has been done that it would be a real waste if nothing good came out of it so... I'm back in business. :-)

I have started my work on splitting up my Cubase code and C24 code so I can make a generic midi to c24 application. Not only Cubase owners should be able to use this of course :-).
I have fixed some bugs, support for 10 bit fader level (0-1023), and I'm finished with the split and have a genericMidiMapper class ready to be configured. I have experimented with some ways of converting the c24 features to midi and I would be glad if I can have some opinions from you guys.

As I see it there are 2 different scenarios:

'Midi Data length matters' and 'Midi Data length doesn't matter'

In 'Midi Data length matters' the data length should be as small as possible. That I can accomplish by using KeyOn, KeyOff and PolyPressure messages. There are 485 buttons that can take four different states, (Off, On, BlinkSlow and BlinkFast) all in all 1940 different unique messages just to map the buttons. The way to map this with only KeyOn messages is to use the key value to select button category like 0 is 'Function Keys', 1 is 'Automation' and so on. Then use the Velocity value to choose the button and its state.
0 is first button in category, off
1 is first button in category, on
2 is first button in category, blinkslow
3 is first button in category, blinkfast
4 is second button in category, off
5 is second button in category, on
and so on...

So if the second category of buttons would be 'Transport' then 'Rew' is button 1, 'Fwd' is button 2, 'Stop' is button 3, 'Play' is button 4 and so on.
Then to make the 'Stop'-button to be full on the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 9 ((Stop on))

Then to make the 'Stop'-button to blinkFast the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 11 ((Stop blinkFast))

Then to make the 'Stop'-button to be off the message would be:
144 (KeyOn, channel 0), 2 (category), 8 ((Stop blinkFast))

This way all 1940 buttons can be individually addressed.



In 'Midi Data length does not matter' the data length doesn't need to be small so the easiest way is to use SysEx messages. Instead of 3 bytes the length will be at least 8 bytes (if I use the SysEx Realtime header). So in this case the packet could be:
F0 (SysEx header)
7F (Realtime Message ID)
00 (Channel. 7F = all channels)
2A (MessageType. Lets say that 2A defines buttons)
02 (Button category. The same as above)
03 (Buttonnumber in category)
02 (Button state. In this case 'blinkslow')
F7 (SysEx end of message)

Faders, leds, meters and scrollknobs will be handled much in the same way in the 2 scenarios...

So, when do Midi data length matter? If you want to use the controller with an ordinary midi cable to some hardware then data length is everything. On the other hand, if you will use the c24 to a DAW on a computer the data can be transferred through network or directly with a midi loopback driver and in such case the data length is not a problem.

To all of you who want to implement/use this in any way, What are your opinions about it? Which alternative would you choose?



/Indys
Hi Indys,

Its good to see u back! in response to your question....my choice would include the hardware/MIDI cable option.... my interest is this. I have a HUI compatible Mackie D8b {talks MIDI}. And Reaper's HUI implementation is not finished. I see the track names in banks of 8 and solo ,pan,etc. and most transport already work..but as u know there is so much more.

Also in my limited experience , Sys Ex has that habit of not allowing any other message to come thru until that F7.

If I have misunderstood the final goal of this project..meaning it would only relate to users with C24s....plz forgive and ignore me^^

Guido

Am i correct in my assumption that the c24 is kinda based on the HUI Protocol?
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:45 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Hi Indys,

Its good to see u back! in response to your question....my choice would include the hardware/MIDI cable option.... my interest is this. I have a HUI compatible Mackie D8b {talks MIDI}. And Reaper's HUI implementation is not finished. I see the track names in banks of 8 and solo ,pan,etc. and most transport already work..but as u know there is so much more.

Also in my limited experience , Sys Ex has that habit of not allowing any other message to come thru until that F7.

