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Old 04-23-2014, 10:39 AM   #1
osflaa
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Default Remove audio parallell to VSTi (Solved)

I'm using the VSTi Modular Minihost from Image-Line. I can put as many VSTis and VSTs as I want in it and route audio and midi between them as I want. But I have found that Reaper sends audio parallell to this VSTi-plugin, but I need all audio to go through it. Is there a way I can solve this?

Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:25 PM   #2
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Not familiar with Minihost yet (looks interesting), so just guessing. On the track running Minihost, sends and receives, make sure Master/Parent send is unchecked.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:52 PM   #3
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Thanks for your reply!

Minihost Modular is absolutely interesting, but only exists as a beta version at this time and is still a little buggy.

It seems like the master/parent send option switches on/off audio to master AFTER it has passed the tracks FXs. So it also disables the sound from the VSTis output to master.
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Old 04-23-2014, 01:08 PM   #4
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From my experience w/Reaper, any vsti that allows audio to enter will also pass the dry signal unfortunately. You'd need an effect version for it to be only heard thru the plugin.

I haven't tried the Image Line thing, don't know if they plan to release an effect version as well, (is there already one?)
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:20 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunBeerRun View Post
From my experience w/Reaper, any vsti that allows audio to enter will also pass the dry signal unfortunately. You'd need an effect version for it to be only heard thru the plugin.

I haven't tried the Image Line thing, don't know if they plan to release an effect version as well, (is there already one?)
Aha, thanks. There is no effect-version available at the moment, but they plan to make one because of this (this problem applies to some other software as well). But then I wonder if an effect version will be able to receive midi notes. I assume this is no problem since I recently had a problem with midinotes messing up how an effect worked.
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:47 AM   #6
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I thought that Modular Minihost had audio and MIDI inputs. Looking at the help page, anyway.

I tried the idea out using XT2 VSTi, with MIDI and audio on the Reaper track and a synth and FX inside XT2. If I drop the audio level inside XT2 I do not hear anything, so there is no dry signal in parallel with the FX.

Double-check that the Wet/Dry knob in the Modular Minihost FX window is set to 100% wet.

Or it may be that Modular Minihost is passing on the dry audio when it shouldn't.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
I thought that Modular Minihost had audio and MIDI inputs. Looking at the help page, anyway.

I tried the idea out using XT2 VSTi, with MIDI and audio on the Reaper track and a synth and FX inside XT2. If I drop the audio level inside XT2 I do not hear anything, so there is no dry signal in parallel with the FX.

Double-check that the Wet/Dry knob in the Modular Minihost FX window is set to 100% wet.

Or it may be that Modular Minihost is passing on the dry audio when it shouldn't.
Yes, Minihost modular has midi and audio in and out. It does not have a dry/wet knob. When I connect the input directly to the output and adjust the volume up and down inside minihost, the volume increases and decreases, but the sound does not disappear even if I disconnect the output from the input inside minihost. There is always some audio passing.

I don't think minihost passes dry signal because it seems to work in other daws.

Edit:
From the discussion about this on IL forums:


"NAS_ wrote:
I will repeat again, just for you
Reaper X64
renoise X64
Maschine X64

In fact any host but FLS always passes audio when loaded as an effect"

"IL Dan_wrote (developer):
I've found why. Basically Reaper has a different way of handling the VST whether it's a "synth" (VSTi) or "effect" (VST), whereas other hosts such as Ableton or FL don't care. In Reaper, the audio from a track is passed "in parallel" to the VSTi (so bypassing it), but also routed into it, a thing which I find weird tbh. Anyway, because of this, I made out of Minihost Modular a VST and a VSTi version, so problem solved. You'd use the VST (not VSTi as before) version in Reaper."

Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:18 AM   #8
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Sorry, I meant the Dry/Wet control in Reaper's FX chain window, above the FX GUI:



I've just read IL Dan's comments - I'll try with VST and VSTi versions later.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:54 AM   #9
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OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.

When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.

So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.

XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.

When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.

So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.

XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.
Ok!

But in my case, the audio goes into minihost as it should and out again, but audio is also bypassed. It sounds like 50% goes each way.

I have checked the dry/wet-knob in Reaper and it was set to 100%.

