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05-19-2017, 11:15 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,333
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v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
+ VST3: IContextInfoHandler2/IContextInfoProvider2 support
+ Windows: support receiving ASIO overload notifications
# Automation items: add option to trim existing items behind edited items
# Automation items: edits to unselected items do not affect selected items when other pooled items are affected [p=1843967]
# Automation items: fix item length after re-looping [p=1843705]
# Automation items: fix undo after closing automation item properties dialog [p=1843695]
# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]
# Automation items: ignore "edits affect pooled copies" option when copying
# Automation items: improve "collect points" behavior when editing pooled automation items
# Automation items: improve ripple editing behavior
# Preferences: add "trim content behind media items when editing" to Preferences/Project/Media item defaults
# Video: try to open .aac files with video decoders
Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
I was using great script by Edgemeal to create this changelog. The link: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/30246/Reape...%20Release.zip
Last edited by vitalker; 05-19-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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05-19-2017, 11:32 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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How should AIs work with VCAs and "Envelope: apply all VCAs to selected tracks and remove from VCA groups" when an AI is on the VCA track?
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05-19-2017, 11:57 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
+ VST3: IContextInfoHandler2/IContextInfoProvider2 support
+ Windows: support receiving ASIO overload notifications
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awesome! So maybe someone could script a marker to drop in places where this might have happened
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05-19-2017, 01:18 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Creating new pooled AI's is broken with "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on.
- Create AI with option-left drag (macOS) (draw a pooled copy of the selected automation item)
- Select created AI
- Create AI with option-left drag (macOS) (draw a pooled copy of the selected automation item)
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05-19-2017, 01:25 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Collect points with "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on gives different results depending on what was selected last!
Easy-replication:
- Create an AI on a Volume Track (1)
- Create a pooled copy of (1) starting at the same time on a Pan Track
- Collect Left (Cmd-left drag macOS).
- Alternate this process after selecting the 'other ai' once.
- Try this process after selecting back and forth manually.
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05-19-2017, 01:30 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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With "edits affect all pooled automation items at the same time position" on, Collecting points only can collect the bottom AI.
Gif should be self-explanatory.
This may not be strictly a bug per-se, however I think the expectation would be that the selected, or acted upon, AI is what consumes the envelope.
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05-19-2017, 01:38 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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When writing automation manually, if the written automation crosses an AI boundary, then the automation seems to almost always be written 1-2 points "late" to the AI.
The gif doesn't show an example where it's particularly problematic, however there are times when that automation point that ends up 'under' the AI is a vital part of a complex motion.
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05-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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#8
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Regarding posts 5 and 6, maybe the best solution is for the "affects all pooled automation items" option not to apply to the "collect points" mouse modifier?
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05-19-2017, 01:43 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=25
^^
This behaviour still exists. How points can be moved relative to other points depends on the current snap to grid setting.
This appears to be a regression, since 5.40 behaves sensibly.
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05-19-2017, 01:44 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Regarding posts 5 and 6, maybe the best solution is for the "affects all pooled automation items" option not to apply to the "collect points" mouse modifier?
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That seems reasonable. It seems like it's a lot of source of headaches.
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05-19-2017, 01:52 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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While checking old bugs... I ran in to this guy again: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...7&postcount=46
However this time I saved the project with undo history. It is attached to this post.
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05-19-2017, 01:53 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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This still happens consistently: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...4&postcount=47
Related:
When splitting overlapping items, sometimes AIs get oddly re-ordered. Sometimes they do not.
Last edited by Robert Randolph; 05-19-2017 at 01:58 PM.
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05-19-2017, 02:01 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Splitting an AI makes a pooled copy.
Media items and Midi items do not do this. Is that intentional?
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05-19-2017, 02:09 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ASU`ogacihC
Posts: 3,913
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Simple item copy to a new track with "points move with items" was working in Pre8, broken in Pre9...
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05-19-2017, 02:54 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 5,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
v5.50pre9 - May 19 2017
+ Transport: new option to flash transport status yellow on possible audio device underrun
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Hallelujah !
Many thanks for this Cockos !
For the ones interested in this option:
I noticed this option can be found by right-clicking in the time indicator area of the Transport Bar.
It seems, by default, the option is now turned OFF. (great !).
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05-19-2017, 04:12 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
# Video: try to open .aac files with video decoders
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Thanks.
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05-19-2017, 05:36 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 3,793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze
For the ones interested in this option:
I noticed this option can be found by right-clicking in the time indicator area of the Transport Bar.
It seems, by default, the option is now turned OFF. (great !).
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Thanks, I was wondering where to find it (checked device settings but no dice).
