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Old 03-17-2015, 11:16 AM   #1
DarkStar
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Default Tool to help when sampling instruments

Is this of interest (to you samplers)?

One of the tasks needed when sampling a VSTi or synth is to send a range of notes at a range of velocities and record the audio output of each note. This JS FX helps (a bit).



(the above shows the MIDI 0utput)

Select:
-- the range of note pitches, the interval between the note pitches,
-- the note length and the rest length between notes,
-- the range of velocities and the number of layers,
-- *NEW* the number of repeats of each trigger note
-- and the note MIDI channel.

RecArm your recording track, click Record and the JS FX starts running, sending the first note on the next beat.

And the result (for 7 notes, at 4 velocities)?



Ready for slicing in your favourite sample player.

-------------------------------
Edit: JS FX now attached
(Post #4)How to install a JS FX

NoteGen2_DS.txt has the new "Repeats" feature.
Attached Files
File Type: txt NoteGen_DS.txt (8.8 KB, 203 views)
File Type: txt NoteGen2_DS.txt (9.4 KB, 147 views)
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:41 PM   #2
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hmmm interesting DS...

Now personally for doing things like this I use Extreme Sample Converter [ESC]

It will do this and save the result to separate named files in a folder of your choice...

It will do this with [for example] a mix of two diff VSTi's making the output sound for the wav's.

Now no slight to your JS... I can certainly see where it would be nice to use inside reaper to make a few samples that can be then dragged and dropped into say Kontakt.... so you have my full support!
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Old 03-18-2015, 06:23 AM   #3
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Yes! Would use!
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:23 AM   #4
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Oh yes DS, that would be handy. Or maybe more handsfree even, but anyways.
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:47 AM   #5
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This is my veeeery old script for slicing notes which are 1 bar length to individual files. I've used it when sample Access Virus Ti sounds back in the days.

https://stash.reaper.fm/manage_file/2...ling%20tool.py
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Old 03-18-2015, 12:19 PM   #6
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Fixed the link:
https://stash.reaper.fm/23672/Sampling%20tool.py
^^^
Can you make the slice length definable (and EELify that)?
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:16 AM   #7
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... released version now in the first post.
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Old 03-19-2015, 07:25 AM   #8
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Yeah, this script is very funny inside. Its one of my first attempt in ReaScript. I probably could make it much more elegant now. But hey it still works
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:02 AM   #9
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And here is a run-through.

1 Sampling
-- load NoteGen_DS on one track and the target VSTi (LinPlug's AlphaFree in this case) on another,
-- Send the MIDI from the first track to the second, and RecArm (Audio Output) the second,
-- set the NoteGen_DS controls and the VSTi controls as desired,
-- click Record ...
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/HlWmn3H.png

2 Slicing
-- load the recording into your sample (CWITEC's TX16Wx in this case),
-- trim the sample and slice it (here I know I have 9 notes at 4 velocities = 36 slices),
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/drgluYS.png

3 Mapping
-- drag the slices into the Keyboard Mapper and ungroup them (so that they are independent),
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/nNXTNfN.png

-- set the velocity layers for each slice,
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/5wONqRX.png

-- arrange them on the root keys
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/aL7lOvJ.png

-- expand them into contiguous zones
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/LdDGjm2.png

-- Group them, if needed
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/8A5NNh8.png

Add Group Sound Controls, Instrument FX etc. Save your completed instrument.

--------------------------
Edit:
This may not work completely satisfactorily. I think that the recording needs to be sliced and each slice separately normalised, then each slice can be imported into the sampler. Investigations continue.
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Old 03-21-2015, 07:20 AM   #10
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Any comments, before I release an upgraded version?

-- choice or order: all the velocities for one note then move to the next note, or, all the notes for one velocity then move to the next velocity,
-- display the number of samples to be triggered
-- display the length of the recording (for subsequent trimming).
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Old 03-21-2015, 08:17 AM   #11
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For some reason I cannot get just a single (max.) velocity trigger per note? It seems that min. velocity is always at least one lower than high and there's always at least two triggers per note. Note Step doesn't seem to do anything in this regard? Also, both velocity values (Low and High Velocity settings) will go well over the normal values if typed into the fields?

Other than that, it works here. Thanks DS.
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Old 03-21-2015, 12:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
For some reason I cannot get just a single (max.) velocity trigger per note? It seems that min. velocity is always at least one lower than high and there's always at least two triggers per note.
That's by design

Try changing these lines:
Code:
    old_s8 != slider8 ? ( old_s8 = slider8; slider9 = max(slider9, slider8 +1); );
    old_s9 != slider9 ? ( old_s9 = slider9; slider8 = min(slider8, slider9 -1); );
to
Code:
    old_s8 != slider8 ? ( old_s8 = slider8; slider9 = max(slider9, slider8); );
    old_s9 != slider9 ? ( old_s9 = slider9; slider8 = min(slider8, slider9); );
and change the slider8 definition from 126 to 127
and let me know if that works for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Also, both velocity values (Low and High Velocity settings) will go well over the normal values if typed into the fields?
That's JS FX for you , there is no automatic check of a typed value against the slider definition. I will add some checks.
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Old 03-21-2015, 02:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
-- choice or order: all the velocities for one note then move to the next note, or, all the notes for one velocity then move to the next velocity,
For me... no need for choice. All velocities for one note then move to the next, would make most sense. What would be great would be to have it automatically shift track to record on when moving to next note, but I guess that is beyond JSFX capabilities.
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Old 03-21-2015, 02:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
That's by design

Try changing these lines:
Thanks for the code tip DS. Actually I didn't have to go in there yet. I noticed that if the Velocity Step is set to any other value than 1, there will only be one trigger when the Low and High velocities are set one apart.