If I have misunderstood the final goal of this project..meaning it would only relate to users with C24s....plz forgive and ignore me^^

Guido



Am i correct in my assumption that the c24 is kinda based on the HUI Protocol?
Hi Guido,

Actually no, the C24 protocol has midibased commands via ethernet, but the setup is completely different. I think that is because of the hardware. There is often bit shifting relations between the buttons and led which of course is so much easier to decode directly in hardware. The C24 is really a dumb terminal. If a led is to blink, my application needs to blink it!!!

I see your point about Sysex though. Maybe I should switch to the KeyOn, KeyOff, and PolyPressure idea.... or maybe do both ;-).

I'm also happy to announce that I got the Remote SDK from Steinberg yesterday. I tried that a year ago with no success, but this time I attached my proof-of-concept video and that maybe made the difference ;-). The remote SDK is of course C++ (not my primarily language) but from the little I have seen so far I think it could be doable even by me :-).


All the best/
Indys
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:08 PM   #166
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Hi,

Thanks for ur reply Indys. Oh well maybe someday for HUI. btw. I have a copy of that Logic doc about the Hui spec netnoggin talked about awhile back..If u need it let me know.

Guido
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Old 08-29-2011, 02:04 AM   #167
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Default Control24 <> Reaper

Hi again,

I did some tests with the c_surf template (reapers control surface API) just as a proof-of-concept towards reaper and as I mentioned before, I got the track names from reaper to be shown on the control24.

I have decided to focus my development on the generic midi mapper for the control 24 so I can publish a beta version shortly. As I primarily use Cubase I think I'll go on creating a remote dll from their RemoteSDK before I will put energy on the reaper implementation.

This means that to make this work with Reaper I would appreciate if someone took on the work of creating a customized c_surf class for the control 24 implementing the midi specs I'm about to decide about and release here in a short future.

Anyone with the skills intressed? (or intressed in getting the skills while trying :-)?)


I'm doing some job-related traveling (and a vaccation to Italy :-)) within a few weeks but I hope the specification could be released here some two weeks from now (or earlier if I get some time of).

This spec will be public and of course, if you want to implement it with some other application you are free to do so. Would be nice to know about it though :-)


We're getting close now :-)

All the best/

Indys
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:20 PM   #168
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I might be interested, especially if I can find a control|24 for the right price. Hit me up via email if you like, tim -at- standingwaterstudios -dot- com.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:46 PM   #169
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This spec will be public and of course, if you want to implement it with some other application you are free to do so. Would be nice to know about it though :-)
That's great to hear! I was still dubbing between the control 24 and pro control. Good to hear your still in the game. Makes the control24 very attractive for me (as I like Logic more then PT).
Enjoy your time in Italy!
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Old 09-10-2011, 07:34 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
That's great to hear! I was still dubbing between the control 24 and pro control. Good to hear your still in the game. Makes the control24 very attractive for me (as I like Logic more then PT).
Enjoy your time in Italy!
Thanx :-)

/Indys
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:20 PM   #171
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Default General Sysex spec released

Hi all,

Now I'm finished with the sysex specification. I have also named the application to 'Control24 DAWIER' :-)

This document covers the way the Control24 DAWIER can communicate with other DAWs like Cubase, Logic, Reaper and so on.
If you want to implement this into your favorite DAW in the future, don't hesitate to mess me here private if you don't understand the specification.
(I myself is planning to do a Cubase implementation with the remote SDK later on :-))

http://www.frastech.se/shared/c24/Co...eral sysex.pdf

Happy reading!

P.S. If someone have ideas to make the spec easier to implement or faster to execute then post your suggestions here. And yes, I know that decimal and hex values is inconsistently used in the document... I will fix this later. :-) D.S.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:20 AM   #172
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Default Update...

Back from a wonderful trip to Terracina, Italy, Good wheather, delicious food, espresso and not to forget the ice cream :-).