__________________
FRs: v5 Media Explorer Requests, Global Quantization, Session View
Win10 Pro 64-bit, Reaper 6(x64), AMD 3950x, Aorus X570 Master, 64GB DDR4 3600, PowerColor Red Devil 5700XT, EVO 970 2TB, 10TB HD, Define R6
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05-19-2017, 10:37 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]
Gutted, i was hoping this mean't we could select points inside an automation item and run actions, this badly needs adding
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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05-20-2017, 06:48 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
# Automation items: fix uneditable points in looped items [p=1843639]
Gutted, i was hoping this mean't we could select points inside an automation item and run actions, this badly needs adding
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To elaborate, here's a list of non-script actions that don't seem to work on points in AIs:
- Envelope: Copy points within time selection (Copies the AI, not the points)
- Envelope: Copy selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
- Envelope: Cut points within time selection (Cuts the AI, not the points)
- Envelope: Cut selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
SWS/BR actions largely don't work correctly. I haven't found any that do in a quick look.
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05-20-2017, 06:58 AM
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#20
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
While checking old bugs
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Finally fixed this one, thanks for including the undo history!
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05-20-2017, 07:01 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Collecting points leaves an 'edge point' of the AI behind.
- Collect points with AI over existing envelope points (edge-left drag macOS)
- Move AI to reveal underlying envelope
The collection action seems to create a new edge point that's added to both the AI and the underlying envelope.
Option-left drag to consume points with a new AI acts like I'd expect.
I understand that the AI needs a new point added when collecting, but the underlying envelope should not get that point.
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05-20-2017, 07:08 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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The mouse modifier "Move automation items relative to other selected items" is available as a left-drag option.
If this is intentional, then it doesn't work.
Shouldn't this be for the "Automation Item" context?
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05-20-2017, 07:17 AM
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#23
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
The mouse modifier "Move automation items relative to other selected items" is available as a left-drag option.
If this is intentional, then it doesn't work.
Shouldn't this be for the "Automation Item" context?
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You need at least 3 selected items at different positions for this to have an effect.
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05-20-2017, 07:25 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
If layered, they are handled as two envelopes in series.
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There's still an 'issue' when any AI has an -Inf value. All other envelopes values are cancelled. Previously reported here: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=21
This is a problem because when mouse-editing, even on a high-res monitor with a very large envelope lane, the lowest value you can drag to is about -50dbFS before it snaps to -inf.
It's also easy to end up with a -inf value when using external controllers. Possible to even end up cancelling out all your overlapped envelopes when writing data in the Latch automation mode!
I don't know what the suggested behaviour is, however there's been probably a dozen times where I thought my envelope was bugged because an -inf value ended up on an overlapped AI.
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05-20-2017, 07:29 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
You need at least 3 selected items at different positions for this to have an effect.
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I suggest trying this with various selections of 3+ items. It doesn't work consistently at all.
I've only found 1 case where it actually does something: when right-edge editing 3 overlapping items at different times. Any other selection of 3+ items does something different.
I can make another gif of various selections of 3+ items if you'd like.
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05-20-2017, 07:37 AM
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#26
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
There's still an 'issue' when any AI has an -Inf value. All other envelopes values are cancelled.
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That's the intended behavior. Imagine that you have two volume faders in a row. If either of the faders is at -inf, the output should be silent.
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05-20-2017, 07:38 AM
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#27
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
I suggest trying this with various selections of 3+ items. It doesn't work consistently at all.
I've only found 1 case where it actually does something: when right-edge editing 3 overlapping items at different times. Any other selection of 3+ items does something different.
I can make another gif of various selections of 3+ items if you'd like.
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Please do illustrate cases where it doesn't work as expected.
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05-20-2017, 07:50 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
That's the intended behavior. Imagine that you have two volume faders in a row. If either of the faders is at -inf, the output should be silent.
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I think the issue is how easy it is to end up with -inf values in envelopes.
It's totally fine with the current envelope system, but with overlapping AIs it gets rather confusing.
Take this example:
- In the first example with the Parametric LFO at an amplitude of 100; my highest value of the combine envelope is -1.82dbFS. My lowest value is a huge jump down to -inf. The visual representation of a modulated sine is not what's being rendered.
- In the first example with the Parametric LFO at an amplitude of 99; my highest value of the combine envelope is -1.86dbFS. My lowest value is -46.2dbFS. The visual representation of a modulated sine is intact.
So I won't beat this to death, but I wish to restate that I understand the logical idea behind this. However, the resulting behaviour is unintuitive and can cause unexpected behaviour that's difficult to track down.
Thank you for humouring me in this specific topic.
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05-20-2017, 08:03 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
Please do illustrate cases where it doesn't work as expected.
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Ok, so I guess I'm misunderstanding how this is supposed to work here or something. It only works if you left-drag the right most or left most selected item.
I think this is my mistake then. The name of the command doesn't make much sense to me.
---
However, there is a visual bug when you do this...
Edit: This is not just a visual bug. The AI's don't work at all when they overlap the envelope!
