|
|
|
04-23-2014, 10:39 AM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Remove audio parallell to VSTi (Solved)
I'm using the VSTi Modular Minihost from Image-Line. I can put as many VSTis and VSTs as I want in it and route audio and midi between them as I want. But I have found that Reaper sends audio parallell to this VSTi-plugin, but I need all audio to go through it. Is there a way I can solve this?
Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 06:31 AM.
|
|
|
04-23-2014, 12:25 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Boston
Posts: 548
|
Not familiar with Minihost yet (looks interesting), so just guessing. On the track running Minihost, sends and receives, make sure Master/Parent send is unchecked.
|
|
|
04-23-2014, 12:52 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Thanks for your reply!
Minihost Modular is absolutely interesting, but only exists as a beta version at this time and is still a little buggy.
It seems like the master/parent send option switches on/off audio to master AFTER it has passed the tracks FXs. So it also disables the sound from the VSTis output to master.
|
|
|
04-23-2014, 01:08 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 562
|
From my experience w/Reaper, any vsti that allows audio to enter will also pass the dry signal unfortunately. You'd need an effect version for it to be only heard thru the plugin.
I haven't tried the Image Line thing, don't know if they plan to release an effect version as well, (is there already one?)
__________________
Free Synthedit/Synthmaker plugins that I made: runbeerrun dot blogspot dot com
|
|
|
04-23-2014, 11:20 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunBeerRun
From my experience w/Reaper, any vsti that allows audio to enter will also pass the dry signal unfortunately. You'd need an effect version for it to be only heard thru the plugin.
I haven't tried the Image Line thing, don't know if they plan to release an effect version as well, (is there already one?)
|
Aha, thanks. There is no effect-version available at the moment, but they plan to make one because of this (this problem applies to some other software as well). But then I wonder if an effect version will be able to receive midi notes. I assume this is no problem since I recently had a problem with midinotes messing up how an effect worked.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 01:47 AM
|
#6
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
|
I thought that Modular Minihost had audio and MIDI inputs. Looking at the help page, anyway.
I tried the idea out using XT2 VSTi, with MIDI and audio on the Reaper track and a synth and FX inside XT2. If I drop the audio level inside XT2 I do not hear anything, so there is no dry signal in parallel with the FX.
Double-check that the Wet/Dry knob in the Modular Minihost FX window is set to 100% wet.
Or it may be that Modular Minihost is passing on the dry audio when it shouldn't.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 02:04 AM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
I thought that Modular Minihost had audio and MIDI inputs. Looking at the help page, anyway.
I tried the idea out using XT2 VSTi, with MIDI and audio on the Reaper track and a synth and FX inside XT2. If I drop the audio level inside XT2 I do not hear anything, so there is no dry signal in parallel with the FX.
Double-check that the Wet/Dry knob in the Modular Minihost FX window is set to 100% wet.
Or it may be that Modular Minihost is passing on the dry audio when it shouldn't.
|
Yes, Minihost modular has midi and audio in and out. It does not have a dry/wet knob. When I connect the input directly to the output and adjust the volume up and down inside minihost, the volume increases and decreases, but the sound does not disappear even if I disconnect the output from the input inside minihost. There is always some audio passing.
I don't think minihost passes dry signal because it seems to work in other daws.
Edit:
From the discussion about this on IL forums:
"NAS_ wrote:
I will repeat again, just for you
Reaper X64
renoise X64
Maschine X64
In fact any host but FLS always passes audio when loaded as an effect"
"IL Dan_wrote (developer):
I've found why. Basically Reaper has a different way of handling the VST whether it's a "synth" (VSTi) or "effect" (VST), whereas other hosts such as Ableton or FL don't care. In Reaper, the audio from a track is passed "in parallel" to the VSTi (so bypassing it), but also routed into it, a thing which I find weird tbh. Anyway, because of this, I made out of Minihost Modular a VST and a VSTi version, so problem solved. You'd use the VST (not VSTi as before) version in Reaper."
Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 02:09 AM.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 02:18 AM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
|
Sorry, I meant the Dry/Wet control in Reaper's FX chain window, above the FX GUI:
I've just read IL Dan's comments - I'll try with VST and VSTi versions later.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 02:54 AM
|
#9
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
|
OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.