I'm on to the finishing touches on the Control24 to midi application. The communication seems stable, I have rewritten a lot of the code for memory and speed efficiency. I'm finished with the small copy protection and I'm about to shop for some specially designed USB-memory devices that can be used as a poor mans protection dongle. I have also stared the process of checking if selling this application could be illegal in any way. This part costs a lot of money for me, lawyers are not cheap, even when it just comes down to researching. But I need to get a professional opinion whether this application should fly or not.
This, and the fact that I've decided to ship custom USB-memory hardware makes it impossible for me to have a 'almost-giveaway' price. Those of you who have an investment limit under $150 might be disappointed...

I have not decided on the price yet. I can't do that until I know the details of every cost, but somewhere beetween $150 - $350 would be a good guess.

For those of you who think that's to much I'll just wanna say that I've spent numerous evenings, nights and weekends, using my analysis competens and programming skill to realize netnoggins initial idea: to bring the Control24 out of its cage. Now its about to come true (if I not get a no-go from the lawyer firm). It is not for free. I have spent real money on this. Att least I want them back (Break even). To those who do not understand this: You're welcome to do it yourself ;-)

:-)


My plan is to have a product that I can give a support and develop further in the future. A result of having a higher price is that it gives me more seriuos customers that I can support better. I rather have 500 good seriuos customers knowing what they paid for than have 20000 $20-customers screaming out in some supportforum because they did not check requirements or such. I believe further that a good paying customer gives better feature requests, as they tend to care more for the product.
My plan is trying to establish a good relation with the customers of this product and listen carefully to what they need. That takes time. Time is money. I'll think I rather have 50 good paying customers that makes me hit break even and I can give good support to, instead of just giving it away for basically nothing...

Beta testing will start within a month, I've selected 2 studios to do the first realtime tests. If that goes well the application might be for sale by the end of this year. Hang out there until then.

/Indys
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:09 AM   #173
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Will this work with Digi Command 8?
I was thinking of dumping it, but!
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Old 10-05-2011, 12:41 AM   #174
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Will this work with Digi Command 8?
I was thinking of dumping it, but!
No, at this point the only controller this application interacts with is the old Control 24.





There are some indications that the newer C24 might work as well but that is untested.





/Indys
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:45 AM   #175
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just a thought, do you suspect that for example the Procontrol would be similar in protocol (and perhaps even the same)?
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:58 PM   #176
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Yes, as they are built during the same era of Digidesign it is possible that the protocol is the same but it is untested. A quick look at some capture files will reveal a lot, but as I don'thave a pro control I can't dig into that.

/Indys
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:23 PM   #177
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Default Pro Tools 10 and beyond

I too stumbled on this thread through Google. I was looking for some hints as to the protocol used by the Control|24. We just found out that after Pro Tools 10 that the Control|24 (and alot of other things) will not be supported. We currently have two studios build with a Control|24 on an Argosy console, and frankly replacing the Control|24 would be VERY painful. So I thought, perhaps someone could build a box to translate between the Control|24 and EUCON which I assume will be supported by Digidesign (Avid) for some time.

Any information that could be made available concerning the Control|24 protocoal would be greatly appreciated. I work for a not-for-profit organization, and making a change to another control surface would represent a significant hardship.

Can anyone help?
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Old 11-03-2011, 08:31 AM   #178
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Hi there!

Just wanted to ask what the status of this project is.
(usin g C24 with cubase, reaper etc..)
How much is the software? Is there more information about it etc...

cheers!
martin
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:05 PM   #179
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Default Logic

I also stumbled on this thread from Google. I'm seriously interested in using my Control 24 with Logic. I'd pay.

Please let us know how the legal works out. If it doesn't, I hope you will consider open sourcing the project.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:11 AM   #180
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Default Not so good news

I'm sorry to say that my legal advisors do not recommend that I continue with a public release of the software. Allthough the reverse engineering part is not illegal nor the release of a software built to extend interoperability (layers did some research), Avid might probably sue anyway if they for some reason don't like the product or the idea that the Control24 should be used in another context than Protools. And that I can't afford... nor the money, time or the energy.