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05-20-2017, 08:09 AM
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#30
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Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
So I won't beat this to death, but I wish to restate that I understand the logical idea behind this.
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With respect .. this behavior is intended and, I believe, preferable to any alternative. -46dbFS to -inf is not actually a huge jump. That change represents the equivalent movement on the volume fader as going from +0.0 to +0.01. In amplitude terms, -46dbFS is one-half of one percent of full scale. So, it's an expected result when changing the LFO amplitude by one percent. I think we are now beating this to death
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05-20-2017, 08:53 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
To elaborate, here's a list of non-script actions that don't seem to work on points in AIs:
- Envelope: Copy points within time selection (Copies the AI, not the points)
- Envelope: Copy selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
- Envelope: Cut points within time selection (Cuts the AI, not the points)
- Envelope: Cut selected points (Copies oddly. Paste is done oddly)
SWS/BR actions largely don't work correctly. I haven't found any that do in a quick look.
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There are no actions that work on selected points within in an AI, it is a terribly flawed design, this is going to annoy a lot of people in use.
Having to slice an AI to run actions on it is just bizarre (Edit, i mistyped here, i meant having to create a time selection)
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
Last edited by Win Conway; 05-21-2017 at 12:57 PM.
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05-20-2017, 09:55 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
There are no actions that work on selected points within in an AI, it is a terribly flawed design, this is going to annoy a lot of people in use.
Having to slice an AI to run actions on it is just bizarre
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I don't think that's correct. I tried literally every envelope point action when writing that post. The only ones that didn't work were what I listed.
Can you give a specific example?
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05-20-2017, 10:49 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 923
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copy paste unlooped automation item with start offset.
https://goo.gl/LTf3au
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05-20-2017, 05:15 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
I don't think that's correct. I tried literally every envelope point action when writing that post. The only ones that didn't work were what I listed.
Can you give a specific example?
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No point actions work on selected points within an automation item, they only work on selected automation items, so i cant select half the points inside an automation item and run the reduce points action for instance.
It will reduce the points of the entire automation item.
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Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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05-21-2017, 08:16 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
No point actions work on selected points within an automation item, they only work on selected automation items, so i cant select half the points inside an automation item and run the reduce points action for instance.
It will reduce the points of the entire automation item.
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Those commands don't work on selected points outside AIs either though. They apply to the whole envelope.
So I assume that working on the whole AI is intended.
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05-21-2017, 12:55 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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My point is (Pun fully intended) that it is a flawed design, just because the original automation system had a flaw, does it mean we should carry it through to the new system ?
You can run the reduce action only in time selection, which is bad UX, most people will expect to just make a point selection, not have to make a time selection.
I am not sure why these features are considered strange, it just makes sense, select points, run point actions on only those points, no points selected, run point action on selected automation item or selected envelope lane if no automation item selected or present.
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
Last edited by Win Conway; 05-21-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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05-21-2017, 02:02 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
My point is (Pun fully intended) that it is a flawed design, just because the original automation system had a flaw, does it mean we should carry it through to the new system ?
You can run the reduce action only in time selection, which is bad UX, most people will expect to just make a point selection, not have to make a time selection.
I am not sure why these features are considered strange, it just makes sense, select points, run point actions on only those points, no points selected, run point action on selected automation item or selected envelope lane if no automation item selected or present.
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I think you'd get a better response if you phrased your request more thoroughly.
The issue isn't that a bunch of actions don't work on AIs (since many DO work), it's that you want 2 specific actions to work differently than they do currently.
So it seems that the request is that it would be very useful to have the 2 following actions:
- Envelope: Reduce number of points in selected points
- Envelope: Reduce number of selected points by half
And perhaps to have the current commands to be renamed to indicate that they work on the whole AI/envelope or time selection.
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05-22-2017, 10:09 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 880
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Not a bug, but a request:
It's rather difficult to grab a point when it's in the lower right or lower left of an AI. There's 4 possible zones here and they are really close together.
A large part of the issue is that the cursor changes make it difficult to know where the cursor is pointing so you can adjust to find the envelope point.
I do not have a suggestion for how to improve this, but it's been very annoying to deal with when using AIs in actual production.
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05-22-2017, 10:14 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill
awesome! So maybe someone could script a marker to drop in places where this might have happened
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Yes! Please ☺👍🍺
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05-22-2017, 03:01 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph
I think you'd get a better response if you phrased your request more thoroughly.
The issue isn't that a bunch of actions don't work on AIs (since many DO work), it's that you want 2 specific actions to work differently than they do currently.
So it seems that the request is that it would be very useful to have the 2 following actions:
- Envelope: Reduce number of points in selected points
- Envelope: Reduce number of selected points by half
And perhaps to have the current commands to be renamed to indicate that they work on the whole AI/envelope or time selection.
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Erm no
All point based actions should run how i previously stated.
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