When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.
So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.
XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 03:22 AM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.
When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.
So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.
XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.
|
Ok!
But in my case, the audio goes into minihost as it should and out again, but audio is also bypassed. It sounds like 50% goes each way.
I have checked the dry/wet-knob in Reaper and it was set to 100%.
Edit: Problem solved, see my latest post.
Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 06:30 AM.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 03:34 AM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.
When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.
So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.
XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.
|
Have a look at this if you have the time:
http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...m/Minihost.avi
Edit: Problem solved, see my latest post.
Last edited by osflaa; 04-25-2014 at 01:40 AM.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 06:29 AM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
I have found that IL have included a VST-version in the latest Minihost installer (I didn't know it was there because the installer did not place the VST-version in the VST-folders, I had to look it up in the installation folder). When I use this instead of the VSTi-version, it works fine with no audio bypassing it :-)
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 08:59 AM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,272
|
K, great!
Does this thing actually do anything that Reaper can't do on its own? I mean... a VST host with a bunch of routing options...
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 09:12 AM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt
K, great!
Does this thing actually do anything that Reaper can't do on its own? I mean... a VST host with a bunch of routing options...
|
Well, probably not. But it's very easy to make and understand even complex routing of audio, events and automation between VSTs. And you can see the actual signal flow (both audio, events and automation) so it's very easy to see if everythink works as it should. So I would say the visualization makes the workflow far better in some cases.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 09:52 AM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
|
Yes, it's MUCH easier to see what's going on (and make sure you've got it right )
The Reaper equivalent of the above:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/t2oVQv1.png
and you can package up complex combos of instruments and FX, and they appear as a simple plug-in to Reaper.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 04-24-2014 at 10:18 AM.
|
|
|
04-24-2014, 02:29 PM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
I have attached a picture that shows an example of how Minihost can be used. It has 1 midi event in (green) which goes parallell to 3 layered synths, 5 automation envelopes in (red) that goes to synths/effects and 1 audio out (yellow). The connections "pulses" when it flows a signal through it. You can adjust volume/mute directly on each connection.
This setup is only one FX in one track (with 5 automation envelopes) in Reaper.
http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...m/Minihost.jpg
Edit 1:
Minihost has many similarities to Patcher, a native plugin in FL Studio. If you have the creative and technical skills (and time), you can use it to make plugins out of other plugins. Plugins such as XY-controller, Peak controller, Formula controller etc give a lot of opportunities. In the attached example, one IL forum member has made a Transient shaper plugin out of a bunch of other plugins (and believe it or not, it works very well). One picture shows the operation panel, the other shows the plugins and connections behind.
http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...er_surface.jpg
http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...atcher_map.jpg
Edit 2:
Also, in Minihost you can place piano rolls whereever you want in the midi event paths. You can then, by recording or drawing with the mouse, create complex arpeggios or loops you want specific synths/samplers to play just by pressing one note. Also you can make graph modules which lets you make sub maps, represented as one plugin in the top level map.
Last edited by osflaa; 04-25-2014 at 01:41 AM.
|
|
|
04-25-2014, 03:45 AM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
|
Out of interest, what VST(i) parameters does Minihost publish to Reaper?
-- all the parameters of the included plug-ins?
-- an assignable subset of those parameters?
-- real names or arbitrary names?
-- or ... ?
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
|
|
|
04-25-2014, 04:31 AM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 376
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
Out of interest, what VST(i) parameters does Minihost publish to Reaper?
-- all the parameters of the included plug-ins?
-- an assignable subset of those parameters?
-- real names or arbitrary names?
-- or ... ?
|
It does not publish any parameter before you add an input/output node. The red nodes (have a look at the picture in my previous post) are automation nodes and the green nodes are event nodes.
- If you choose to add a event node, you give it a name and select hardware I/O 1-30.
- If you select automation node, you give it a name, select I/O-type midi or automation. If midi, then you select midi channel 1-16 and controller CC 0-127. If automation, then you select parameter 0-199.
The plugin parameter name will not be visible in Reaper (I think) because every parameter in Minihost can control as many plugin parameters as you want.
But I'm new to this plugin so I have not tested all this.
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:06 AM.
|