Despite this fact I have continued to develop the cubase implementation.
No midi! :-). I implemented tcp networking between cubase and DAWier. Very good performance and no need for virtual midi drivers like MidiYoke. Almost everything is ready except for automation and some known bugs or 'issues'. The reason that I still put time on this is mostly to get it finished so that all my effort was not completely in vain.

The only way I see that I can release this to the public is by getting a blessing from Avid. I will contact Avids europe division after the holidays and try to convince them to agree to let me release this. If not then this might be the end of the public discussion of this software and I will go on develop other things and DAWier will be for my personal use only.

Anyway I will let you know about Avids decision as soon as I have been in contact with them.

All the best
/Indys
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:21 PM   #181
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Default That's very sad..

indys/

it's very sad to hear that.
did Avid give you an answer? i PMed you by the way.

folks, is that still illegal to get the DAWier privately?
like we are hiring him as a developer and create a software for personal use. instead of selling it by him?

here in US, iphone jailbreak is not illegal as you might know.
i don't know if it could be the same or similar case or not though.

i could be wrong on any above, just let me know.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:19 AM   #182
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thats really a shame to hear! I would have loved to get a control24 and getting it to work with Logic. ProTools is still very cumbersome to me. As is the DAW controller market. The only nice thing about digidesign are their wonderful controllers. Its unbelievable that no company just looked at the digi controllers and designed something with very similar options and specs.
Only thing that is a nod in the good direction is the mackie hui. That unit was perfect if it could be extended with extra fader packs.
The possibility of buying a control24/c24/pro control and using it with any DAW of choice would be awesome and could actually turn into a winning product for Digidesign aswel. I hear these frustrations on the DAW control side for years (check Gearslutz for example, a lot of frustration topics over there). Opening up these control units from DD would be perfect for a much wider audience then DD might think.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:26 AM   #183
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folks, is that still illegal to get the DAWier privately?
like we are hiring him as a developer and create a software for personal use. instead of selling it by him?

here in US, iphone jailbreak is not illegal as you might know.
i don't know if it could be the same or similar case or not though.

i could be wrong on any above, just let me know.
Regarding the first, its probably not illegal as long as its not against specific rules. As its for the 'private domain' it seems legal to do so.

Jailbreaking might be a bit different as that involves creating an operating system to run on a specific device. This is reverse engineering the DD protocol and make a program that can communicate with a device.

Like Indys already stated, that might not be illegal at all. However, and I fully agree with him, there is always a possibility that Avid might not like this and just sues him for the sake of suing which will cost him a lot of time and money. He might even win such a case, but still, I can imagine that all that legal hassle is not worth it.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:58 AM   #184
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hi i know this is an old thread, but it seems a shame that it has gone so cold without resolution after so many years wtf, just because Indys was told by avid he couldn't make any money on this, which is to be expected really i mean come on the minute you mention getting paid for reverse engineering a company's work, your bound to piss off the corporation (doh) i know he invested alot of time and effort into this, but had he been passing the solution to others for free i seriously doubt avid would have bothered getting involved, if they have at all, and he has just realised he cant sell his code because he might get sued

Indys a message to you, if you ever see this, the only way this isn't a complete waste of everyones time (not just yours) is if you offer to help people for free, thats if you ever truly accomplished what you say you did, because i am starting to have serious doubts!!!!

anyway knowing absolutely nothing about code i would have thought eucon would have been the better option!!
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:32 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by TripWire
hi i know this is an old thread, but it seems a shame that it has gone so cold without resolution after so many years wtf, just because Indys was told by avid he couldn't make any money on this, which is to be expected really i mean come on the minute you mention getting paid for reverse engineering a company's work, your bound to piss off the corporation (doh) i know he invested alot of time and effort into this, but had he been passing the solution to others for free i seriously doubt avid would have bothered getting involved, if they have at all, and he has just realised he cant sell his code because he might get sued

Indys a message to you, if you ever see this, the only way this isn't a complete waste of everyones time (not just yours) is if you offer to help people for free, thats if you ever truly accomplished what you say you did, because i am starting to have serious doubts!!!!

anyway knowing absolutely nothing about code i would have thought eucon would have been the better option!!
Well, it likely wasn't a waste of time for Indys, he's probably enjoying the fruits of his labour as we speak

As far as your negative and skeptic comments about what he has or hasn't accomplished, I have a suggestion.