Quote:
That's JS FX for you , there is no automatic check of a typed value against the slider definition. I will add some checks.
Haha, well, thanks for looking into that. Not a biggie in this case, just something I noticed.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:44 AM   #15
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New version (a08) in first post:
  • checks typed-in values to be within range
  • removed min range check for velocities
  • displays the number of note samples requested
  • displays the number of audio samples recorded (for clip trimming)
  • can select order of generation, all the velocities for each note,
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . or, all the notes for each velocity
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:52 PM   #16
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Not that I or anybody should, but I can still type unreasonably high numbers into Low and High Velocity fields and apparently the Note Generator will try to obey. Sliders work fine as well as the rest of it. This is a neat tool, thanks DS.

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Old 03-24-2015, 01:38 AM   #17
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Oops, that'll teach me to remember about using non-sequential sliders. I got the slider numbers wrong in the early part of @slider.

New version (a09) in the first post.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:48 AM   #18
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Great, it works and invalid values are not accepted anymore. Thanks again DS.
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:27 AM   #19
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DS just getting to play with the latest version... couple things

I don't seem to get it to record the midi notes... can you give me a step by step to set that up plz?

I do get the audio out OK on it's own track...

Now I notice someting about the velo step setting... as it is now, one has to 'do da maff'.... in other words lets say we have a min velo of 60 and a max of 127, and then we want to really end up with notes that are 4 velocity layers... why not just have the velo steps slider show that? Set it to 4 and get just 4 velo layers of each note... This would seem to me to make more sense, no???
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
a min velo of 60 and a max of 127, and then we want to really end up with notes that are 4 velocity layers
Not 100% sure what you mean - perhaps:
range = 127 - 60 = 67;
noof_layers = 4;
velocity_step = (67+1) / (4-1) = 22.66;
so the resulting note velocities are 60, 83, 105, 127 (rounded)
or would the velocities be 69, 86, 103, 120?
or ... ?
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Old 03-24-2015, 09:33 PM   #21
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Ok thanks DS got the routing now ... silly me

however on the velo steps, let me try to explain from a diff pov

I'd want the plugin to do the 'thinking' for me, in that it and I have a conversation like so:

I tell it from note to note and the length of the note and the pause between... all good

then I want to just tell it, "make me 4 [or whatever] velo 'layers' [I think of them as layers cuz I use kontakt]... so rather than saying 'make the steps in velo some amount, instead I tell it how many velo layers I want for each note... is that making sense?

Then it does the calculation as to how to split those 'steps' to give me the number of layers I want... based on the starting low velo and ending hi velo.

So I give it a request and it does the rest of the 'thinking'....
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:37 PM   #22
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This is, no doubt, a naive question, but why would you *want* to sample a VSTi in this way? Just curious as to what this is for, I mean, if you already have a midi programmable VSTi...?
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
t, instead I tell it how many velo layers I want for each note... is that making sense?

Then it does the calculation as to how to split those 'steps' to give me the number of layers I want... based on the starting low velo and ending hi velo.
Almost making sense, can you give me a couple of examples, along the lines of the one I posted above? (Also, what do others think?)
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:24 AM   #24
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The calc is easy:

127 / n = v1

then a looping calculation that adds the outcome to itself until 128 (allows for rounding errors), each time assigning it to v2 and above.

so for 13 velocity layers:

127 / 13 = 9.77 = v1

19.54 = v2
29.31 = v3

etc

velocity range is done by subtracting both the min value and the max reduction value from the velocity of 127 e.g. between 20 and 100 = 80

then all final velocity values have 20 added to them.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Waster View Post
This is, no doubt, a naive question, but why would you *want* to sample a VSTi in this way? Just curious as to what this is for, I mean, if you already have a midi programmable VSTi...?
I can only speak for myself, but will give you one possible example:

However, what I use to do this is Extreme Sample Converter ver.3.6 which makes it really easy and very automatic once you get the drift of how to use it.

Ok ... forget 'sampling a VSTi'... but instead think about sampling two or more VSTi's that you tweak and combine into one sound... and you would like to turn that sound into something like a Kontakt [or other sampler] instrument.

It can be fun.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:40 AM   #26
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DS ...I think Fergler understands what I'm saying... and he seems to have explained the math that the plugin could be doing.

Clearly it would have to do the rounding but that is fine.