Edit: Problem solved, see my latest post.

Last edited by osflaa; 04-24-2014 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
OK, I tried my test above using a VST version and that was fine.

When I tried with the XT2 VSTi version I saw the same problem as you reported - the audio does not get into XT2 VSTi. I had to add an "Audio In" module to XT2, but that input was not reflected in Reaper's FX Chain [In / Out] button.

So, as far a Reaper is concerned the plug-in does not have an audio input. Either XT2 is not telling Reaper that it now has an audio input, or Reaper is not listening.

XT2 VST loads with [2 in / 2 out] so that works as expected.

Have a look at this if you have the time:

http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...m/Minihost.avi

Edit: Problem solved, see my latest post.

Last edited by osflaa; 04-25-2014 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:29 AM   #12
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I have found that IL have included a VST-version in the latest Minihost installer (I didn't know it was there because the installer did not place the VST-version in the VST-folders, I had to look it up in the installation folder). When I use this instead of the VSTi-version, it works fine with no audio bypassing it :-)
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:59 AM   #13
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K, great!

Does this thing actually do anything that Reaper can't do on its own? I mean... a VST host with a bunch of routing options...
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
K, great!

Does this thing actually do anything that Reaper can't do on its own? I mean... a VST host with a bunch of routing options...
Well, probably not. But it's very easy to make and understand even complex routing of audio, events and automation between VSTs. And you can see the actual signal flow (both audio, events and automation) so it's very easy to see if everythink works as it should. So I would say the visualization makes the workflow far better in some cases.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:52 AM   #15
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Yes, it's MUCH easier to see what's going on (and make sure you've got it right )



The Reaper equivalent of the above:

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/t2oVQv1.png

and you can package up complex combos of instruments and FX, and they appear as a simple plug-in to Reaper.
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Old 04-24-2014, 02:29 PM   #16
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I have attached a picture that shows an example of how Minihost can be used. It has 1 midi event in (green) which goes parallell to 3 layered synths, 5 automation envelopes in (red) that goes to synths/effects and 1 audio out (yellow). The connections "pulses" when it flows a signal through it. You can adjust volume/mute directly on each connection.

This setup is only one FX in one track (with 5 automation envelopes) in Reaper.

http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...m/Minihost.jpg

Edit 1:
Minihost has many similarities to Patcher, a native plugin in FL Studio. If you have the creative and technical skills (and time), you can use it to make plugins out of other plugins. Plugins such as XY-controller, Peak controller, Formula controller etc give a lot of opportunities. In the attached example, one IL forum member has made a Transient shaper plugin out of a bunch of other plugins (and believe it or not, it works very well). One picture shows the operation panel, the other shows the plugins and connections behind.

http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...er_surface.jpg

http://www.lydopptak.no/fornedlastin...atcher_map.jpg

Edit 2:
Also, in Minihost you can place piano rolls whereever you want in the midi event paths. You can then, by recording or drawing with the mouse, create complex arpeggios or loops you want specific synths/samplers to play just by pressing one note. Also you can make graph modules which lets you make sub maps, represented as one plugin in the top level map.

Last edited by osflaa; 04-25-2014 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:45 AM   #17
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Out of interest, what VST(i) parameters does Minihost publish to Reaper?

-- all the parameters of the included plug-ins?
-- an assignable subset of those parameters?
-- real names or arbitrary names?
-- or ... ?
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Old 04-25-2014, 04:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Out of interest, what VST(i) parameters does Minihost publish to Reaper?

-- all the parameters of the included plug-ins?
-- an assignable subset of those parameters?
-- real names or arbitrary names?
-- or ... ?
It does not publish any parameter before you add an input/output node. The red nodes (have a look at the picture in my previous post) are automation nodes and the green nodes are event nodes.
- If you choose to add a event node, you give it a name and select hardware I/O 1-30.
- If you select automation node, you give it a name, select I/O-type midi or automation. If midi, then you select midi channel 1-16 and controller CC 0-127. If automation, then you select parameter 0-199.

The plugin parameter name will not be visible in Reaper (I think) because every parameter in Minihost can control as many plugin parameters as you want.

But I'm new to this plugin so I have not tested all this.
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