Why don't YOU provide US a solution for FREE, seems that's the way you roll.
You say you know nothing of code, hire a programmer at your expense and git 'er done
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Old 01-07-2013, 03:37 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by TripWire View Post
Indys a message to you, if you ever see this, the only way this isn't a complete waste of everyones time (not just yours) is if you offer to help people for free, thats if you ever truly accomplished what you say you did, because i am starting to have serious doubts!!!!

anyway knowing absolutely nothing about code i would have thought eucon would have been the better option!!
Hi Tripwire. I just happened to stop by here and read your post. I'll think you've summed up the situation pretty well, except for the part that you didn't think I accomplished what I have. I actually planned to release my product (I even bought some USB memory-sticks with custom logo) but I had to return the Control24 to the studio from where I borrowed it (btw, Thanks Lasse, for the time that you could spare it).
The problem is that I can't finish this work without hardware and for me that is not so much of a loss as I went into this really exiting problem only because of my own interest and belive me - I have learned tons of good things that I can use in my other profession (The one responsible to get me food on the table ) The curiosity and the ability to solve problems or in this case solve a chain of problems using code is one of the most valuable qualities in the field of development and I tend to take every chance I get to keep those qualities sharp and up to date.

The other thing that prevents me from finishing this off (in a hurry) is the fact that were going to have a child in the near future (our first - man, I'm I exited! ) and my sparetime will of course be greatly reduced.

I agree that eucon would be the best option and I tried to get the SDK for Eucon but, surprise: - Avid owns the eucon protocol and have not returned any of my 2 requests though they actively invite developers to get it on their website by filling in a request from. Maybe another proof that they are not interested in having their old end-of-life-controller compete with the controllers they are selling now...

All the best
/Indys
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:15 PM   #187
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Heh. I tried three times to get the EuCon protocol, no response, including leveraging some Avid contacts to put internal pressure on the Euphonix group. I gave up.

By the way, any amount of free time you think you might have after your kid is born, reduce that by about 10x and you'll be about right.

Take care,
Tim
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:00 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sws View Post

By the way, any amount of free time you think you might have after your kid is born, reduce that by about 10x and you'll be about right.

Take care,
Tim
I suspected just that :-)

/Indys
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:12 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sws View Post
By the way, any amount of free time you think you might have after your kid is born, reduce that by about 10x and you'll be about right.
I'm gonna face this "problem" in a few months too.
One solution I'm thinking of is dead simple: I just need 2 wives
(on-topic: .. but, like Indys, I have to double-check this idea with my legal advisor first!)
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:21 AM   #190
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As you may be aware, Avid is in deep problems and has even postponed filing Q4 results, resulting in the NASDAQ telling them that if they don't file very soon (May) they will be de-listed.

A new management team is in place and you may get a different response in a few weeks time. The future for all Avid's intellectual property is very much up in the air right now, which is probably why certain departments just have not been communicating with the outside world.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #191
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Hi everybody,

I worked under ProTools for 3 years with a C 24 but I switched to Reaper the last month. I'd like to know if someone goes back to this project.

I studied network and a little the C++ language so if I could help you, I'm here.

...And I'm French !

Thanks !
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Old 07-06-2013, 10:27 PM   #192
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Default Hi There!

Did you know How I came across this thread?
Because Control 24 is a Focusrite console. Im cruising the web searching for options for the studio and one of them is Control 28 from Focusrite.
A totally analog mixing console with some functions controlled by midi through a cat5 cable.