Still, I'll 'splain it again just for fun:

Let's say I want to make just a one note sample, C3...
...and I want it to have 4 velocity 'layers'
...and I want the lowest velocity to be 50
...and the highest to be 125
...and the note length to be 1 full measure.
...and the rest between notes to be 1 full measure

OK so I would enter all those values as the JSFX asks for them, BUT when it comes to the 'velocity steps'... I would enter 4 and the plugin code would do the math by using all the other entered values.

It would calculate whatever the 'step' value that fit the situation would be...

Sorry but really the best way I could explain it would be how ESC does it...
In that you specify a range of notes, and then also the number of what it calls velocity splits you want. Admittedly it is diff than your nice JSFX, but it will run automatically and give you a folder of wav files, one for each note name and velo split. Maybe there is still a demo around... I'll try to find one.

PS Ok there IS a demo:

http://www.extranslator.com/index.php?page=demo
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:25 AM   #27
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OK, so taking Fergler's example, there are 13 layers and the note velocity is at the top end of each layer. That is what I was asking for.

Quote:
range = 127 - 0 = 127;
noof_layers = 13;
velocity_step = 127 / 13 = 9.77;
so the resulting note velocities are 10, 20, 29, 39, 49, 59, 68, 78, 88, 98, 107, 117 and 127 (rounded)
or
Quote:
range = 100 - 20 = 80;
noof_layers = 13;
velocity_step = 80 / 13 = 6.15;
so the resulting note velocities are 26, 32, 38, 45, 51, 57, 63, 69, 75, 82, 88, 94 and 100 (rounded)
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:34 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Waster View Post
This is, no doubt, a naive question, but why would you *want* to sample a VSTi in this way? Just curious as to what this is for, I mean, if you already have a midi programmable VSTi...?
I've never understood that either, until I was working on a track with a main piano pattern, that consisted of 5 layered vstis with (each) ~9 voice polyphony, which slowed the session down to the point where it was very frustrating to further work on the track.

Since I wanted to be able to tweak the piano chords, multisampling was the perfect solution.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:32 AM   #29
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New version (a10) in first post:
  • select the number of layers required, instead of the velocity step
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Old 03-28-2015, 09:10 PM   #30
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Thanks DS... you are not only kind and generous but also wise indeed!

PS... I like it! just had another thought... so we have 'running' and 'stopped'... might there be a way to [at least optionally] have the transport and rec. stop when the JSFX has finished a given set of notes?

say we set it to make whole notes, with whole note rests and make 4 velo layers for them... for oh say, 3 octaves... we could go off and grab a quickie [err... cookie...] and let it stop automatically after it makes the last note and rest... or even just after the last note.

good idea? can it even be done?

[coding dummy here, you know]
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:16 AM   #31
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'Fraid not - JS FX cannot tell the transport what to do.

I'll add a 'Recording length (bars) display to the next version.
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post

I'll add a 'Recording length (bars) display to the next version.


Any chance this is still being updated?
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:11 AM   #33
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I'd forgotten about this.

I did the change back in March - it is now in the first post (it is version a11)
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:34 AM   #34
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Thanks so much!
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Old 10-17-2019, 06:01 AM   #35
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Just found this, looking forward to trying it!
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:05 AM   #36
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I can't get this to work in Reaper anymore. I think something is wrong with the routing. Could you please be kind and give a follow up step by step on how to route the tracks?

Right now, I've followed the post above and thought it's right but I'm HEARING the sampling happen for testing this but it's not REC the audio and midi at all.

Any thoughts what I am wrong with?`
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:00 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
I can't get this to work in Reaper anymore. I think something is wrong with the routing. Could you please be kind and give a follow up step by step on how to route the tracks?

Right now, I've followed the post above and thought it's right but I'm HEARING the sampling happen for testing this but it's not REC the audio and midi at all.

Any thoughts what I am wrong with?`
Working fine here.
Do you have record output set on your vst track?

Did you press record? It will play when you press play and not record.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:04 AM   #38
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Default Request - add multiple note outputs for round robin creation

Darkstar,

Can you add an option to trigger more notes per note?

I want to capture an external synth, I want to do a few round robins.
Maybe a slider dropdown for multiple notes per note.

Meaning play c3, each velocity 3 times?

Thanks for the great tool!
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Old 10-18-2019, 07:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Working fine here.
Do you have record output set on your vst track?

Did you press record? It will play when you press play and not record.
yes I pressed record and I can hear the notes being played automatically yet nothing is truly being recorded onto the track. thus my need for a smart person to please tell me the routing in easy steps
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Old 10-18-2019, 08:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Darkstar,

Can you add an option to trigger more notes per note?

I want to capture an external synth, I want to do a few round robins.
Maybe a slider dropdown for multiple notes per note.

Meaning play c3, each velocity 3 times?

Thanks for the great tool!
I'll have a look - it was several years ago!

Edit: some progress, but dropping some notes:
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Last edited by DarkStar; 10-18-2019 at 09:00 AM. Reason: added screenshot
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