Am I wrong or there's a connection here? Even the analog specs of the new one are exactly the same as the Control 24 developed 14 years ago! Which might mean that the pre amps are the same. So, if AVID doesn't want to "help" maybe Focusrite will?...

Control24 user guide: http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...uide_25948.pdf
Control 2802 User Guide: http://d3se566zfvnmhf.cloudfront.net...alv1.4rev2.pdf

Control 2802 windows drivers: http://d3se566zfvnmhf.cloudfront.net...02windows1.zip

Before anything else i would like to ask a question, what you guys are discussing here is the ability to control mechanical moving parts of the Control 24, right? It doesn't mean that the analog part of the console don't work at all, right?
Because, if I can connect a Control 24 to an Antelope Orion interface.. Im gonna buy one on Ebay. I prefer the form factor (meter bridge etc) of this "90' look" console than the new ones. The only one on my pocket size is the Allen&Heath GSR24M $10k. You take a Focusrite control 2802 by $4k plus a 2 channel Valve pre amp by $3k and you still $2k lower than the A&H. You lose channel count and Wow factor. But I wanna save money! So to have a control 24 for $3k would be awesome! My biggest concern is the quality of the pre amps. Since I discover today that they just might be the same ones Focusrite does since the late 70's, I would love to have one. And I would love to have some feedback from you guys on this. Because, a mixing console it's much more than a MIDI controller for gods sake!
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:44 AM   #193
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Gentlemen,
I'm so glad that I found this post. I bought a Pro Control a few months ago and was always very p'ssed of to see that this item only runs its proprietary protocol. So I can't all the other DAWs that would work great with this.

I was thinking about a program that would act as a "protocol translator". It should generate virtual MIDI ports that fake a Mackie Control + the amount of connected Fader Packs in ProControl mode. For C24 it always would show up as a mackie control master unit and 2 Faderpacks.

There are so many similarities between these controllers. Finally you had decent metering (not this crippled Mackie Control solution where a meter is shown on the display and shares the space with the track name) and you had a fixed channel scribble pad.

I also wanted to use wireshark, because I read that this would be a good tool so sniff.out the protocol.

Now I heard that the C24 is generating MIDI Commands transmitted via Ethernet. Do is there a way to monitor them with a MIDI monitor like MIDIOX?
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:58 AM   #194
Technolife
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Hi guys,

Glad to hear i'm not alone.

Monitoring the ethernet connexion of the C24 is what Indys did (if I'm not wrong).

So it could be cool to have is work to not remake it but continue it...

I just saw that I was speaking about this console (and not the Control 24 at least) :

http://fr.audiofanzine.com/surface-d...igidesign/C24/


Have a nice day.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:02 PM   #195
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hey guys,

any news on this exciting project?
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:40 AM   #196
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YEah is there anything new? Someone answer plz:P
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Old 09-15-2014, 01:01 AM   #197
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Hi All,

I stumbled over this thread when looking for information about programming interfaces to older control surfaces to use them with Reaper (or other DAWs).

Anyone here who downloaded the files mentioned in this thread and willing to share them with me ?
Would be great and could help me to get me going faster.

Is there any knowledge how far Indys efforts were going ?
I tried to email him but my mail was rejected as spam.

Would be great if someone could help.

Thanks.
Matt
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Old 01-27-2015, 03:25 PM   #198
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*bump*
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Old 02-28-2015, 10:11 AM   #199
Frank Parra
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Default Control 24 driver

Hey guys, I know this has been silent for awhile, but if anyone knows how I can get my hands on some of the work that has been done please let me know.
I will be grateful. My Control 24 is gathering dust and I am eager to get it back into action. fgparra@verizon.net or Frank@rule62music.com

Thanks in advance.

fgparra@verizon.net
Frank@rule62music.com
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Old 06-14-2015, 02:38 AM   #200
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Hi,

Same here, i'll gladly take any work done before so i can start developing my own solution

Best regards !
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